Symbols in the Book of Revelation

[Cis.jd]

I think you should have started off first by reading the Church's reason for canonizing the book, researching on comments from early Church fathers and then decide whether or not you should waste your time doing this type of creative writing and then deluding yourself that you are doing some form of "prophetic" study.

 

[DavidPT]

Interesting. But if the woman is symbolic, and not Mary as you say it couldn't be, what symbol ever gave birth to a human being who was Jesus the Christ? Where is that in any of the four Gospels?

Actually though when you think about it, Eve in Genesis 3, when she is called the woman, it is meaning in an individual sense and is being used as a symbol at the same time. For example.

Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

In the singular individual sense---and thy(Eve) desire shall be to thy husband(Adam), and he(Adam) shall rule over thee(Eve). Which also applies to all future husbands and wives, in a singular individual sense


Used as a symbol---and thy(Christ's wife) desire shall be to thy husband(Christ), and he(Christ) shall rule over thee(Christ's wife).


When used as a symbol, obviously Christ is meaning a single individual, yet His wife is being used as a symbol rather than as a single individual.

 

[Ronald]

I’ve put together a chart of symbols from Revelation chapter 12 to17. (would like to do the whole book but got puffed out)

One of the things that intrigues us is how Revelation, although symbolic, also manifests sometimes as literal. Anyway, here is the chart. Please pick out the symbol that interests you and discuss.

View attachment 270433

Good job with identifying the symbolism in most cases, although I might disagree with the interpretations.

Rev. 12:1 I believe is the constellation Virgo, clothed with the sun (meaning the exact position of the stars occured during the day), with Leo (the LION -another constellation of 10 stars) plus Venus and Mars around her head and the moon at her feet. This constellation does not appear to often. It appeared on 9/11/3BC - very possibly when Jesus was born. What happened leading up to that day was that Jupiter
(The King Planet), moved across the sky (which was, if this is correct, followed by the Magi), and entered into Virgo (around the area where the womb would be) and circled around inside for 9 months, then existed out of the womb on that day.
You can't make this stuff up. So apparently it has appeared several times throughout history and recently on 9-23-2017. You can ignore this and interpret it another way, but I think it has multiple meanings. The women also means Israel, 12 stars also represent 12 tribes and of course the child is Jesus.
_____
I would like to discuss the 7th head, which you correctly identified as Islam (Ottoman Empire). It ended in 1923. Now remember the 8th is the 7th. The 7th comes back to life and becomes the 8th. "The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction." Rev. 17:11

Therefore the last kingdom, the Beast, is Islam.
In this video, John Macarthur discusses the eschatology Islam as it relates to the eschatology if the Bible and confirms that Islam will be the final kingdom during which the Islamic anti-Christ, possessed by Satan rules the world. The ten horns he chooses will be Islamic leaders who come against Israel and the world.

 

[Ronald]

To DavidPT,
Sorry this post got jumbled and partially quoted your post#2 with the Op post - fixed it.
________________
Response to Post# 2.


Revelation can't be read in a strict chronological and linear way. It goes back and forth, giving us different vantage points, it overlaps. It is likened to a transparent 3 dimensional sphere with events display on the outside and inside. As you turn the sphere, you see different things going on. The Seal events cannot possible all occur before the trumpet and bowl events. The scroll with seven seals is like a play that contains the trumpets and bowls, Those events fall within. This is why this book is so confusing. It doesn't make sense if you read in a linear way.
Examples:
>I can tell that Rev. 7:9 and 11:15 are the same event, our ressurection (rapture).
>Chapter 7 and 14 are different vantage points pertaining to the 144k Jews.
>There is a worldwide earthquake in Rev. 6:12 is probably the same one in Rev. 16:18. >The four horsemen that destroy the earth in Rev. 6 are likely the four angels released from the Abyss in Rev. 9:14, 15, who btw are on horses but are not allowed to harm any one until the mark is received.
If at the blowing of the 5th trumpet, the angels are instructed not to harm the grass or trees, only those who have the mark of the beast, was in some chronological order, then bow could 1/3 of the planet be on fire, which is an event that occurred after the first trumpet? That's confusing. Maybe the trumpets are blown quickly and then the events follow and accumulate. ???
I've been drawn to and studied eschatology for 25 years and still don't have it figured out.

