Sunrise, Sunset: A Question for Flat-Earthers

[SkyWriting]

Recall your geometry lessons in school: the angle of a straight line is 180 degrees. If the earth is flat, sunrise and sunset should be 180 degrees apart. But sunrise and sunset aren't 180 degrees apart as observed on most places on earth at various times of the years.

At 45 degrees north of the equator, on December 22 the sun rises at 123 degrees (roughly SE) and sets at 237 degrees (roughly southwest.) This is only a 114 degree difference.

On June 20, the numbers are 55 degrees (a change of 68 degrees to the north) and 305 degrees (68 degrees farther north.) This is a difference of 250 degrees.

If the sun is travelling in a straight line across the sky, the only explanation for the differences between the differences of 114 and 205 degrees is that the earth is not flat but a sphere.

Even more revealing is that at the poles, at certain times of the year the sun never goes below the horizon.

The Earth is mostly flat. About 99.8 percent off of flat.
And it seems level and flat no matter what country you have your glass of water.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Recall your geometry lessons in school: the angle of a straight line is 180 degrees. If the earth is flat, sunrise and sunset should be 180 degrees apart. But sunrise and sunset aren't 180 degrees apart as observed on most places on earth at various times of the years.

Yes, let’s recall our geometry lessens.

Since a flat earth requires the sun to traverse an arc, not a straight line....... since the placements of the continents are not on straight lines (check UN map)......

I sense a straw man occurring......

Why don’t you demonstrate those geometry lessons and map that straight line to polar co-ordinates and get back with us with the results...... I promise you no line between two points except directly opposite across the map will be 180 degrees.......

 

[46AND2]

The sun travels in a circle, as described by others. This is the reason there is not a 180 degree difference between rise and set. At different times of the year, the sun's orbit is smaller or larger, so this angle changes.

What is the diameter of the sun, and how far from earth is it?

 

[Justatruthseeker]

What is the diameter of the sun, and how far from earth is it?

https://wiki.tfes.org/Distance_to_the_Sun

Well according to FE it depends on your model and starting assumptions, doesn't it...

Millersville University goes over the two ways of interpreting Eratosthenes' data. The first part of the article goes over the interpretation of his data under a Round Earth model, and the bottom part of the article goes over an interpretation of the data under a Flat Earth model.

Here's a link which explains the idea: http://www.millersville.edu/physics/experiments/058/index.php. The first part goes over the Round Earth explanation for how the sun can be computed millions of miles distant. At the bottom there is a Flat Earth explanation for how the sun can be computed as being very close to the earth's surface. Scroll all the way to the bottom to the "alternative model" section. You will find that we can use Eratosthenes' data, in conjunction with the assumption of a Flat Earth, to confirm that in FET the sun is very near to the earth's surface.

Hence, if we assume that the earth is flat, triangles and trigonometry can demonstrate that the celestial bodies are fairly close to the earth.

Eratosthenes' model depends on the assumption that the earth is a globe and
that the sun is far away and therefore produces parallel rays of light all
over the earth. If the sun is nearby, then shadows will change length even
for a flat earth. A flat earth model is sketched below. The vertical stick
casts shadows that grow longer as the stick moves to the left, away from the
closest point to the sun. (The sun is at height h above the earth.)

A little trigonometry shows that

Using the values 50 degrees and 60 degrees as measured on the trip, with
b=1000 miles, we find that h is approximately 2000 miles. This relatively close
sun would have been quite plausible to the ancients.

Continuing the calculation, we find that a is approximately 2400 miles and the two
distances R1 and R2 are approximately 3000 and 3900 miles, respectively.

There is no other way to get a distance for the sun. Just looking at it from a single point on earth will not tell you its distance, you must look at it from several points and account for the curvature or non-curvature of the distance between those points.

Please note: The writer of that article makes a unrelated side comment about the Flat Earth model --

That is, as we move from Florida to Pennsylvania, our distance from the sun
increases by about 30%. As a consequence the apparant size of the sun should
decrease by 30%. We see no noticeable change in the apparent size of the sun as
we make the trip. We conclude that the flat earth/near sun model does not work.

This has nothing to do with Erasthone's calculations for the sun's distance and the writer apparently did not read Chapter 10 of Earth Not a Globe. See: Magnification of the Sun at Sunset

 

[Doctor.Sphinx]

What is the diameter of the sun, and how far from earth is it?

Not very large and not very far, compared with the usual numbers in astronomy. From memory, about 30 miles diameter. The distance is similar to that of the stars (within the firmament, so reasonably close).

 

[46AND2]

Not very large and not very far, compared with the usual numbers in astronomy. From memory, about 30 miles diameter. The distance is similar to that of the stars (within the firmament, so reasonably close).

Is the distance between the sun and earth constant?

 

[Doctor.Sphinx]

Is the distance between the sun and earth constant?

Probably not. Certainly the distance between any point on the Earth and the sun changes with the sun's movement (even the northern-most tip about which the sun revolves, but this point more gradually). But with it's spiral motion between Summer and Winter, and the possibility the firmament is a dome shape (unconfirmed), this would mean the sun's distance to Earth is not constant.

 

[tas8831]

It's not. The Flerfer fantasy that one cannot get to Antarctica is simply false.



