Swedenborg

[-57]

Jesus isn't talking about two judgments, but rather, two resurrections. The resurrection of life is of those who do good; the resurrection of condemnation is of those who do evil.

So, you deny the two judgements? You should humble yourself and learn.

 

[EmSw]

So, you deny the two judgements? You should humble yourself and learn.

Man is judged by his works, whether good or evil.

 

[-57]

Man is judged by his works, whether good or evil.

You better hope not.

As for me my sins were imputed to Christ and i was given His righteousness.
...if you want to earn it...if you think you can earn salvation, have at it. The truth has been presented to you.

 

[EmSw]

You better hope not.

As for me my sins were imputed to Christ and i was given His righteousness.
...if you want to earn it...if you think you can earn salvation, have at it. The truth has been presented to you.

Why is it some will just not believe the Bible? Please show me a judgment in the Bible where works are not a part of it.

Ecclesiastes 3:17
I said in my heart, “God shall judge the righteous and the wicked, for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.”

Ecclesiastes 12:14
For God will bring every work into judgment, including every secret thing, whether good or evil.

Jeremiah 1:16
I will utter My judgments against them concerning all their wickedness, because they have forsaken Me, burned incense to other gods, and worshiped the works of their own hands.

1 Peter 1:17
And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear;

Why do you think you will be exempt? Do you call on the Father, Who judges according to each one's work?

 

[tdidymas]

Perhaps you haven't read the very words of the Savior.

John 5
28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

The resurrection was part of the "etc." Yes, I do believe in it.
TD

 

[tdidymas]

Well, yes, not to you. I accept that.

Here is the official understanding of Scripture within the Catholic Church......

To search out the intention of the sacred writers, attention should be given, among other things, to "literary forms." For truth is set forth and expressed differently in texts which are variously historical, prophetic, poetic, or of other forms of discourse. The interpreter must investigate what meaning the sacred writer intended to express and actually expressed in particular circumstances by using contemporary literary forms in accordance with the situation of his own time and culture. For the correct understanding of what the sacred author wanted to assert, due attention must be paid to the customary and characteristic styles of feeling, speaking and narrating which prevailed at the time of the sacred writer, and to the patterns men normally employed at that period in their everyday dealings with one another. (Dei Verbum, III, 12, 2)

This is a far more nuanced understanding than that of the Protestant Movement.

The fact is that many Christians are questioning the "only way" interpretation of the texts you mention. You may like to call such....."cultists", "some people in the Churches" and then proclaim that you yourself are only here to teach what the Bible teaches. I presume those people pray as you do, have a relationship with God as you do. If you wish to say that they are not "true" Christians, then that is your judgement, and not necessarily Gods.

It Vatican 11, the faithful of the Catholic Church were asked, in the light of what has always been claimed...i.e. that "outside the Church there is no salvation", to consider deeply just who/what constitutes the true Church.

Some will consider deeply, some will presume.

Yet Paul wrote, "how will they believe if they don't hear?" and "faith comes by hearing the word of God." and Peter wrote "we were born again by the living and abiding Word of God," and James wrote "we were brought forth by the Word of truth" and Christ is called "The Word of God." So do you believe that faith in Jesus Christ is how we are given eternal life? If not, then I would say you are sadly mistaken, because John clearly wrote "eternal life is in the Son of God; he who has the Son has life, but he who does not have the Son of God does not have life." (1 John 5:11). I just let the Word of God speak for itself.
TD

 

[tdidymas]

No, I did not mean "when is someone an apostate as opposed to orthodox".

I asked, "When does a cult become an orthodoxy"

Thank you

Only if the people of the cult, namely the leadership, repent and believe what the scripture actually says, and stop making up their own theology and soteriology. If not, then the cult can't become an orthodoxy.
TD

 

[Noxot]

If I'm to understand you....ONLY those that believe in the unbiblical frustrated words of Swedenborg...are saved.
Presbyterians, dead. Baptist, dead. Methodist, dead. Luther, dead. Assembly of God, dead. Every denomination pre-Swedenbord...DEAD. Eastern orthodox, dead... All these denominations pre-swedenbord...DEAD.
Only when Swedenborg presents the bible in it's complicated fabricated light rather than the plain, simple and easy to understand light....are dead.

To you I have to say this...
NEXT.

what strange reasoning you have. why are they dead sir? what happened to them?

 

[Noxot]

Yet Paul wrote, "how will they believe if they don't hear?" and "faith comes by hearing the word of God." and Peter wrote "we were born again by the living and abiding Word of God," and James wrote "we were brought forth by the Word of truth" and Christ is called "The Word of God." So do you believe that faith in Jesus Christ is how we are given eternal life? If not, then I would say you are sadly mistaken, because John clearly wrote "eternal life is in the Son of God; he who has the Son has life, but he who does not have the Son of God does not have life." (1 John 5:11). I just let the Word of God speak for itself.
TD

poor reasoning. try to think a little rather than tunnel vision your way into speaking evil of God because the way you interpret the bible makes God look unfair and evil.

 

[Albion]

Not sure what this has to do with the cult of Swedenborg.

You're right to make this point. Thanks.

 

[Albion]

do you know what a virgin is? a virgin is a soul that is dead to the world and to their old outer man and who is alive to God, which is why they conceive of God and give birth to Christ. the figure of the virgin is also put forth in the figure of being crucified with Christ. if you are a new creature then it is obvious who it is that gave birth to Christ and if you are new then you are a virgin.

Sorry, but what was said (and I quoted) was "literal...virgins."

