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guuila
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Great! That means the answer is "no" that your faith is not God's work, thus your justification depends on you first and foremost. So glad we finally got to the bottom of this.
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Sufficient vs Necessary
- Thread starter Skala
- Start date
Great! That means the answer is "no" that your faith is not God's work, thus your justification depends on you first and foremost. So glad we finally got to the bottom of this.
Part of his work is also "working in us to will and to act" Phil 2:13
But it seems like from our discussions, you deny this part. Correct me if I'm wrong.
You deny that God works in us to will and to act. In your view, God has nothing to do with how we will (our willingness, our desires, etc) nor how we act (our actions, our choices, etc)
To you, all of those things are completely autonomous.
Calvinists believe God is responsible for us coming to faith (ie, he gives us our faith)
You believe that we are responsible for us coming to faith (ie, He doesn't give us faith)
You are even quoted here as saying:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7788258-5/#post64867994
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False. A simple google search on the nature of "sufficiency' and "necessity" will reveal I merely repeated what is universally known and true:
Wikipedia entry:
Necessity and sufficiency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Philosophy website:
Necessary vs. Sufficient Conditions
Law School website
Necessity vs. Sufficiency
Department of Philosophy at a university
The Concept of Necessary Conditions and Sufficient Conditions
The concepts of sufficiency and necessity are laws of logic. It's not something little ole' me invented. But I am flattered you'd think that
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Of course, those that willing sin and rejoice in sin are in need of Jesus. Those that are of God already, are only at fault by those that worship sinful ways. Meaning no fault at all. In other words, without those that willfully sin, perfection is already all.
So all blame of wickedness is upon those that willfully sin, and or sinned willfully.
In other words, all of you who are innocent, are of God. Those that willfully sinned, knowingly, arent of God, yet God remains faithful to mercy, to forgive and consider the repentant.
Im aware that the fast paced ones will reject me, yet God will stand firm and correct every offense.
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False. A simple google search on the nature of "sufficiency' and "necessity" will reveal I merely repeated what is universally known and true:
Wikipedia entry:
Necessity and sufficiency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Philosophy website:
Necessary vs. Sufficient Conditions
Law School website
Necessity vs. Sufficiency
Department of Philosophy at a university
The Concept of Necessary Conditions and Sufficient Conditions
The concepts of sufficiency and necessity are laws of logic. It's not something little ole' me invented. But I am flattered you'd think that
All of that and yet I see your own words typed in your original post.
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The actual dictionary doesn't include your description, regardless of how much you'd like it to.
skala version 1.9?
Winking is for scandals.
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Goodbook
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Vain philosophies of men much? Why is the OP arguing this?
Just go with what the bible says, that we are saved by grace through faith. Grace is conditional upon faith.
Me thinks the OP have grace mixed up with mercy, which is unconditional.
After all, in Jude's letter, it's talking about false teachers creeping in to churches abusing Gods grace, as a license to sin. It says we are to earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints, not grace.
I smell something fishy here. also, we are not of paul or of apollos or of Calvin. it seems like people who believe a certain doctrine want to make a name for themselves and divide the church, and look down on others for not adhering to their self imposed definitions of what the bible says.
Just go with what the bible says, that we are saved by grace through faith. Grace is conditional upon faith.
Me thinks the OP have grace mixed up with mercy, which is unconditional.
After all, in Jude's letter, it's talking about false teachers creeping in to churches abusing Gods grace, as a license to sin. It says we are to earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints, not grace.
I smell something fishy here. also, we are not of paul or of apollos or of Calvin. it seems like people who believe a certain doctrine want to make a name for themselves and divide the church, and look down on others for not adhering to their self imposed definitions of what the bible says.
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I don't think it is wise to take 1 Corinthians 3:4 out of context, like you have done here. That passage is not about divisions over doctrinal differences, but rather following personalities, like a fan club.
Surely you see the difference.
Jesus divided over doctrine when He rebuked the pharisees. He also told his disciples to watch out for false teachers. Thus, Jesus believed the truth was important
Calvinism vs Arminianism is not about John Calvin and James Arminius, but about doctrines, ie, beliefs. Those terms (Calvinism and Arminianism) are merely nicknames for a set of doctrines. It has nothing to do with the historical figures themselves.
That is where you are wrong, for faith itself is a product of grace. Surely you credit God for the fact that you are currently a believer? Surely you credit God for the fact that you have faith in Christ and are thus saved?
Or maybe I am mistaken and you credit yourself for those things? Maybe you can tell me.
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I figured that was already obvious. Care to link a true definition of the such?
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I provided links to the logical (ie, pertaining to logic) concepts of the difference between a necessary condition and a sufficient condition. Feel free to do your own footwork to refute or disprove the OP.
Good luck
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