Submissive vs equal partnership

[justaconfusedgirl]

Im someone who hasnt had much relationship experience but now that I have found faith and im on the right path, im feeling more ready to explore. Before I start exploring though I was wondering whether its still generally quite common for Christian men to desire a woman to submit to them, or whether its now more common to want an equal partnership?

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

actually, nowadays it's more common that men submit to women.

 

[name_is_irrelevant]

Before I start exploring though I was wondering whether its still generally quite common for Christian men to desire a woman to submit to them, or whether its now more common to want an equal partnership?

If they don't, they're either being disobedient or they haven't got up to that bit in the Bible yet.

Regardless, that call to submission is tempered with a call on a guy to love your wife as your own body. In addition, a guy has church authority over him, and if that church is functioning as it ought to (and sadly many don't), it will call him out if he's not loving his wife properly.

So in effect, while not equality in the sense of doing away with differing gender roles (as, say, feminists would understand equality), it's equality in terms of respect.

The relevant Bible passage, for reference:

Ephesians 5:22-33

Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— for we are members of his body. “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.​

So if a Christian guy ever thinks he is being granted a right to dictate to his wife based on whatever stupid whim he has, he doesn't. Of course people try to spin it this way, for no good reason.

More info here: https://www.gotquestions.org/wives-submit.html

 

[blackribbon]

Actually, if a woman makes it her decision to submit to her husband, when he makes a bad decision or misinterprets God's Word, he is now responsible for his own sin and leading her into sin. That is some heavy responsibility. I find it funny that men like to lord this verse over women.

 

[name_is_irrelevant]

Actually, if a woman makes it her decision to submit to her husband, when he makes a bad decision or misinterprets God's Word, he is now responsible for his own sin and leading her into sin. That is some heavy responsibility. I find it funny that men like to lord this verse over women.

Foolish men abuse the verse.
Foolish women demonize the verse.

 

[redblue22]

Im someone who hasnt had much relationship experience but now that I have found faith and im on the right path, im feeling more ready to explore. Before I start exploring though I was wondering whether its still generally quite common for Christian men to desire a woman to submit to them, or whether its now more common to want an equal partnership?

1. I would like to hear more about your faith. If you don't mind sharing, what do you believe?

2. I think you would know better to find out what is more common in your area of the UK.

3. In the part of the US I live, everything is across the board. In other words, you could easily meet people who believe one or the other.

 

[justaconfusedgirl]

1. I would like to hear more about your faith. If you don't mind sharing, what do you believe?

2. I think you would know better to find out what is more common in your area of the UK.

3. In the part of the US I live, everything is across the board. In other words, you could easily meet people who believe one or the other.

Im quite new to the world of faith so at the moment ive mostly been looking to learn more about Christianity and then want to get involved as I learn more and become more immersed in it. I live in a very pure way so it would suit me but there was an aspect of my life which was considered sinful, no other ways worked to deal with it so that originally brought me towards religion. As its all new to me thats probably why my questions might seem very basic. Thats good to know though

 

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

Yes.

 

[Saucy]

The president isn't pressed only on women. Men have the greater responsibility and it is up to you to decide to marry someone who has the right qualities of leadership without being abusive and controlling. The word 'submit' is very scary, especially in today's culture, but there's equal submission going on.

 

[bcbsr]

Im someone who hasnt had much relationship experience but now that I have found faith and im on the right path, im feeling more ready to explore. Before I start exploring though I was wondering whether its still generally quite common for Christian men to desire a woman to submit to them, or whether its now more common to want an equal partnership?

Another terms for these positions are complementarian and egalitarian. The choice for a Christian is either to conform to the worldly way of thinking, or conform to the scriptures. I notice you don't ask as to what the scriptures teach on the issue. You might familiarize yourself with relevant passages such as:

1Tim 2:11-14
1Peter 3:1-6
Eph 5:21-24
1Cor 14:34,35

You might ask yourself the question as to whether you desire a man conformed to the scriptures or conformed to the world.

 

[timewerx]

Before I start exploring though I was wondering whether its still generally quite common for Christian men to desire a woman to submit to them, or whether its now more common to want an equal partnership?

It's now more common to want equal partnership.

 

[timewerx]

Im quite new to the world of faith so at the moment ive mostly been looking to learn more about Christianity and then want to get involved as I learn more and become more immersed in it. I live in a very pure way so it would suit me but there was an aspect of my life which was considered sinful, no other ways worked to deal with it so that originally brought me towards religion. As its all new to me thats probably why my questions might seem very basic. Thats good to know though

Many Christians don't really know or don't really care about the Husband-Wife part of the religion.

I've looked deeper into the matter as a Christian. What I've seen is different from popularly accepted interpretation.

Indeed many verses from the Bible does say or imply wives to submit to their husbands. These were said by the Apostles on few occassions.

