Take the NIV Challenge

[fragmentsofdreams]

Originally posted by Jephunneh
I said that? huh? Where would that be?



John 6:47--

"47. I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life." NIV

"47.Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." KJV

Believes what? Isn't 'on me' clearer? I 'believe' that it is going to rain so I'm saved.

It is irrelevent whether it is clearer or not. Adding to Scripture is a grave sin that cannot be ignored because we like the modified version better.

 

[Jephunneh]

Salvation is a process in modern versions like the NIV.

When you read the following, please notice the straining
of the tenses:

Luke 13:23 (new versions), "Are there few who are being saved?"
KJV, "...be saved."

II Cor. 2:15 (new versions), "are being saved."
KJV, "are saved."

I Cor. 1:18 (new versions), "those who are perishing foolishness, but to us who are being saved"
KJV, ...are saved."

Acts 15:19 (new versions) "are turning to God."
KJV, "turned."

Luke 15:32 (new versions), "your brother was dead and has begun to live."
KJV, "is alive."

Acts 2:47 (new versions), "were being saved."
KJV, "should be saved."

2 Cor. 4:3 (new versions), "are perishing."
KJV, "are lost."

 

[kern]

Well gee, the Catholic Church has taught salvation as a process since before the KJV was written! Sounds to me like the newer versions got it right.

-Chris

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by Jephunneh
Salvation is a process in modern versions like the NIV.

And this is good, because to claim that it isn't contradicts the Bible. Why work out our salvation if it's already done? The Bible clearly speaks of working out salvation, of growing, of progressing; all of these things imply an ongoing process.

 

[Jephunneh]

Originally posted by kern
Well gee, the Catholic Church has taught salvation as a process since before the KJV was written! Sounds to me like the newer versions got it right.

-Chris

Now you're catching on.

Heb. 9:10--

"10. They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings-external regulations applying until the time of the new order." NIV

"10. Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation." KJV

No Greek word for 'new order'

 

[kern]

What do you mean "no greek word for 'new order'"? Are you intending this verse to refer to the Protestant reformation?

-Chris

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by Jephunneh
Now you're catching on.

Heb. 9:10--

"10. They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings-external regulations applying until the time of the new order." NIV

"10. Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation." KJV

No Greek word for 'new order'

I see! God carefully hid the truth of Christianity from *EVERYONE* until 1611. The apostles, tragically, had to be sacrificed; since the Reformation wasn't to come for around one and a half millennia, they had to go to Hell for not understanding the doctrine people would come up with in the future, when God's word was finally *corrected* by human editors to eliminate any possible confusions or ambiguities.

Very clever, that, hiding it in "plain sight" by providing a series of subtly incorrect "Bibles" and other documents, all waiting His inspiration of the translators of the KJV, whom He directed to add and alter material to give us His *real* message.

Very sneaky, that, what with all the stuff Jesus said *implying* that He was God's living Word, but now we know that He was just this guy, and it's the *Bible* that's God's Word.

 

[Apologist]

Originally posted by Jephunneh
I said that? huh? Where would that be?

John 6:47--

"47. I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life." NIV

"47.Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." KJV

Believes what? Isn't 'on me' clearer? I 'believe' that it is going to rain so I'm saved.

I'll let James White anser this question:

But does the accusation have merit? Not at all. The NASB and NIV are brimming with the phrase "believe in me." Just a few verses before John 6:47 (in v. 35), the NASB reads, "Jesus said to them, ‘I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst’" (emphasis added). And in the immediate context of John 6, v.40 reads, "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son, and believes in Him, may have eternal life; and I Myself will raise him up on the last day" (emphasis added). Other places in John where the phrase appears in modern translations include John 7:38, 11:25-26, 12:44, and 46. If the modern translations are trying to preach "another gospel," why do they include all these references that contradict this "other gospel"? What’s more, how do they explain the many places where the KJV has the simple phrase "believe," such as at Mark 9:23 and Romans 1:16 and 10:4? Is the KJV guilty of teaching "another gospel" because it does not have the specific phrase "in Him" or "in Christ" at these places? Of course not.

