Sunday Is Not the Sabbath

[ozso]

The ones I randomly checked:
a) do not exist (its not possible to find them)
b) do not have a website to verify they belong to the list or if its just 2 people or what is going on
c) some I was able to actually find do not have anything about Sabbath on their website and meet on Sunday as other Christians

The list is totally unreliable.

Even if they all exist, most/all of them most likely started no earlier than the 19th century. And they would all only be a drop in the bucket of 45,000 denominations.

 

[trophy33]

You claim some do not exist - list some a few of the ones you would like to claim "do not exist" from the list in the link you said you looked at.

Apostolic Sacred Name Fellowship, for example.

 

[ozso]

Not sure what you mean by this sentence.

I think he wants you to list all of the ones you can't find to exist, as if it matters. Considering that even if 1,000 denominations are sabbatarian, there are 44,000 that aren't. Also probably most of them were started by a former member of the SDA.

 

[BobRyan]

Even if they all exist, most/all of them most likely started no earlier than the 19th century.

Jews were around for a very long time.
Christian Jews lived in Jerusalem for a very long time.
Early church groups kept the Sabbath

And they would all only be a drop in the bucket of 45,000 denominations.

non-Christian Jews far outnumbered Christians in the first century. You are using the non-Christian Jews' logic that Christianity was merely a small sect by comparison.

Choose the Bible instead.

 

[BobRyan]

I think he wants you to list all of the ones you can't find to exist,

Nope - I wanted him to give us a sample of some that he claims do not exist yet they show up in the list.

 

[BobRyan]

Apostolic Sacred Name Fellowship, for example.

565 show up here

Sabbath Keeping Churches - Sabbath Keeping Denominations

A list of Sabbath keeping Churches that are all different denominations. There are now over 500 Sabbath keeping Churches and the count is growing.

www.the-ten-commandments.org

"Apostolic Sacred Name Fellowship" is in that list as well

 

[trophy33]

Sabbath Keeping Churches - Sabbath Keeping Denominations

A list of Sabbath keeping Churches that are all different denominations. There are now over 500 Sabbath keeping Churches and the count is growing.

www.the-ten-commandments.org

"Apostolic Sacred Name Fellowship" is in that list as well

The list is very similar (if not a copy&paste, not willing to check it one by one) to the list you linked before, so I suppose somebody just reused it.

The "Apostolic Sacred Name Fellowship" is nowhere to be found, just on this list.

Edit: the list you referred to before actually says the source is this link you used now, so I am not sure what is your point.

 

[ozso]

Choose the Bible instead.

I do, that's why I'm not a sabbatarian.

 

[ozso]

The list is very similar (if not a copy&paste, not willing to check it one by one) to the list you linked before, so I suppose somebody just reused it.

The "Apostolic Sacred Name Fellowship" is nowhere to be found, just on this list.

Edit: the list you referred to before actually says the source is this link you used now, so not sure what your point is.

That there are hundreds of set apart special remnants? I mean, I'm sure they would all make that claim.

 

[BobRyan]

The list is very similar (if not a copy&paste, not willing to check it one by one) to the list you linked before, so I suppose somebody just reused it.

The "Apostolic Sacred Name Fellowship" is nowhere to be found, just on this list.

Edit: the list you referred to before actually says the source is this link you used now, so I am not sure what is your point.

Sacred Name movement is easy to find on the internet even among Sabbath keeping groups.

 

[BobRyan]

I do, that's why I'm not a sabbatarian.

consider actually quoting the bible to make your case instead of avoiding the details so necessary to skim over , when making your suggestions.


Now I will post "God's Word" ... and you will continue to not address a single highlighted detail in it.

Mark 7:7-13

6 But He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy about you hypocrites, as it is written:​

‘This people honors Me with their lips,​

But their heart is far away from Me.​

7 And in vain do they worship Me,​

Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’​

8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”​

Christ condemns them for the very thing you are arguing FOR in the case of the Sabbath commandment each time you say we need to edit/delete that part that is Ex 20:10 and Ex 20:11 from God's Commandment

9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘The one who speaks evil of father or mother, is certainly to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a person says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is, given to God),’ 12 you no longer allow him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thereby invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”​

And in Matt 5 Jesus condemns those who argue that He is setting aside the Commandments.

Matt 5:17 “Do not presume that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter shall pass from the Law, until all is accomplished! 19 Therefore, whoever nullifies one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

In Mark 2:23-28
1. The Sabbath was made FOR mankind
2. The Son of Man is LORD of the Sabbath (the LORD's Day)
3. vs 23 starts with the activity of David and no credible Bible scholar on Earth claims the Sabbath was not in full force at the time of David. And we all know it.
4. In Matt 12:5 the same account is reported and we see that Christ lumps in the work of PRIESTS on the Sabbath in with the disciples' activity of working with Christ to spread the gospel and picking a handful of wheat as they walk with Christ on Sabbath.
no credible Bible scholar on Earth claims the Sabbath was not in full force as soon as the priests did their first Sabbath service since that is work of the priests. And we all know it..