 

[Christian Gedge]

I think you should have started off first by reading the Church's reason for canonizing the book, researching on comments from early Church fathers and then decide whether or not you should waste your time doing this type of creative writing and then deluding yourself that you are doing some form of "prophetic" study.

I respect the Church fathers. Quote away.

 

[Christian Gedge]

_____
I would like to discuss the 7th head, which you correctly identified as Islam (Ottoman Empire). It ended in 1923. Now remember the 8th is the 7th. The 7th comes back to life and becomes the 8th. "The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction." Rev. 17:11

Therefore the last kingdom, the Beast, is Islam.
In this video, John Macarthur discusses the eschatology Islam as it relates to the eschatology if the Bible and confirms that Islam will be the final kingdom during which the Islamic anti-Christ, possessed by Satan rules the world. The ten horns he chooses will be Islamic leaders who come against Israel and the world.

This is powerful video presentation by Dr. MacArthur. The first half of his message identifies the 7th head as the Islamic caliphate and the 8th as the final caliphate. I agree.

 

[keras]

This is powerful video presentation by Dr. MacArthur. The first half of his message identifies the 7th head as the Islamic caliphate and the 8th as the final caliphate. I agree.

Too bad he and all who think Islam has a part to play during the end times; fail to read what the Bible prophets say will happen:

Not if, but when, the confederation of Islamic nations and entities such as Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah, attack Israel in their desperate effort to overcome the humiliation of previous failed attempts to “wipe Israel off the map “- Then, the Lord will act against His enemies, Psalms 83:1-19, Isaiah 42:14-15, in His terrible Day of vengeance and fiery wrath against the nations. Habakkuk 3:12, Ezekiel 20:46-47, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Revelation 6:12-17- the Sixth Seal.

Here is a list of Bible verses that reveals the fates of those “evil neighbours”.
Note: this judgement includes Judah, the current Jewish State of Israel. Ezekiel 21:1-7, Amos 2:4-5, Jeremiah 12:14.

THE NATIONS
Psalms 83:1-18 Do not keep silent, O God, for your enemies have devised a plot against your people. Let us wipe them out as a nation, they say- Let Israel be remembered no more.......
Scatter those godless people; make them as dung on the ground. As a fire rages through a forest, may they perish in disgrace.

Zechariah 12:1-9 This is the word of the Lord concerning Israel. I am about to make Jerusalem an intoxicating cup that sends all the surrounding nations reeling. Judah will be involved. On that day, when all the nations of the earth are against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock. All who try to move her will be cut to pieces. The armies of those nations will be struck with blindness and madness. Judah will praise Me on that Day and their leaders will be strong, as a burning torch among the sheaves. All the nations right and left will be consumed, while Jerusalem remains safe. Isaiah 31:5, Psalms 125, Jeremiah 3:17-18

Isaiah 33:10-12 Now I shall arise, says the Lord. You will be like chaff and stubble. Whole nations will be heaps of white ash, like thorns set ablaze. Matthew 3:12, Hebrews 10:27, Rev 6:12-17

Jeremiah 9:25-26 The Lord says, the time is coming when I will punish all who are circumcised only in the flesh. All those who live in the desert regions are uncircumcised in their hearts. Ezekiel 30:1-5

Ezekiel 28:26 When I execute judgement on all of Israel’s scornful neighbours, then My [faithful Christian] people will live in the Land, undisturbed. Amos 9:13-15


IRAN
Jeremiah 49:35-39 The Lord says, I shall break the bow of Elam, their chief weapon. I will bring disaster upon them, destroy their leaders and officials and scatter them around the earth.

Ezekiel 32:24 Elam is buried in Sheol, with all her people- victims of the sword. Those who spread terror in the land of the living, now bear disgrace with all those in the abyss


PALESTINIANS
Ezekiel 25:15-17 The Lord says, because the Philistines have resorted to revenge with malice in their hearts and with ancient hostility, they seek to destroy Judah. I shall stretch out My hand against them and take mighty vengeance.

