Take the NIV Challenge

[Julie]

Hi Bsign24 and welcome to the forum!

 

[reeann]

10th January 2003 at 05:55 PM The Thadman said this in Post #54

I can't help but feel ignored


Shlomo! (Peace!)

don't feel ignored, some of us are reading.  I don't respond to things like this unless I feel lead too, and I have prayfully studied the same for myself.  But I find translations and manuscript evidence fascinating on an intellectual level.

On a spiritual level, to me they all say Jesus is our Saviour and we all need Him to be reconcilled to God.

 

[Singleman]

 I'm still new here, but I have discussed these matters with KJVOs elsewhere and won't get into it again now. It's always the same arguments and they always lead to a dead end. Often, the debates get heated and insulting. All I can add is that having studied the subject prayerfully I have a clear conscience before the Lord that the NASB, NIV, and NKJV are just as much the Word of God as the KJV is. We are not dependent on a particular version of the Bible for our salvation or our fellowship with the Lord.

 

[Jesusong]

A big hearty Amen to you singleman. I've also come to those exact same conclusions. Isn't it a wonderful thing that once an isssue is prayerfully settled in your heart how the Lord just lifts the burden off you as you begin to minister to others as you allow the Lord to use you you as He feels fit?

 

[Susan]

Yesterday at 05:13 PM Singleman said this in Post #123 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=698204#post698204)

 I'm still new here, but I have discussed these matters with KJVOs elsewhere and won't get into it again now. It's always the same arguments and they always lead to a dead end. Often, the debates get heated and insulting. All I can add is that having studied the subject prayerfully I have a clear conscience before the Lord that the NASB, NIV, and NKJV are just as much the Word of God as the KJV is. We are not dependent on a particular version of the Bible for our salvation or our fellowship with the Lord.

Good post. . .

 

[Julie]

God is supernatural, is He not? Did He have something to do with The King James Bible or nothing to do with it? Was God in any of it or completely divorced from it? Do you know for sure, when God moves or leads anyone to do anything? Has God led the modern translators supernaturally in correcting the KJB? Has He even led them influentially to correct the KJB? What is your proof or basis for saying so? Has God led you supernaturally to question the authority of the Authorized Version?

Ever learning, and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. -- 2 Tim. 3:7

 

[Jesusong]

Where to begin.....

God is supernatural, is He not? Did He have something to do with The King James Bible or nothing to do with it? Was God in any of it or completely divorced from it?

Yes God had something to do with the translation of the KJV, along with all of the other translations that came before, and after the KJV. We have to remember to keep in mind that a translation is not a re-inspiration of the original text which God gave to the original writers. The part God has in the translation of the text is the motivation He puts in the hearts of the translators who have a desire to give the word of God with more clarity and ease of understanding.

Has God led the modern translators supernaturally in correcting the KJB? Has He even led them influentially to correct the KJB? What is your proof or basis for saying so?

You make it sound like the the word of God begins and ends with the KJV. But lets go back to 1611, the year that the KJV came out and ask this, Has God led the KJV translators, (who btw, were then the modern translators of that time), to correct the the English Bibles that were in circulation at the time? The English Bibles that were being used at that time were the Geneva Bible, Bishop's Bible, Great Bible, to name a few. Has God even led them influentially to correct those Bibles? What is your proof or basis for saying so?

Has God led you supernaturally to question the authority of the Authorized Version?

Has God led you supernaturally to question the authority of the Bibles before the KJV, or the Bibles after the KJV?

 

[Julie]

The World's Fastest Bible Memory Plan
Guaranteed 100% success
Memorize 17 Bible verses in less than ten minutes!
You must use the New International Version!

 

Ladies and gentlemen, this amazing Bible memory program is by far and away the most amazing system ever developed. Even if you are a poor reader, or think you are too old to commit Bible verses to memory this plan will work for you.

 
First, you must have a New International Version bible. This memory plan is designed to work only with the NIV. As you follow this plan you will be amazed at how simple, easy to understand, and perfect for memory work the NIV will prove to be.

