Swedenborg

[tdidymas]

yeah well i'm part of the body of Christ so you might want to use some reasoning as to what that could mean.

I wasn't replying to you, I was replying to someone else here, to refute by Biblical truth what he said. The verse does NOT mean there are many paths, namely many religions. There is only one way. 1 John 5:10 "The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son."
TD

 

[tdidymas]

So which Christian church today is telling us 100% truth? No two denominations can totally agree on everything. This means most, if not all, are only giving us 97% (or less) truth. Are we being poisoned by today's churches? Are churches today cults? Maybe it isn't arsenic you are poisoned with, but snake venom, lead, mercury, carbon monoxide, or some other toxic substance.

What I am doing here is judging what people say, according to what the Bible teaches. The more familiar you get with what the Bible says, the more you will be able to discern truth from fiction, and the more you will be able to discern essential truth from non-essential (i.e. secondary matters). Most of the churches teach essential truths of Christianity, namely things about the nature of God, the deity of Christ, the work of Christ, the way of salvation, etc. according to Biblical teaching. It is in mostly secondary matters that various churches disagree, and it certainly doesn't make any one a cult.

What I am judging here is the statement about what Swedenborg taught, that if one believes in other religions that they can make it to heaven, and I'm saying this statement is completely unbiblical. There is only one way to paradise, and it is through Christ alone. 1 John 5:10 "The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son."
TD

 

[tdidymas]

Hi again. You are welcome to claim such is so. The split of Protestants - who proclaim Sola Scriptura - into over 1000 diverse denominations, conclusively shows otherwise.

The Word as a " simple and clear" text is a phantom of the mind, often grasped at by those who, for whatever reason, seek more than Grace.

It may be a phantom to you, but not to me. To me it is clear. The "split" you are talking about is only in some people in the churches, not in the official teachings of the churches, at least in regard to the verse in question. There is no Protestant church I know of, except those deemed as cults by the vast majority, that does not believe in the exclusiveness of Christ. Jesus is the way, and He only is the way. Besides, I'm here to write about what the Bible teaches, not to bicker about various opinions. That Christ is the only way, the scripture is clear on: 1 John 5:10-12 "The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life."
TD

 

[Fizzywig]

You mean when is someone an apostate as opposed to orthodox? There has to be a consensus about what is essentially Christian, since there is a New Testament standard of what is and isn't. Ultimately, God will judge between the sheep and the goats. I'm simply judging what people say, whether it be Biblical or not, whether it be orthodox or cultlike in nature. John wrote "test every spirit," and that's what I'm doing here.
TD

No, I did not mean "when is someone an apostate as opposed to orthodox".

I asked, "When does a cult become an orthodoxy"

Thank you

 

[Fizzywig]

It may be a phantom to you, but not to me. To me it is clear. The "split" you are talking about is only in some people in the churches, not in the official teachings of the churches, at least in regard to the verse in question. There is no Protestant church I know of, except those deemed as cults by the vast majority, that does not believe in the exclusiveness of Christ. Jesus is the way, and He only is the way. Besides, I'm here to write about what the Bible teaches, not to bicker about various opinions. That Christ is the only way, the scripture is clear on: 1 John 5:10-12 "The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life."
TD

Well, yes, not to you. I accept that.

Here is the official understanding of Scripture within the Catholic Church......

To search out the intention of the sacred writers, attention should be given, among other things, to "literary forms." For truth is set forth and expressed differently in texts which are variously historical, prophetic, poetic, or of other forms of discourse. The interpreter must investigate what meaning the sacred writer intended to express and actually expressed in particular circumstances by using contemporary literary forms in accordance with the situation of his own time and culture. For the correct understanding of what the sacred author wanted to assert, due attention must be paid to the customary and characteristic styles of feeling, speaking and narrating which prevailed at the time of the sacred writer, and to the patterns men normally employed at that period in their everyday dealings with one another. (Dei Verbum, III, 12, 2)

This is a far more nuanced understanding than that of the Protestant Movement.