Amos 1:6-8 For crime after crime of Gaza, they will have no reprieve – I shall send fire until the last of the Philistines is dead.

Zephaniah 2:4-7 At midday Gaza will be left in ruins, I will destroy you. You will be left with no inhabitants.


LEBANON
Luke 10:14 Tyre and Sidon will be judged.

Amos 1:9-10 For the sins of Tyre, I will not hold back My wrath. They ignored the brotherly alliance; therefore, I shall send fire to consume their fortresses

Zechariah 9:3-5 The word of the Lord alights on Tyre and Sidon – I will take away your possessions and the cities will be destroyed by fire.


SYRIA
Amos 1:3-5 For crime after crime of Damascus, I will grant them no reprieve. I shall send fire on their fortresses.

Jeremiah 49:23-27 News comes of a disaster, confusion and anxiety reign, they try to escape, but all her soldiers die on that day.

Isaiah 17:1-14 Damascus will cease to be a city, forever desolate. Listen - it is the thunder of vast forces, at evening all is terror, before morning all is gone. Such is the fate of our adversaries.

ARABIA
This prophecy in Jeremiah mentions King Nebuchadrezzer of Babylon attacking Kedar and Hazor. This did happen during Jeremiah’s lifetime, but not to the full extent of this prophecy:

Jeremiah 49:28-33 Arise, attack Kedar and destroy the desert peoples of the East. Your possessions will be taken. A cry of terror will go up – flee quickly away and hide in remote places. Hazor will become a desolate place forever, totally uninhabited.

Isaiah 21:13-17 An oracle concerning Arabia. You, who live in Arabia and Tema, meet the fugitives with food and water, those who flee from the sword, from the heat of the battle. Then, within a year, all of Kedar’s glory will come to an end, only a few of her soldiers will be left. [This is interesting: “meet the fugitives”, may mean those escaping from Jordan, down the Desert Highway or the old Kings Highway.]


JORDAN
Ezekiel 25:1-11 Prophesy against the Ammonites – because you exulted over the Land of Israel with spiteful contempt, I shall give you up to be plundered by the nations. I will cut you off from other peoples and exterminate you from every country. Peoples from the East will camp on your land.

Jeremiah 49:1-8 Has Israel no heirs? Why, then do Milcoms people possess the towns of Gad? Therefore a time is coming when you will hear the battle cry. Ammon will become a desolate mound, all its towns burnt to ashes.

Ezekiel 21:28-32 A sword of slaughter will flash like lightning. The visions that you have are false, advising you to bring the sword against the unbelievers, but the time of their punishment will come later. In the land of your ancestry, I will judge you, I shall hand you over to brutal men. You will be fuel for the fire and be remembered no more.

Amos 1:13-15 For crime after crime of the Ammonites, I shall grant them no reprieve, because in their greed for land, they ripped open pregnant women in Gilead. Therefore, fire will destroy Rabbah- Ammon with a whirlwind on that day. Their King will go into exile and his officers with him.


EGYPT
Isaiah 19:1-10 The Lord comes riding swiftly on a cloud, He descends on Egypt and the hearts of the Egyptians melt within them. I will stir them up against each other. They will be confused, all their plans fail. Idols and spirit mediums are useless. I shall hand Egypt over to a hard master. The Nile will dry up. Fishing, agriculture and industry will all fail.

Isaiah 19:11-16 Egypts leaders give senseless advice – the Lord has poured a spirit of confusion into them. The Egyptians will become weak and terror stricken.

Isaiah 19:17-20 Judah will bring terror to the Egyptians, even the mention of Israel will terrify them. In that day there will be 5 cities who speak the ancient language and who worship the Lord. [Coptic Christians?] Also, on that day there will be an altar and a monument to the Lord, as a witness when they cry out to Him, and He will send a deliverer to rescue them. Egypt will acknowledge and worship the Lord, He will respond to them and heal them.

Ezekiel 29:8 The Lord God says, I am bringing a sword against you. Egypt will become a desolate wasteland. For 40 years the people will be scattered among the nations. Then regathered to upper Egypt.

Ezekiel chapter 30 Alas for the day, a sword will come on Egypt, by the hand of foreigners, I shall lay waste to the land of Egypt.