Second, turn in your NIV and see that you too can learn every word of these seventeen verses in less than ten minutes. Please click on each of the following Bible references HERE to see these verses from a New International Version! ( Check to Hide footnotes and
Hide cross-references)


Matthew 17:21
Matthew 18:11
Matthew 23:14
Mark 7:16
Mark 9:44
Mark 9:46 Mark 11:26
Mark 15:28
Luke 17:36
Luke 23:17
John 5:4
Acts 8:37 Acts 15:34
Acts 24:7
Acts 28:29
Romans 16:24
1 John 5:7 
  

  

 

How did you do? Wasn't that easy? Now memorize the following verses from the Authorized King James Bible and never forget them.

Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar (Proverbs 30:5-6).

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book (Revelation 22:18, 19).

 

[Susan]

A Guide To Being a KJV Only debater:

Ignore all contrary evidence-after all, the KJV says it's the only true version.

Don't directly answer anyone: only copy and paste totally irrelevant information.

If you're banned as one username for calling readers of other versions "Lucifer worshippers" or "new agers" (among the nicer terms used or implied) come back as a diffferent username and different gender.

 

[Julie]

Compair this piece of trash called the NIV with the KJV.

Who doesn't know what "cover his feet" means?  He was asleep, not relieving himself!

NIV

1 Samuel 24


David Spares Saul's Life

1 After Saul returned from pursuing the Philistines, he was told, "David is in the Desert of En Gedi." 2 So Saul took three thousand chosen men from all Israel and set out to look for David and his men near the Crags of the Wild Goats.
3 He came to the sheep pens along the way; a cave was there, and Saul went in to relieve himself. David and his men were far back in the cave. 4 The men said, "This is the day the LORD spoke of when he said to you, 'I will give your enemy into your hands for you to deal with as you wish.' " Then David crept up unnoticed and cut off a corner of Saul's robe.
5 Afterward, David was conscience-stricken for having cut off a corner of his robe. 6 He said to his men, "The LORD forbid that I should do such a thing to my master, the LORD's anointed, or lift my hand against him; for he is the anointed of the LORD ." 7 With these words David rebuked his men and did not allow them to attack Saul. And Saul left the cave and went his way.
8 Then David went out of the cave and called out to Saul, "My lord the king!" When Saul looked behind him, David bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.

© Copyright 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
All rights reserved worldwide




KJV
1 Samuel 24
1 And it came to pass, when Saul was returned from following the Philistines, that it was told him, saying, Behold, David is in the wilderness of Engedi.
2 Then Saul took three thousand chosen men out of all Israel, and went to seek David and his men upon the rocks of the wild goats.
3 And he came to the sheepcotes by the way, where was a cave; and Saul went in to cover his feet: and David and his men remained in the sides of the cave.
4 And the men of David said unto him, Behold the day of which the LORD said unto thee, Behold, I will deliver thine enemy into thine hand, that thou mayest do to him as it shall seem good unto thee. Then David arose, and cut off the skirt of Saul's robe privily.
5 And it came to pass afterward, that David's heart smote him, because he had cut off Saul's skirt.
6 And he said unto his men, The LORD forbid that I should do this thing unto my master, the LORD's anointed, to stretch forth mine hand against him, seeing he is the anointed of the LORD.
7 So David stayed his servants with these words, and suffered them not to rise against Saul. But Saul rose up out of the cave, and went on his way.
8 David also arose afterward, and went out of the cave, and cried after Saul, saying, My lord the king. And when Saul looked behind him, David stooped with his face to the earth, and bowed himself.

 

[Susan]

"Cover his feet" is a Hebrew euphemism for "relieving yourself," just as "sleeping with your fathers" (also in the KJV) is a euphemism for dying.

If we are going to take Hebrew euphemisms so literally in their English forms, then we also have to accuse almost all the kings (even the "righteous" ones) of. . .um, well, you get my drift. squawk

 

[Susan]

One more thing Julie: I would be VERY careful about calling ANY version of the Word of God "trash."

That is generally considered an act of gross blasphemy. . .

 

[Jesusong]

Julie,

         Please answer my last post.

 

[Julie]

Susan, I will refuse to be drug down to your level.

 

[Susan]

Ouchouchouch. . . something burned just then. I think it was a *flame*

 

[The Thadman]

Yesterday at 02:42 PM Julie said this in Post #134

Susan, I will refuse to be drug down to your level.

Don't refuse to humble yourself to prove a point.