The fact is that many Christians are questioning the "only way" interpretation of the texts you mention. You may like to call such....."cultists", "some people in the Churches" and then proclaim that you yourself are only here to teach what the Bible teaches. I presume those people pray as you do, have a relationship with God as you do. If you wish to say that they are not "true" Christians, then that is your judgement, and not necessarily Gods.

It Vatican 11, the faithful of the Catholic Church were asked, in the light of what has always been claimed...i.e. that "outside the Church there is no salvation", to consider deeply just who/what constitutes the true Church.

Some will consider deeply, some will presume.

 

[EmSw]

What I am doing here is judging what people say, according to what the Bible teaches. The more familiar you get with what the Bible says, the more you will be able to discern truth from fiction, and the more you will be able to discern essential truth from non-essential (i.e. secondary matters). Most of the churches teach essential truths of Christianity, namely things about the nature of God, the deity of Christ, the work of Christ, the way of salvation, etc. according to Biblical teaching. It is in mostly secondary matters that various churches disagree, and it certainly doesn't make any one a cult.

What I am judging here is the statement about what Swedenborg taught, that if one believes in other religions that they can make it to heaven, and I'm saying this statement is completely unbiblical. There is only one way to paradise, and it is through Christ alone. 1 John 5:10 "The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son."
TD

Perhaps you haven't read the very words of the Savior.

John 5
28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

 

[-57]

to be regenerated is to be born from above which means for our spirits to be alive in Christ rather than our lower natures leading us along. we must be the virgin Mary and give birth to Christ.
View attachment 176605

We must be a Virgin mary and give birth to Christ? Seriously? Where is this found in the bible?

Just for the record the bible warns about adding to the scripture and presenting a false bible. If you would like i could find those verses for you.

 

[-57]

My only understanding is that salvation is pure gift; realised, not attained; given, not earned.

If your own understanding is different, then we shall have to agree to disagree.

Thank you.

What is your definition of salvation?

 

[-57]

Perhaps you haven't read the very words of the Savior.

John 5
28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

In a previous post i started to address this issue when i said:..."After the resurrection there will be two judgements....the White Throne for the non-believers and the Judgement (bema) seat of Christ for the believers."

It is at the Bema seat that what you have done good will be judged.

 

[Noxot]

We must be a Virgin mary and give birth to Christ? Seriously? Where is this found in the bible?

Just for the record the bible warns about adding to the scripture and presenting a false bible. If you would like i could find those verses for you.

do you not see that it was the virgin Mary that has given birth to Christ? I could throw scriptures at you all day but I find that most Christians are unable to see.

Swedenborg saw a lot and that is probably why so many Christians reject him. do not be in amazement for many in the days of Jesus also rejected him and murdered him in the name of God.

 

[-57]

do you not see that it was the virgin Mary that has given birth to Christ? I could throw scriptures at you all day but I find that most Christians are unable to see.

Swedenborg saw a lot and that is probably why so many Christians reject him. do not be in amazement for many in the days of Jesus also rejected him and murdered him in the name of God.

I know what the bible says about the Virgin Mary. The problem for you is when you said ...."we" must be a Virgin mary and give birth to Christ.
I asked for scriptural support. You didn't provide any. Instead you shifted the proof to Swedenborg and compared him to how people also rejected Jesus. I snickered at that concept.
So, present the biblical scripture. If you can't do that at least present the biblical concept that clearly indicates Swedenborg was even remotely correct.

 

[Albion]

do you not see that it was the virgin Mary that has given birth to Christ? .

Yeh, sure. But you said that we must be the (or a) Virgin Mary. .

 

[Noxot]

I know what the bible says about the Virgin Mary. The problem for you is when you said ...."we" must be a Virgin mary and give birth to Christ.
I asked for scriptural support. You didn't provide any. Instead you shifted the proof to Swedenborg and compared him to how people also rejected Jesus. I snickered at that concept.
So, present the biblical scripture. If you can't do that at least present the biblical concept that clearly indicates Swedenborg was even remotely correct.

