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Submissive vs equal partnership

Noxot

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Im someone who hasnt had much relationship experience but now that I have found faith and im on the right path, im feeling more ready to explore. Before I start exploring though I was wondering whether its still generally quite common for Christian men to desire a woman to submit to them, or whether its now more common to want an equal partnership?

I think it might depend on their political affiliation. you can get a general feel for a persons kind of beliefs by their personality traits. different political parties tend to have people with specific kinds of traits. in general republicans are going to lean toward them wanting their woman to submit. liberals would probably favor equality. libertarians too.

I don't know if there are more republican or liberal Christians.

They seem happy to see me. In America, I got snubbed a lot.

One reason why Jesus came is to break the bondage of Adam and Eve's original sin.

- Bondage 1 = death ; Jesus promised eternal life
- Bondage 2 = cursed ground ; You will lay hands on the sick and they will be healed, water turns wine
- Bondage 3 = hard toil ; His toil is easy
- Bondage 4 = inequality ; Everyone who does the Will of God are equally brothers and sisters

well that's good news.

hmm the snubbing I wonder where it comes from. we americans seem to be less friendly greeters compared to some other countries. this one south korean lady that is traveling around the world on her bicycle said that she has to worry more about people stealing her bike or something off it in more develop countries. pretty sad.
 
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Doveaman

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Im someone who hasnt had much relationship experience but now that I have found faith and im on the right path, im feeling more ready to explore. Before I start exploring though I was wondering whether its still generally quite common for Christian men to desire a woman to submit to them, or whether its now more common to want an equal partnership?
I say both.

A wife submitting to her husband does not change over time.

And a husband loves his wife as an equal partner while remaining her head.

A marriage is to model the relationship of Christ to His church:

"Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her to make her holy..."
-- (Eph 5:24-26).

I'm assuming that if a woman finds a husband who truly loves her, she would want to submit to him.

It is my opinion that if a husband does not love his wife, she is not obligated to submit to him because he has already broken his obligation to her.
 
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Saucy

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The bondage of Eve's sin which is to submit to husband is no longer in effect when we live in Christ.
This isn't true at all. Paul wrote the verses about wives submitting to their husbands AFTER Christ had died and rose.

The problem is, people see the word submit and go nuts and think it's a one-sided deal that gives men permission to abuse their wives, and that's not true. Again, it's equal submission. Men have a bigger role to fill, as he is to:

-"Love your wife as Christ loved the Church."(Ephesians 5:25)
-"Love your wife in the same way that you love your body and your life."(Ephesians 5:28-33)
-"Be considerate as you live with your wife, with respect ..."(I Peter 3:7)
-"Do not be harsh with your wife."(Colossians 3:19)
-"The husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife."(I Corinthians 7:3-5)
-"Rejoice in your wife all your life. Let her body satisfy you. Be captivated with her."(Proverbs 5:18-19)
-"Do not be captivated by other women."(Proverbs 5:20)
-"Call your wife 'blessed' and praise her."(Proverbs 31:28-29)
-"Honor your marriage; keep it pure by remaining true to your wife in every way."(Hebrews 13:4)
-"Be thankful for your wife and realize the favor you have received from God."(Proverbs 18:22)

Again, the word 'submit' is scary in today's feminist culture, but there are more rules for men on how they should treat their wives, to guide, protect, and treasure them.
 
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Noxot

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Gen 1:27 (ESV2011)
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

God made them one then later after God put one into a deep sleep there were two. it was only in the condition of being called "deep sleep" that it would be possible to fall away from God but this condition is good because it makes us free from the necessity and thus in a sense slavery of God. that is why paul said it was the woman who was deceived and sinned as she represents the lower reality of a soul.

I wish people would stop looking at the bible as a historical or law type of book and start looking at it as a revelation from God about the nature of reality and our experience of it.

Col 2:2-3 (ESV2011)
that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, to reach all the riches of full assurance of understanding and the knowledge of God's mystery, which is Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

1Cor 2:6-10 (ESV2011)
Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away. But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. But, as it is written, “What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him”— these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.
 
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Swords&Sunflowers

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Yeah, that's true. :)

We love the King, because He first loved us. -- (1 John 4:19)

Yes, but that King, 1 John is talking about is God (the obvious capital H). LOL! I wanna say "Ladies first" but I could be misquoted. Lol this can get complicated. Bahahah. Anyways, for me, it should be the guy who initiates, just my own opinion, it's not law, not rule, just my preference.
 