Ezekiel chapter 31 The pride of Pharaoh, the leader of Egypt, is cut down.

Ezekiel chapter 32 Many peoples will be appalled at the fate of Egypt, the cattle destroyed, the land laid waste and empty.


Modern place names from Strongs Concordance; Elam= Persia. Now Iran. Philistines =
Palestinians. Tyre and Sidon = Cities in Lebanon. Damascus = Capital of Syria. Rabbah-Ammon= Amman, capital of Jordan. Gilead = The area of North Western Jordan. Gad = the Israelite tribe given the Gilead area. Milcom= the high God of the Ammonites. Kedar & Tema= Sons of Ishmael, ancestors of the Arabs. Hazor = the area of Eastern Arabia, including Mecca and Medina.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Actually though when you think about it, Eve in Genesis 3, when she is called the woman, it is meaning in an individual sense and is being used as a symbol at the same time. For example.

Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

In the singular individual sense---and thy(Eve) desire shall be to thy husband(Adam), and he(Adam) shall rule over thee(Eve). Which also applies to all future husbands and wives, in a singular individual sense


Used as a symbol---and thy(Christ's wife) desire shall be to thy husband(Christ), and he(Christ) shall rule over thee(Christ's wife).


When used as a symbol, obviously Christ is meaning a single individual, yet His wife is being used as a symbol rather than as a single individual.

Good that you can see that something can have a literal sense and a fuller sense at the same time. Like the woman who was the mother of the child would be Mary if the child was Jesus. Since everyone agrees that the male child is Jesus it makes sense that his mother is Mary. Maybe something beyond that, probably in this case, but also the literal mother of Jesus.

 

[Christian Gedge]

Good that you can see that something can have a literal sense and a fuller sense at the same time. Like the woman who was the mother of the child would be Mary if the child was Jesus. Since everyone agrees that the male child is Jesus it makes sense that his mother is Mary. Maybe something beyond that, probably in this case, but also the literal mother of Jesus.

My chart never precluded Mary. She embodied the people of faith. Having said that, the primary meaning of the pregnant woman symbol was all the 'true Israel of God.'

How did the Church Fathers see its interpretation? I'd be interested to know.

 

[Ronald]

Too bad he and all who think Islam has a part to play during the end times; fail to read what the Bible prophets say will happen:

Not if, but when, the confederation of Islamic nations and entities such as Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah, attack Israel in their desperate effort to overcome the humiliation of previous failed attempts to “wipe Israel off the map “- Then, the Lord will act against His enemies, Psalms 83:1-19, Isaiah 42:14-15, in His terrible Day of vengeance and fiery wrath against the nations. Habakkuk 3:12, Ezekiel 20:46-47, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Revelation 6:12-17- the Sixth Seal.

Here is a list of Bible verses that reveals the fates of those “evil neighbours”.
Note: this judgement includes Judah, the current Jewish State of Israel. Ezekiel 21:1-7, Amos 2:4-5, Jeremiah 12:14.

THE NATIONS
Psalms 83:1-18 Do not keep silent, O God, for your enemies have devised a plot against your people. Let us wipe them out as a nation, they say- Let Israel be remembered no more.......
Scatter those godless people; make them as dung on the ground. As a fire rages through a forest, may they perish in disgrace.

Zechariah 12:1-9 This is the word of the Lord concerning Israel. I am about to make Jerusalem an intoxicating cup that sends all the surrounding nations reeling. Judah will be involved. On that day, when all the nations of the earth are against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock. All who try to move her will be cut to pieces. The armies of those nations will be struck with blindness and madness. Judah will praise Me on that Day and their leaders will be strong, as a burning torch among the sheaves. All the nations right and left will be consumed, while Jerusalem remains safe. Isaiah 31:5, Psalms 125, Jeremiah 3:17-18

Isaiah 33:10-12 Now I shall arise, says the Lord. You will be like chaff and stubble. Whole nations will be heaps of white ash, like thorns set ablaze. Matthew 3:12, Hebrews 10:27, Rev 6:12-17

Jeremiah 9:25-26 The Lord says, the time is coming when I will punish all who are circumcised only in the flesh. All those who live in the desert regions are uncircumcised in their hearts. Ezekiel 30:1-5

Ezekiel 28:26 When I execute judgement on all of Israel’s scornful neighbours, then My [faithful Christian] people will live in the Land, undisturbed. Amos 9:13-15


IRAN
Jeremiah 49:35-39 The Lord says, I shall break the bow of Elam, their chief weapon. I will bring disaster upon them, destroy their leaders and officials and scatter them around the earth.