Absolutely false. The McMurdo and Palmer Stations have 24/7 live webcams and the Amundsen-Scott Station has near 24/7 during the Austral summer.
https://www.usap.gov/videoclipsandmaps/mcmwebcam.cfm
The Australian Davis Station has a time lapse skycam updated daily.
http://www.antarctica.gov.au/webcams/davis



As I said above, the Flerfer fantasy that anyone is banned from Antarctica is simply a myth. There are nearly 100 camps, stations and bases on the continent with at least 2500 personnel over the summer. That doesn't include cargo ships and research vessels there for a short period of time. There are also numerous outfits that organize non-governmental expeditions.
https://antarctic-logistics.com/

Oh, and NASA has nothing to do with Antarctica. The American presence is run by the National Science Foundation and the U.S. Antarctic Program. There are also 20 other countries that have a presence on the continent.

And I can actually see banning tourists - it is bad enough when tourists climb on sculptures to take selfies - imagine the costs and danger of rescuing tourists who thought it would be awesome to try to run off on their own in Antarctica...

 

[tas8831]

You mean the Russians and U.S. are both in on a joint-conspiracy to convince everyone the world is round for no apparent reason whatosever?

And Japan... and India... And China... And the ESA...

Do you realize how silly that sounds?

All part of the 'woke martyrdom' complex.

(Or maybe you do realize how silly it sounds. Are you making fun of flat-Earthers? Because I feel like anyone who posts stuff this silly can only be doing it to make fun of flat-Earthers.)

One can only hope...

 

[46AND2]

Probably not. Certainly the distance between any point on the Earth and the sun changes with the sun's movement (even the northern-most tip about which the sun revolves, but this point more gradually). But with it's spiral motion between Summer and Winter, and the possibility the firmament is a dome shape (unconfirmed), this would mean the sun's distance to Earth is not constant.

With a diameter of only 30 miles, would not a change in distance from the earth be extremely noticeable?

 

[tas8831]

Probably not. Certainly the distance between any point on the Earth and the sun changes with the sun's movement (even the northern-most tip about which the sun revolves, but this point more gradually). But with it's spiral motion between Summer and Winter, and the possibility the firmament is a dome shape (unconfirmed), this would mean the sun's distance to Earth is not constant.

So, if a person wants to fly from Malvinas Argentinas Ushuaia International Airport in southern Argentina to Canberra, Australia - how long of a flight is it (ignoring stop overs)?

On the fake globe earth, the distance is about 9000 km. On the flat earth map, the two are on opposite sides of the earth:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Rs8wjZYIE...ow/s1600/Azimuthal+Equidistant+Projection.jpg

And clearly much, much farther apart.

How to account for the discrepancy?

 

[Strathos]

And I can actually see banning tourists - it is bad enough when tourists climb on sculptures to take selfies - imagine the costs and danger of rescuing tourists who thought it would be awesome to try to run off on their own in Antarctica...

I have a friend who visited Antarctica. She even sent me photos she took next to penguins. But I guess she must be part of the conspiracy too.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

I have a friend who visited Antarctica. She even sent me photos she took next to penguins. But I guess she must be part of the conspiracy too.

I would recommend checking her DNA, she might not even be the same person because, you know, NASA.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What's the old saying...... ?


Birds of a feather flock together ......

I have a friend who visited Antarctica. She even sent me photos she took next to penguins. But I guess she must be part of the conspiracy too.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Is the distance between the sun and earth constant?

It is constant until one of them moves......

 

[Doctor.Sphinx]

I have a friend who visited Antarctica. She even sent me photos she took next to penguins. But I guess she must be part of the conspiracy too.

Antarctica is a big place. Not all areas are out-of-bounds all the time. But certainly there is a reason the governments of the world have conspired to control this no-man's-land.

 

[Doctor.Sphinx]

So, if a person wants to fly from Malvinas Argentinas Ushuaia International Airport in southern Argentina to Canberra, Australia - how long of a flight is it (ignoring stop overs)?

On the fake globe earth, the distance is about 9000 km. On the flat earth map, the two are on opposite sides of the earth:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Rs8wjZYIEEg/VinyzHEsnAI/AAAAAAAAB4s/oRXi1JJ-kow/s1600/Azimuthal+Equidistant+Projection.jpg

And clearly much, much farther apart.

How to account for the discrepancy?

Show me an accurate globe, and I will pick faults in that also. The country sizes don't correspond on a globe. Neither Flat-Earth believers nor Globalists have ever produced an accurate, to scale model of Earth.

 

[Doctor.Sphinx]

With a diameter of only 30 miles, would not a change in distance from the earth be extremely noticeable?

Of course. That's why we have sunset and sunrise, night and day. The sun going over the horizon is when the sun travels too far to see (his light obstructed by the atmosphere).

 

[46AND2]

Of course. That's why we have sunset and sunrise, night and day. The sun going over the horizon is when the sun travels too far to see (his light obstructed by the atmosphere).

Ok, let me rephrase. If a person looks up at the sky at NOON every day, is the sun always the same distance away from him?

 

[Justatruthseeker]

I have a friend who visited Antarctica. She even sent me photos she took next to penguins. But I guess she must be part of the conspiracy too.

And only saw the places she was allowed to go..... right?