However, neither God nor Christ gave such command. What God said in Genesis isn't a command for wives to submit to husbands but only stating the consequences of her sin. The husband is neither required nor commanded to uphold the "new order" either.

Before Adam and Eve sinned, they enjoyed equal liberties in the Garden of Eden. This is how it was and will be in God's Kingdom.

Jesus Himself upheld this equality even among the female disciples because Jesus belonged to God's Kingdom.

The Apostles however, is mostly speaking in a cultural context. Throughout, the land, even among non-Jews and foreign nations, wives submitted to husbands. Patriarchy is the rule of the day.

It would be taboo to break customs and may only cause big problems.

Today, it's no longer the rule and we can finally live more in accorandance to God's Kingdom, that is equal liberties for men and women (including within marriage).

 

[Sketcher]

I really don't see it as either/or. I'd like to be with an intelligent and competent woman that I can trust and has valuable contributions, who also submits to me.

 

[Go Braves]

Equal partnership. We'll both have our strengths & weaknesses, balance each other out.

 

[Noxot]

Actually, if a woman makes it her decision to submit to her husband, when he makes a bad decision or misinterprets God's Word, he is now responsible for his own sin and leading her into sin. That is some heavy responsibility. I find it funny that men like to lord this verse over women.

I don't like the kind of attitude that seems to imply that it was only hitler that is to blame for all the evils he was part of because it trys to make the masses that followed him and the army that made his will possible into innocent doves, which is far away from the truth of the reality that God hates sin thus gave no one permission to sin.

therefore there is no scapegoat or cop out but rather each will reap what they sow. if someone wants to sow blind authority and submission to their husband then at what point are they turning their husband into an idol? what a shame it is that a woman would obey man more than God. but God knows the inner person of the heart so it is for him to judge each.

 

[blackribbon]

I don't like the kind of attitude that seems to imply that it was only hitler that is to blame for all the evils he was part of because it trys to make the masses that followed him and the army that made his will possible into innocent doves, which is far away from the truth of the reality that God hates sin thus gave no one permission to sin.

therefore there is no scapegoat or cop out but rather each will reap what they sow. if someone wants to sow blind authority and submission to their husband then at what point are they turning their husband into an idol? what a shame it is that a woman would obey man more than God. but God knows the inner person of the heart so it is for him to judge each.

If God calls me to submit to my husband, do I have the option to pick and choose what decisions I submit too? Can I say that I don't believe that he is making a godly decision and ignore his leadership. Either I submit or I make my own decisions. It I opt to obey God and fully submit, I do not believe that God will fail to see why I do what I do. I honor God by submitting. I dishonor God by not submitting or leaving my husband...and suicide isn't an option.

 

[timewerx]

The word 'submit' is very scary, especially in today's culture, but there's equal submission going on.

It's even scarier 2000 years ago when Apostle Paul gave those commands when women had a lot less rights.

In fact, one of the characters in the Bible that made it law for women to submit to their husbands is an evil Persian king - the one who became Esther's husband.

 

[Noxot]

It's even scarier 2000 years ago when Apostle Paul gave those commands when women had a lot less rights.

In fact, one of the characters in the Bible that made it law for women to submit to their husbands is an evil Persian king - the one who became Esther's husband.

I think we modern folks don't see just how much safer it is for women in places like USA. submission or agreeableness is useful for survival in situations where if you rebel too much you might get killed. there is a reason why males fill up the prisons rather than women.

how are muslim women like in barbaric countries? they are probably not like american women. the ones that are escape, like that one feminist did from iran recently.

 

[timewerx]

Another thing to consider:

Man and woman's first sin brought upon this punishment:

- Hard toil (work) for the man.
- Greater difficulty of childbearing for women and women must submit to their husbands.

And then Jesus came to break the bondage of our original sin"

- His yoke is easy, and burden light.
- Everyone who does the Will of God are equals. No one is under another.

Apostolic teachings are often in a cultural context - to blend with the culture of the day, to avoid attracting attention and unecessary persecution.

Otherwise, if possible, Christ's teachings should always be treated with higher priority.

 

[timewerx]

how are muslim women like in barbaric countries? they are probably not like american women. the ones that are escape, like that one feminist did from iran recently.

They seem happy to see me. In America, I got snubbed a lot.

One reason why Jesus came is to break the bondage of Adam and Eve's original sin.

- Bondage 1 = death ; Jesus promised eternal life
- Bondage 2 = cursed ground ; You will lay hands on the sick and they will be healed, water turns wine
- Bondage 3 = hard toil ; His toil is easy
- Bondage 4 = inequality ; Everyone who does the Will of God are equally brothers and sisters

The bondage of Eve's sin which is to submit to husband is no longer in effect when we live in Christ.


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