All Christian bible translations - have this text after vs 7 saying "do not take God's name in vain"

Ex 20:
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 For six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath of the Lord your God; on it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male slave or your female slave, or your cattle, or your resident who stays with you. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and He rested on the seventh day; for that reason the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.


All Christian bible translations - have this text for Gen 2:1-3
Genesis 2:
2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Super easy Bible texts - and we can all read them.

No wonder the Word of God says that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

No wonder the NT writers report "EVERY SABBATH" Gospel sermons Acts 18:4 to both gentiles and Jews and not one reference at all to "every week day 1 " Gospel sermons to gentiles and Jews

 

[trophy33]

Sacred Name movement is easy to find on the internet even among Sabbath keeping groups.

"Apostolic Sacred Name Fellowship" is the name. Find it and provide the link.

Believer's Advocate, Building Bridges - find those too and provide the link.

Berean Church of God, Christian Family Church of God - prove they keep Sabbath, I found only Sunday services.

Barnabas Ministries, Bibleway Church, Celebration Church of God - prove they keep Sabbath.

"Brown, Frank and Connie" or "Bro. Lester Anderson, Salem Acres" or "Charles Lindsey"... - Like... really?

Do you check your sources or did you just like it because the list looks long?

 

[ozso]

Sacred Name movement is easy to find on the internet even among Sabbath keeping groups.

How about the Worldwide Church of God? That one is easy to look up.

"Armstrong’s study of the Bible led him to conclude that it was the inspired word of God, that Jewish holy days, festivals, and dietary restrictions (Leviticus 11) should be observed, and that the Sabbath should be honoured on Saturday."

 

[ozso]

"Apostolic Sacred Name Fellowship" is the name. Find it and provide the link.

Believer's Advocate, Building Bridges - find those too and provide the link.

Berean Church of God, Christian Family Church of God - prove they keep Sabbath, I found only Sunday services.

Barnabas Ministries, Bibleway Church, Celebration Church of God - prove they keep Sabbath.

"Brown, Frank and Connie" or "Bro. Lester Anderson, Salem Acres" or "Charles Lindsey"... - Like... really?

Do you check your sources or did you just like it because the list looks long?

The list doesn't look so good when checking the details.

 

[ozso]

You mean "has God really said"??

We see the "Has God really said" tactic first tried in Genesis 3.

Fine - that is "your word"...

Now I will post "God's Word"




Super easy Bible texts - and we can all read them.

No wonder the Word of God says that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

No wonder the NT writers report "EVERY SABBATH" Gospel sermons Acts 18:4 to both gentiles and Jews and not one reference at all to "every week day 1 " Gospel sermons to gentiles and Jews

Has God really said no more circumcision? That it's okay to trim your beard? That you don't have to wear tassels? That you can wear clothing made of two different blends? That a woman doesn't have to quarantine during her menstrual cycle? Yes, and much more of what God said was either forbidden or mandatory under the Old Covenant.

Acts 2:46 says they gathered daily.

Acts 20:7 says they assembled on the first day of the week; Sunday.

Most everyone who reads the Bible knows that they went to preach to the unconverted in the synagogues on Saturday, because that's when and where large groups of unconverted Jews and proselyte gentiles could be found.

 

[Lost4words]

What is more important?

Keeping the sabbath or believing in Our Lord Jesus Christ as Son of God and true messiah.

The jews believe in the first but reject the second! Where does that leave them?

I got nothing against the Jews. I love them as brothers and sisters. I am just pointing out what is truly important in our faith.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

What is more important?

Keeping the sabbath or believing in Our Lord Jesus Christ as Son of God and true messiah.

Why does there have to be a choice? Believing in our Lord Jesus Christ means we would believe and have faith in what He teaches and commands us and do them. Rev 22:14

The Sabbath is more than just a day, it is a memorial that we worship the one true God of Creation Exodus 20:11, which is the same God of Judgement Rev 14:7. Only God can sanctify us because we cannot sanctify ourselves. Eze 20:12

 

[BobRyan]

Has God really said no more circumcision?

No text in OT or NT says gentiles need to be circumcised to be saved which is the issue in Acts 15:1-3. you are conflating the correction of new-laws invented by man-made tradition in the NT by NT Christians - with real Bible laws. Don't confuse correction of tradition as if it were "correction of the Bible".

In Acts 21 Paul is "accused" of teaching Jews not to circumcise their children and is asked to give PROOF that he most certainly is not teaching that... Paul then provides "the proof".