Ezekiel 32:24 Elam is buried in Sheol, with all her people- victims of the sword. Those who spread terror in the land of the living, now bear disgrace with all those in the abyss


PALESTINIANS
Ezekiel 25:15-17 The Lord says, because the Philistines have resorted to revenge with malice in their hearts and with ancient hostility, they seek to destroy Judah. I shall stretch out My hand against them and take mighty vengeance.

Amos 1:6-8 For crime after crime of Gaza, they will have no reprieve – I shall send fire until the last of the Philistines is dead.

Zephaniah 2:4-7 At midday Gaza will be left in ruins, I will destroy you. You will be left with no inhabitants.


LEBANON
Luke 10:14 Tyre and Sidon will be judged.

Amos 1:9-10 For the sins of Tyre, I will not hold back My wrath. They ignored the brotherly alliance; therefore, I shall send fire to consume their fortresses

Zechariah 9:3-5 The word of the Lord alights on Tyre and Sidon – I will take away your possessions and the cities will be destroyed by fire.


SYRIA
Amos 1:3-5 For crime after crime of Damascus, I will grant them no reprieve. I shall send fire on their fortresses.

Jeremiah 49:23-27 News comes of a disaster, confusion and anxiety reign, they try to escape, but all her soldiers die on that day.

Isaiah 17:1-14 Damascus will cease to be a city, forever desolate. Listen - it is the thunder of vast forces, at evening all is terror, before morning all is gone. Such is the fate of our adversaries.

ARABIA
This prophecy in Jeremiah mentions King Nebuchadrezzer of Babylon attacking Kedar and Hazor. This did happen during Jeremiah’s lifetime, but not to the full extent of this prophecy:

Jeremiah 49:28-33 Arise, attack Kedar and destroy the desert peoples of the East. Your possessions will be taken. A cry of terror will go up – flee quickly away and hide in remote places. Hazor will become a desolate place forever, totally uninhabited.

Isaiah 21:13-17 An oracle concerning Arabia. You, who live in Arabia and Tema, meet the fugitives with food and water, those who flee from the sword, from the heat of the battle. Then, within a year, all of Kedar’s glory will come to an end, only a few of her soldiers will be left. [This is interesting: “meet the fugitives”, may mean those escaping from Jordan, down the Desert Highway or the old Kings Highway.]


JORDAN
Ezekiel 25:1-11 Prophesy against the Ammonites – because you exulted over the Land of Israel with spiteful contempt, I shall give you up to be plundered by the nations. I will cut you off from other peoples and exterminate you from every country. Peoples from the East will camp on your land.

Jeremiah 49:1-8 Has Israel no heirs? Why, then do Milcoms people possess the towns of Gad? Therefore a time is coming when you will hear the battle cry. Ammon will become a desolate mound, all its towns burnt to ashes.

Ezekiel 21:28-32 A sword of slaughter will flash like lightning. The visions that you have are false, advising you to bring the sword against the unbelievers, but the time of their punishment will come later. In the land of your ancestry, I will judge you, I shall hand you over to brutal men. You will be fuel for the fire and be remembered no more.

Amos 1:13-15 For crime after crime of the Ammonites, I shall grant them no reprieve, because in their greed for land, they ripped open pregnant women in Gilead. Therefore, fire will destroy Rabbah- Ammon with a whirlwind on that day. Their King will go into exile and his officers with him.


EGYPT
Isaiah 19:1-10 The Lord comes riding swiftly on a cloud, He descends on Egypt and the hearts of the Egyptians melt within them. I will stir them up against each other. They will be confused, all their plans fail. Idols and spirit mediums are useless. I shall hand Egypt over to a hard master. The Nile will dry up. Fishing, agriculture and industry will all fail.