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Doveaman

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Yes, but that King, 1 John is talking about is God (the obvious capital H). LOL!
Yes, I know.

Christ to His church.

Husband to his wife.
I wanna say "Ladies first" but I could be misquoted. Lol this can get complicated. Bahahah. Anyways, for me, it should be the guy who initiates, just my own opinion, it's not law, not rule, just my preference.
Yeah, I get what you mean.

It's us guys who should expose ourselves to possible rejection, just as Jesus did. :)
 
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timewerx

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This isn't true at all. Paul wrote the verses about wives submitting to their husbands AFTER Christ had died and rose.

I read the rest of your post and I admire your intentions.

Anyway, the Apostolic teachings on the subject is cultural in context. They had to blend in to avoid unwanted attention.

Otherwise, Christ, pushed for equality. But the time has not yet come for them.

But now, it has. And now, we can practice equality in the household.

Inequality is one of the bondage of Adam and Eve's sin. And Christ broke all of it - death, heavy burden, including inequality.
 
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Saucy

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Can you show us where Christ pushed for equality? That's such a modern term and one I don't see echoed anywhere in the bible regarding husband and wife. I'm in no way saying men are superior to women, but He made us different, with different roles and responsibilities.
 
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Noxot

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there is a difference in the tip of the iceberg and the entire thing but most people don't have enough faith to know that God lives in us and that there is liberty in the Son of God.
 
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Strider1002

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Well, the Bible compares a husband and wife with Christ and the church. So let’s see how that relationship works.

First of all, they wouldn’t be together if they didn’t agree on important, fundamental beliefs and goals. This is the basis for any close relationship. The church hears what Christ says and they say “Amen, that’s right.”

Second, they love each other. Love for your partner means you care about their good and, secondarily, their immediate happiness. What is good for us doesn’t always make us happy, but it benefits us in the long run. Christ has done everything He can do for the good of the church. A loving husband will do everything he can do for the good of his wife.

But the church also realizes that when it needs guidance or a decision, it looks to Christ. Since Christ IS God, He has the revelation and the wisdom to show us what is right. It is the husband’s responsibility to stay close to God so that he also has the revelation and wisdom to know what is right for the family (because when a man and woman get married, they become a family).

Now, a Christian man doesn’t seek to have control over another person. Leadership is not a perk; it is a solemn responsibility. God holds us accountable for how we lead and influence others.

CS Lewis made a good point: when two people disagree on a decision, they are deadlocked... unless one is the head. And since a husband and wife are one, a being cannot be in disagreement with itself and still function. The head makes the decision that is best for the unit (not just for himself, but for the whole unit), the other recognizes that it is for the best, and the whole being follows that decision. It is this way for Christ and the church; it is this way for marriage.

On the other hand, if you do not recognize Christ as your authority, then... you are not a Christian. It follows, then, that if you don’t see your husband as your authority, then you cannot be a Christian wife. Which is fine; if you don’t believe, then just go on and live your life the way you want.
 
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redblue22

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I don't really think about relationships as submissive or equal. For some reason it reminds me of people who believe that you must either be the controller or the one controlled. They see the whole world through that lens.

I do not understand why anyone must be a leader. We aren't charging off on horseback leading to new lands. There is no group following you. It is just you and one other person. Life isn't filled with critical choices where a man has to stand up and charge forward leading. Perhaps you can give some examples of a man leading this way.

As for Lewis, being the leader is not necessary for making a decision. Not all disagreements are deadlocked. Perhaps you can give some examples that you see as deadlocked and a man must take control.

Controllers are the kind of people who say things like, "If you disagree with me, then you are not a Christian." That is spiritual abuse buddy. Sorry, but you are not my leader and neither is Lewis. I think controllers are abusive. And to want that kind of control over one person is wanting to micromanage their life. What do you do when your follower says, "no"? What do you do? Do you accuse her of not being a Christian? Do you tell your church and pastor to be heavy on her because she is rebellious? Yell? Fight? Keep trying to have everything your way? Thump on the bible until she hates God too? Are you going to hit her? Force her to go to counseling that agrees with you? Rape her when she doesn't want you to touch her?

But you're not a controller, you're just living out your role as the leading headship.
 
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redblue22

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