That it's okay to trim your beard? That you don't have to wear tassels? That you can wear clothing made of two different blends?

Is that how you propose to attack "do not take God's name in vain" ? with "tassels".

So many bible texts given here that you are consistently skimming over - so you keep circling back to the need to "read" them.
Deut 5:22 "God spoke these TEN commandments... and ADDED NO MORE".

There was no time in the OT where God said gentiles needed to become Jews to be saved.

That a woman doesn't have to quarantine during her menstrual cycle? Yes, and much more of what God said was either forbidden or mandatory under the Old Covenant.

Your "trash the bible" idea is not logical. The fact that health laws exist in the Bible is not proof that God's word should be trashed.

Acts 2:46 says they gathered daily.

It does not say that they kept Sabbath daily or that every day was "The Lord's Day" or that every day was "kept holy" because on a dedicated (sanctified unto the Lord) day - no secular work is allowed.

But it does say that "EVERY SABBATH" Paul was preaching the gospel to both Jews and gentiles in Acts 18:4 ..

skimming over Bible details does not help your argument.

Acts 20:7 says they assembled on the first day of the week; Sunday.

But it does not say "every Sunday" and it gives the REASON for that gathering as a Saturday evening farewell meeting for Paul who was planning all-day travel on the next morning - on Sunday morning... all travel, not all-day holy day, not all-day Sabbath.

EVERY reference to a weekly worship event called Sabbath in the NT is about Saturday not Sunday.

Most everyone who reads the Bible knows that they went to preach to the unconverted in the synagogues on Saturday

What they did NOT do (as we see in Acts 13) is say "come to our Sunday service tomorrow" so then in Acts 13 it is GENTILES -- not Jews - asking for "more Gospel preaching" to be scheduled for them "the NEXT Sabbath" after hearing the Gospel on the Sabbath they are meeting.

It is GENTILES attending "every Sabbath" in Acts 18:4 hearing the gospel preached.

NOT ONE single "EVERY week-day-1" in the NT talking about gospel preaching or a worship service. As we all know.

And not one denomination argues the list of topics you give above - as a reason to downsize the Commandments of God , to downsize the TEN to "the NINE". As we all know.

 

[ozso]

No text in OT or NT says gentiles need to be circumcised to be saved which is the issue in Acts 15:1-3. you are conflating the correction of new-laws invented by man-made tradition in the NT by NT Christians - with real Bible laws. Don't confuse correction of tradition as if it were "correction of the Bible".

In Acts 21 Paul is "accused" of teaching Jews not to circumcise their children and is asked to give PROOF that he most certainly is not teaching that... Paul then provides "the proof".

You're so close to getting the full picture of the difference between the old covenant with the jews and the new covenant with christians.

Is that how you propose to attack "do not take God's name in vain" ? with "tassels".

So many bible texts given here that you are consistently skimming over - so you keep circling back to the need to "read" them.
Deut 5:22 "God spoke these TEN commandments... and ADDED NO MORE".

There was no time in the OT where God said gentiles needed to become Jews to be saved.

Your "trash the bible" idea is not logical. The fact that health laws exist in the Bible is not proof that God's word should be trashed.

It does not say that they kept Sabbath daily or that every day was "The Lord's Day" or that every day was "kept holy" because on a dedicated (sanctified unto the Lord) day - no secular work is allowed.

But it does say that "EVERY SABBATH" Paul was preaching the gospel to both Jews and gentiles in Acts 18:4 ..

skimming over Bible details does not help your argument.

But it does not say "every Sunday" and it gives the REASON for that gathering as a Saturday evening farewell meeting for Paul who was planning all-day travel on the next morning - on Sunday morning... all travel, not all-day holy day, not all-day Sabbath.

EVERY reference to a weekly worship event called Sabbath in the NT is about Saturday not Sunday.

What they did NOT do (as we see in Acts 13) is say "come to our Sunday service tomorrow" so then in Acts 13 it is GENTILES -- not Jews - asking for "more Gospel preaching" to be scheduled for them "the NEXT Sabbath" after hearing the Gospel on the Sabbath they are meeting.

It is GENTILES attending "every Sabbath" in Acts 18:4 hearing the gospel preached.

NOT ONE single "EVERY week-day-1" in the NT talking about gospel preaching or a worship service. As we all know.

It's gotta be tough being so stuck on a day that's never had any significance for Christians.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

It's gotta be tough being so stuck on a day that's never had any significance for Christians.

For Seventh Day Adventism it is their founders who set the trend as far as Saturday observance goes. Visions and prophecies were claimed as proofs of the doctrine. But from the early centuries of the Christian era Sunday has been the day that Christians observed for worship and rest.