Isaiah 19:11-16 Egypts leaders give senseless advice – the Lord has poured a spirit of confusion into them. The Egyptians will become weak and terror stricken.

Isaiah 19:17-20 Judah will bring terror to the Egyptians, even the mention of Israel will terrify them. In that day there will be 5 cities who speak the ancient language and who worship the Lord. [Coptic Christians?] Also, on that day there will be an altar and a monument to the Lord, as a witness when they cry out to Him, and He will send a deliverer to rescue them. Egypt will acknowledge and worship the Lord, He will respond to them and heal them.

Ezekiel 29:8 The Lord God says, I am bringing a sword against you. Egypt will become a desolate wasteland. For 40 years the people will be scattered among the nations. Then regathered to upper Egypt.

Ezekiel chapter 30 Alas for the day, a sword will come on Egypt, by the hand of foreigners, I shall lay waste to the land of Egypt.

Ezekiel chapter 31 The pride of Pharaoh, the leader of Egypt, is cut down.

Ezekiel chapter 32 Many peoples will be appalled at the fate of Egypt, the cattle destroyed, the land laid waste and empty.


Modern place names from Strongs Concordance; Elam= Persia. Now Iran. Philistines =
Palestinians. Tyre and Sidon = Cities in Lebanon. Damascus = Capital of Syria. Rabbah-Ammon= Amman, capital of Jordan. Gilead = The area of North Western Jordan. Gad = the Israelite tribe given the Gilead area. Milcom= the high God of the Ammonites. Kedar & Tema= Sons of Ishmael, ancestors of the Arabs. Hazor = the area of Eastern Arabia, including Mecca and Medina.

Thanks for more supportive proof that Islam will be the Beast AND be destroyed of course!

 

[chevyontheriver]

My chart never precluded Mary. She embodied the people of faith. Having said that, the primary meaning of the pregnant woman symbol was all the 'true Israel of God.'

How did the Church Fathers see its interpretation? I'd be interested to know.

I'm glad you don't preclude a literal Mary as the mother of a literal Jesus. It seemed that was what you had done. Mary is the true Israel of God, and one of the models of the Church, especially as the mother of the beloved disciple based on what Jesus said from the cross. The beloved disciple is in a way every Christian, even if more literally but unspoken it is John.

The Fathers saw Mary as the Ark of the Covenant, tying in the end of Rev 11 with Rev 12. And that Ark no longer on earth but in the heavens. It's actually very astounding, tying in Jesus as the New Adam with Mary as the New Eve.

I myself have just finished looking at the parallels between Rachael and Mary and I have to say I think there is something there, but that's not based on Rev. In fact it explains why the John is the 'beloved disciple' as the parallels between John and Benjamin are huge. Brant Pitre helped me see that in a book called 'Jesus and the Jewish Roots of Mary'.

One of the keys I use for Rev after the letters to the seven churches is a liturgical one. The incense, candlestands, and all that are reminiscent of a high mass or an Orthodox liturgy. Heaven and liturgy seem to intertwine. I don't think that is the absolute and final key to Revelations but it helps. Scott Hahn helped me see that.

 

[keras]

Thanks for more supportive proof that Islam will be the Beast AND be destroyed of course!

My post #67, proves that the Islamic peoples will be virtually wiped out BEFORE the 'beast' comes onto the scene.
The RCC will continue, but when the 'beast', the Anti-Christ gains power, he will destroy it, Revelation 17:16 and demand worship of himself.

Psalms 144:5-8 Lord: Part the heavens, come down and touch the mountains, so they pour forth smoke. Send Your lightning flashes far and wide and speed Your arrows to their mark.
Reach out Your hand from on high and rescue me from the mighty turmoil. Save me from the power of enemies, whose every word is worthless and every oath is false.

‘every word false’, The Islamic code of Al Takkya encourages them to use deception when dealing with ‘infidels’.

 

[Douggg]

Therefore the last kingdom, the Beast, is Islam.
In this video, John Macarthur discusses the eschatology Islam as it relates to the eschatology if the Bible and confirms that Islam will be the final kingdom during which the Islamic anti-Christ, possessed by Satan rules the world.