The fact is that the KJV is based off of manuscripts that, over time, had verses added to them. Modern Holy-Spirit-Guided research has been able to find that these verses don't trace back through manuscript history, and more modern Holy-Spirit-Guided research (some that I'm working with) is showing that Greek (the language that the KJV translated from) may even be the wrong language alltogether.

Taude u-Shlomo!

-Steve-o

 

[Julie]

"Modern Holy-Spirit-Guided research"? You must be jesting,  how could modern research be Holy Spirit guided when most of the so called scholars are not even born again blood washed Bible believers in the first place?

 

The NIV committee was made up of over 100 people with various Biblical backgrounds and doctrinal beliefs.

 

Edwin H. Palmer - he served as the executive secretary of the NIV committee on Bible translation and as coordinator of all translation work on the NIV. He died on September 16, 1980, but not before he had laid the ground work for the NIV. Mr. Palmer was a liberal who questioned nearly every major doctrine. Palmer was the one who selected the cast of translators who produced the NIV. 

 Ronald Youngblood, quoted as saying, "The Bible is the words of men." How can a modernist be trusted to tell us what God's Word is?

Dr. Mollenkott, one of the literary consultants for the NIV translating committee, is a professed homosexual.  Realizing Dr. Mollenkott's moral direction, one could expect her views to strongly affect the outcome of the NIV translation, and it does, as can be seen in the treatment of the sin of Sodom from which the term "sodomy" is derived.

 

 

[The Thadman]

Today at 10:03 AM Julie said this in Post #137

"Modern Holy-Spirit-Guided research"? You must be jesting,  how could modern research be Holy Spirit guided when most of the so called scholars are not even born again blood washed Bible believers in the first place?

 

The NIV committee was made up of over 100 people with various Biblical backgrounds and doctrinal beliefs.

 

Edwin H. Palmer - he served as the executive secretary of the NIV committee on Bible translation and as coordinator of all translation work on the NIV. He died on September 16, 1980, but not before he had laid the ground work for the NIV. Mr. Palmer was a liberal who questioned nearly every major doctrine. Palmer was the one who selected the cast of translators who produced the NIV. 

 Ronald Youngblood, quoted as saying, "The Bible is the words of men." How can a modernist be trusted to tell us what God's Word is?

Dr. Mollenkott, one of the literary consultants for the NIV translating committee, is a professed homosexual.  Realizing Dr. Mollenkott's moral direction, one could expect her views to strongly affect the outcome of the NIV translation, and it does, as can be seen in the treatment of the sin of Sodom from which the term "sodomy" is derived.

 

You forgot to mention the other 97 or so and their beliefs.

Shlomo,

 

[The Thadman]

And, as a brother to a sister, don't let your pride of the KJV text get in the way. Your only pride should be in YHWH.

Shlomo,

 

[Susan]

Mollenkott was thrown off of the committee the second she revealed her lesbianism, and she had not worked on any verses that spoke to that subject. As a matter of fact, the NIV is one of the translations that actually comes out and says "homosexual offenders" or the like in such passages. Also, if one person on the translation committee being gay means the whole thing is unguided by God, then we must also refuse to use the KJV. . . because King James himself was a homosexual and one of his translators was a man who "drank his fill daily" of alcohol (which I dare say would have much more effect on your ability to translate a text) All this is documented, although I don't have my sources at hand (I might be able to dig all of them up in a few days)

Ronald Youngblood was misquoted (deliberately) by the person you got that information from. Here is the real quote:

"The Bible is the most dramatic literary production of all time. The preparation and promise of the Old Testament find their completion and fulfillment in the New Testament. Each half of Scripture needs the other for its fullest understanding. As Augustine put it: "The New Testament is in the Old Testament concealed, the Old Testament is in the New Testament revealed." Such a close relationship between the two Testaments is reason enough to warrant frequent examination of the ever-fascinating and always-important topic, "Old Testament Quotations in the New Testament." Each of the major elements in that title, however, is fraught with its own dangers." (page 111, "The NIV: The Making Of A Contempory Translation", quoted from http://aomin.org/NABVR.html )

The refutation of the challenges to Edwin Palmer's character is too long to be posted here. I would refer you to the article I cited above, which ably challenges KJVO claims about the NIV and NASB translators.