I already gave you the scripture but you just don't get it. Swedenborg is not correct according to YOUR own perceptions of what the bible says and what God is about. most Christians can't seem to understand that they are the ones who by reading the bible give it an interpretation. the letter kills but the spirit gives life. so if you are not being lead by God then how can you understand what God says? many people thought they understood and yet why were they then the enemies of Christ?

why do most Christians act like they are immune from the pits that so many in the past fell into?

 

[Noxot]

Yeh, sure. But you said that we must be the (or a) Virgin Mary. .

yes that is right, only those who are virgins enter into the new jerusalem.

Rev 14:1-4 (YLT)
And I saw, and lo, a Lamb having stood upon the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty-four thousands, having the name of his Father written upon their foreheads; and I heard a voice out of the heaven, as a voice of many waters, and as a voice of great thunder, and a voice I heard of harpers harping with their harps, and they sing, as it were, a new song before the throne, and before the four living creatures, and the elders, and no one was able to learn the song except the hundred forty-four thousands, who have been bought from the earth; these are they who with women were not defiled, for they are virgin; these are they who are following the Lamb whithersoever he may go; these were bought from among men--a first-fruit to God and to the Lamb--

have you guys ever been to church and heard a sermon? because I have hardly ever went and have heard plenty of explanations from the saints of what the bible means. it is so easy to understand that even a child can know.

 

[Albion]

yes that is right, only those who are virgins enter into the new Jerusalem.

That's not what you said, however. You said that we must be a Virgin Mary. Maybe you were talking about cocktails.

 

[Noxot]

That's not what you said, however. You said that we must be a Virgin Mary. Maybe you were talking about cocktails.

no. but why do people seem to only be able to function in the wisdom of the world? everything I say is deeply biblical and it feels like the Christians I talk to have never read the bible.

 

[-57]

I already gave you the scripture but you just don't get it. Swedenborg is not correct according to YOUR own perceptions of what the bible says and what God is about. most Christians can't seem to understand that they are the ones who by reading the bible give it an interpretation. the letter kills but the spirit gives life. so if you are not being lead by God then how can you understand what God says? many people thought they understood and yet why were they then the enemies of Christ?

why do most Christians act like they are immune from the pits that so many in the past fell into?

I missed where you gave us the scripture....can you please present again where you say WE must give birth to Christ.

 

[Albion]

no. but why do people seem to only be able to function in the wisdom of the world? everything I say is deeply biblical and it feels like the Christians I talk to have never read the bible.

Frankly, it sounds to us like theological double talk, especially since there are a lot of words but almost no tangible message.

Just sayin. I'm sure that you think it was deeply spiritual and thoroughly understandable. BTW, post 117 was very straightforward. I'm hoping you answer it.

 

[-57]

yes that is right, only those who are virgins enter into the new jerusalem.

Rev 14:1-4 (YLT)
And I saw, and lo, a Lamb having stood upon the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty-four thousands, having the name of his Father written upon their foreheads; and I heard a voice out of the heaven, as a voice of many waters, and as a voice of great thunder, and a voice I heard of harpers harping with their harps, and they sing, as it were, a new song before the throne, and before the four living creatures, and the elders, and no one was able to learn the song except the hundred forty-four thousands, who have been bought from the earth; these are they who with women were not defiled, for they are virgin; these are they who are following the Lamb whithersoever he may go; these were bought from among men--a first-fruit to God and to the Lamb--

have you guys ever been to church and heard a sermon? because I have hardly ever went and have heard plenty of explanations from the saints of what the bible means. it is so easy to understand that even a child can know.

According to what you presented only 144,000 will be saved....are you sure you want to make that claim?

 

[-57]

no. but why do people seem to only be able to function in the wisdom of the world? everything I say is deeply biblical and it feels like the Christians I talk to have never read the bible.

Perhaps if what you post you substain with the bible....people will take your "gospel" seriously.