 

[-57]

Why is it some will just not believe the Bible? Please show me a judgment in the Bible where works are not a part of it.

Ecclesiastes 3:17
I said in my heart, “God shall judge the righteous and the wicked, for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.”

Ecclesiastes 12:14
For God will bring every work into judgment, including every secret thing, whether good or evil.

Jeremiah 1:16
I will utter My judgments against them concerning all their wickedness, because they have forsaken Me, burned incense to other gods, and worshiped the works of their own hands.

1 Peter 1:17
And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear;

Why do you think you will be exempt? Do you call on the Father, Who judges according to each one's work?

Let me say this again to you....there are two judgements. The White Throne and the second is the judgement Seat of Christ (bema).

Form what you post it sounds like you haven't heard of the judgement seat of christ.

 

[-57]

what strange reasoning you have. why are they dead sir? what happened to them?

Eph 2:1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,

If you want to call the bible strange reasoning....have at it.

 

[-57]

do you know what a virgin is? a virgin is a soul that is dead to the world and to their old outer man and who is alive to God, which is why they conceive of God and give birth to Christ. the figure of the virgin is also put forth in the figure of being crucified with Christ. if you are a new creature then it is obvious who it is that gave birth to Christ and if you are new then you are a virgin.

If you want to use the term "virgin" to mean pure in the eyes of God, (regenerated, born again, having your sins imputed to Christ and His righteousness imputed to you) perhaps I can understand that thinking....but it's quite a stretch.

But where you are totally lost is saying we give birth to Jesus. Then again I might ask, by giving birth to Jesus are you meaning we should become more Christ like as our sanctification increases?

 

[Fizzywig]

Only if the people of the cult, namely the leadership, repent and believe what the scripture actually says, and stop making up their own theology and soteriology. If not, then the cult can't become an orthodoxy.
TD

No, you presume far too much, all from your perspective of being yourself "of the truth".

To the Jewish orthodoxies of the first century, the first Christians were a cult........to the Roman authorities, they were a cult.

 

[Noxot]

Eph 2:1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,

If you want to call the bible strange reasoning....have at it.

so prove to me that you are alive, because I know all sinners are dead but those who love God are alive and there are many people in each soul because the person/plants/thoughts/beliefs is like a field that has both wheat and tares.

 

[Noxot]

If you want to use the term "virgin" to mean pure in the eyes of God, (regenerated, born again, having your sins imputed to Christ and His righteousness imputed to you) perhaps I can understand that thinking....but it's quite a stretch.

But where you are totally lost is saying we give birth to Jesus. Then again I might ask, by giving birth to Jesus are you meaning we should become more Christ like as our sanctification increases?

if you do not give birth to God then you do not have God. period the end. how hard is that to understand? does evil give birth to God? no, only goodness does.

this is all about the same person, it speaks of spiritual process occurring within a person. only the woman whos name is zion gives birth to God:

Deut 32:39-43 (YLT)
See ye, now, that I--I am He, And there is no god with Me: I put to death, and I keep alive; I have smitten, and I heal; And there is not from My hand a deliverer, For I lift up unto the heavens My hand, And have said, I live--to the age! If I have sharpened the brightness of My sword, And My hand doth lay hold on judgment, I turn back vengeance to Mine adversaries, And to those hating Me--I repay! I make drunk Mine arrows with blood, And My sword devoureth flesh, From the blood of the pierced and captive, From the head of the freemen of the enemy. Sing ye nations-- with his people, For the blood of His servants He avengeth, And vengeance He turneth back on His adversaries, And hath pardoned His land--His people.'

 

[-57]

so prove to me that you are alive, because I know all sinners are dead but those who love God are alive and there are many people in each soul because the person/plants/thoughts/beliefs is like a field that has both wheat and tares.

Eph 2:4-5 has this to say about being made alive...

4 But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ, even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved!

....as you see, it is kinda hard to love God when you're dead in your trespasses.
Perhaps you would like to apply the bible to your thoughts and correct your "theology".

 

[-57]

if you do not give birth to God then you do not have God. period the end. how hard is that to understand? does evil give birth to God? no, only goodness does.

Goodness?

What's Jesus have to say about it?

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.

Romans 3:10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one; 11 There is no one who understands; no one whoseeks God. 12All have turned away; they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one'

....and you have the goodness to "birth God"? Seems to me your anti-biblical theology is fallaing apart and getting worse with each post.

 

[Noxot]

Sorry, but what was said (and I quoted) was "literal...virgins."

real virgins are spiritual virgins according to the bible. the secondary symbol for what a virgin is would be what happens in the flesh i.e. when someone does not have sex with another. virgins are heavenly souls who are with God and that is why their souls name is in the figure of "mary", who literally was a virgin that gave birth to Jesus Christ which all occurred in this symbolic world that we live in that it might also come to be fulfilled in each of us who love God if indeed we have tasted that the Lord is good.

but God had to come in the flesh because mankind was so blind that all they can and often still can accept is the flesh as is proven all the time when people are so utterly legalistic in their interpretations of the bible. and God shows how those of the spirit are and how superior it is to worship God in spirit and in truth, which we all do to the degree that we really do it. the chief two words to describe the life of the spirit would probably be 'wisdom and 'love' or 'truth' and 'goodness'. both terms swedenborg mentions a ton.

the two can not be cut off from one another as I am wont to demonstrate when I lack love in my wisdom towards others. and as is often shown in peoples understanding of God when they don't have enough love. or when people love God but lack wisdom, this also shows a defect, for the two are the same thing and so they die and suffer when they are cut off one from another because they belong together like male and female do.