 

[The Thadman]

~In a Gimly dwarfish accent~

Jephunneh, if ya rrrespond to my points, I'll rrrespond ta yours!

Come let us reason

Shlomo! (Peace!)

 

[Ioustinos]

Originally posted by The Thadman
~In a Gimly dwarfish accent~

Jephunneh, if ya rrrespond to my points, I'll rrrespond ta yours!

Come let us reason

Shlomo! (Peace!)

I like the Gimly accent my friend, very nice


Be well


Jesaiah

PS. I can't wait until LOTR: The Return of the King

 

[Jephunneh]

Col. 2:8--

"8. See to it that no one takes you captive through hallow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ." NIV

"8. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ." KJV

This is being done today.

 

[kern]

"This is being done today"...by who?

And what does that have to do with KJV vs. NIV?

-Chris

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by Jephunneh
Col. 2:8--

"8. See to it that no one takes you captive through hallow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ." NIV

"8. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ." KJV

This is being done today.

Hmm. So, for instance, this would describe pursuing teachings over a personal relationship with God; for instance, maybe a church would teach people that they cannot know God except through some kind of special thing, like a book?

 

[Jephunneh]

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

Why would we be told to beware if not?



Col. 1:14--

"14. in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins." NIV

"14. In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Eph. 1:7-- His blood is not important, is it? Also Acts 20:28

 

[kern]

Originally posted by Jephunneh
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

Why would we be told to beware if not?

So who do you think this refers to? Any non-KJV church? Catholics?

Col. 1:14--

"14. in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins." NIV

"14. In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Eph. 1:7-- His blood is not important, is it? Also Acts 20:28

Apparently some scribe thought he needed to clarify God's Word by adding "through his blood" here -- as if this were the only place in the Bible where salvation and redemption are talked about.

-Chris

 

[Jephunneh]

"So who do you think this refers to? Any non-KJV church? Catholics?"
If YOUR phone is ringing, answer it.



Eph. 5:9--

"9.(for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth)NIV

"9.(For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truthKJV

Sounds pretty New Age, doesn't it? NIV- 'the light', KJV- 'the Spirit'

 

[seebs]

You know, you've never once responded to the questions asked about what makes you think one translation is *more accurate* than another. You're just saying which one you *like* better.

 

[Jephunneh]

[/B]Because of Gods Preservation of His words

The doctrine of Biblical preservation would demand the word of God
before 1611. I believe the word of God has never passed away from the time of its inception (Matt. 24:35).

"Where was it before 1611?" That I do not know. But then again, I do not know where the original autographs are either. And neither do you.

I do not have to have the preserved words from 325 AD, 870 AD or 1009 AD anymore than I have to have the original manuscripts in order to believe in Biblical preservation.

But we must have the preserved word of God without error TODAY if we are to believe in Biblical preservation. To misunderstand this point is to misrepresent the entire issue of the KJV. If argumentation is based on misunderstanding and misrepresentation, than there is no basis for an opposing position.[/B]





__________________
Job 26
2 How hast thou helped him that is without power? how savest thou the arm that hath no strength?
3 How hast thou counselled him that hath no wisdom? and how hast thou plentifully declared the thing as it is?
4 To whom hast thou uttered words? and whose spirit came from thee?
5 Dead things are formed from under the waters, and the inhabitants

 

[seebs]

You've posted this three times, and in each place it is only marginally relevant. Why don't you try again? You seem to have carefully ignored the question of why adding words to clarify is a kind of "preservation".

 

[Jephunneh]

I do not worship the KJV; we worship the Lord God. Nonetheless, I do have a high regard for the word of the Lord even as the Lord Himself does. In Psalm 138:2 the Bible says: "I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name." I do not think one could draw from this that God worships His word, but He does honor it above His own name. Even modern versions, such as the RSV, which change this passage recognize that the Hebrew reads just as it is translated in the KJV (see RSV footnote). Again, because of the honor and respect the Lord gives to His word, this is an issue of preservation.