The John Macarthur videos on You Tube have the comments section turned off.

The reason is because I have pointed out in the past, on Videos of John Macarthur's teaching, in order to be the Antichrist a person has to be a Jew and his religion must be Judaism, to be thought by the Jews to be the messiah and anointed (by the false prophet) the King of Israel, coming in his own name.

In similitude, it is like to become President - a person must be elected President. Then once sworn in - he is then President. And there are qualifications to be come President.

Mark 15:31 Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save.

32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

 

[Douggg]

Mary is the true Israel of God

Why would you think that?

 

[Douggg]

This is powerful video presentation by Dr. MacArthur. The first half of his message identifies the 7th head as the Islamic caliphate and the 8th as the final caliphate. I agree.

Reminds me of the same type of misguided logic like back in the 1970s some were saying Russia/Gorbachev was the beast, and China the great red dragon.

 

[Douggg]

My post #67, proves that the Islamic peoples will be virtually wiped out BEFORE the 'beast' comes onto the scene.
The RCC will continue, but when the 'beast', the Anti-Christ gains power, he will destroy it, Revelation 17:16 and demand worship of himself.

Psalms 144:5-8 Lord: Part the heavens, come down and touch the mountains, so they pour forth smoke. Send Your lightning flashes far and wide and speed Your arrows to their mark.
Reach out Your hand from on high and rescue me from the mighty turmoil. Save me from the power of enemies, whose every word is worthless and every oath is false.

‘every word false’, The Islamic code of Al Takkya encourages them to use deception when dealing with ‘infidels’.

Keras, you should try your hand at making a chart, in similitude to mine, and you will see your interpretations and applications don't work.

 

[fwGod]

Revelation 12:5 is not speaking of Mary, nor is the child Jesus. Nor is it some kind of reminder of those events in the past.

In context, Revelation 12:4 is speaking of Israel. The same that (vs. 6) flees to the wilderness.

In consistency the identities have to remain the same and not switch from the woman - Israel to Mary, then back to the woman as Israel again.

Jesus was born of Mary as recorded in the gospels. In the time of the Revelation, Jesus is seated at the Throne of God.

So the identity of "the child" born in Rev.12 has to be of those within the timeframe of the events of the Tribulation.

That would make verse 5 to be the nation of Israel.
They are listed in Rev.7. They are the first fruits of Jews who accept Jesus as their Messiah.

Because the two witnesses are caught up into heaven in Rev.11.. then "the child" is caught up in Rev.12.. I see it as economy that chapts 11,12 are describing that all are caught up together at the same time.

Other Jews accept Jesus as their Messiah when they see Him coming in the clouds Rev.19:11-16 the Second Advent and usher in the Millennium.

 

[keras]

Keras, you should try your hand at making a chart, in similitude to mine, and you will see your interpretations and applications don't work.

I have done several timelines, they are all well supported by scripture. All on my website.

Your idea of placing the extra 30 and 75 days, before the 1260 days of the GT, simply fails to fit into the final seven years.
The main problem with you and most people, is to think the Jewish State of Israel is the only Israel and will be redeemed when Jesus Returns. This idea is a contradiction of the over 20 plainly stated prophesies saying how the Lord will destroy those haters of Him.
God has actually made those who have believed false theories incapable of understanding the truth.

So the best I can do, is to present the truth, at least you see it and eventually you will experience it.

 

[Douggg]

Your idea of placing the extra 30 and 75 days, before the 1260 days of the GT, simply fails to fit into the final seven years.

The bible doesn't speak of there being 30 and 75 "extra days". The "extra days" is something you are coming up with because you have made some mistakes in interpretation and application.

There is no indication that the Great Tribulation is 1260 days long. There are only two passages on the 1260 days. Revelation 11:3 and Revelation 12:6. Both come before the 7th angel sounds his trumpet, resulting in the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth, Satan cast down, having a time, times, half times left, having great wrath. Revelation 12:12.

 

[Douggg]

I have done several timelines, they are all well supported by scripture. All on my website.

Do a copy and past of your charts. I didn't see anything at your website.