Submission.

[Gunny]

"See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than Christ. For in Christ all the fullness of the deity lives in bodily form, and you have been given the fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority".

Colossians 2:8-10
NIV

 

[barryatlake]

Gunny, maybe you forgot that Jesus passed on all of His power and Authority to His Apostles. [ of which His Apostolic Church is formed on ] Gunny, read the following verse where Christ's Authority and Power was passed on to His Apostles. [ Luke 10; 16 ]

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Gunny, maybe you forgot that Jesus passed on all of His power and Authority to His Apostles.

1 But not to any denomination (and that includes the RCC and LDS).

2. I think you may have a very different view of "authority." I suspect what you MEAN is dictatorship - a concept very much the antithesis of Christian.


See post # 3.



Thank you.


Pax


- Josiah

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Matt. 16:18 - Jesus builds His church on Peter only.

Not only do I think that claim absurd, but it means the church died around 67 AD when Peter did. And note - he never gave anyone anything - he never regifted the "keys" so they are still in his cold, dead hands, making Christianity dead.

And of course, the RC Denomination doesn't even CLAIM to submit to St. Peter. It doesn't submit to anything - it itself demands that all submit to IT. So, silly it claiming that it's wrong to not submit when the whole point of the RCC is that it does not. See CCC 87, etc.

See post #3.





Thank you.


Pax


- Josiah

 

[Root of Jesse]

Not only do I think that claim absurd, but it means the church died around 67 AD when Peter did. And note - he never gave anyone anything - he never regifted the "keys" so they are still in his cold, dead hands, making Christianity dead.

And of course, the RC Denomination doesn't even CLAIM to submit to St. Peter. It doesn't submit to anything - it itself demands that all submit to IT. So, silly it claiming that it's wrong to not submit when the whole point of the RCC is that it does not. See CCC 87, etc.

See post #3.





Thank you.


Pax


- Josiah

That's exactly what it doesn't mean, because Jesus also promised that the Holy Spirit would lead the leaders of the Church. That's what Apostolic Succession, as witnessed in Acts with the replacement of Judas with Mattias, shows.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

That's exactly what it doesn't mean, because Jesus also promised that the Holy Spirit would lead the leaders of the Church.

But not with your denomination. And he said NOTHING about ANY denomination being exempt from accountability, responsibility, truth. Dictatorship is not authority, it is quite the antithesis of it.

And of course, the RC Denomination doesn't even CLAIM to submit to St. Peter. It doesn't submit to anything - it itself demands that all submit to IT. So, silly it claiming that it's wrong to not submit when the whole point of the RCC is that it does not. See CCC 87, etc.


.

That's what Apostolic Succession, as witnessed in Acts with the replacement of Judas with Mattias, shows.

1. The RC Denomination shouts endlessly about the importance of submission - it just doesn't submit to anything, it does the antithesis: insisting all submit to IT itself as unto God Himself.

2. Whatever the "keys" signified.... and whatever sense "they" were "given" to Peter - there is NOTHING remotely in the verse about any individual denomination (yours or any other) and NOTHING about any denomination stealing them and then re-gifting them in perpetuity.


See post #3. I think the "issue" at heart is your very different, very Roman concept of "authority' which I think is antithetical to Christianity (just VERY secular Roman).



Thank you.


Pax


- Josiah

 

[Root of Jesse]

But not with your denomination. And he said NOTHING about ANY denomination being exempt from accountability, responsibility, truth. Dictatorship is not authority, it is quite the antithesis of it.

What denomination? I don't belong to a denomination. Denominations are anti-Biblical. The Church is universal. Who do you accuse of being exempt of accountability, responsibility and truth? The Church is NOT a dictatorship. The Church proposes, never imposes. Not like your group.

1. The RC Denomination shouts endlessly about the importance of submission - it just doesn't submit to anything, it does the antithesis: insisting all submit to IT itself as unto God Himself.

Not really submission. Obedience. And no, the Catholic Church does not submit to anything. We submit to someOne. Him alone.

2. Whatever the "keys" signified.... and whatever sense "they" were "given" to Peter - there is NOTHING remotely in the verse about any individual denomination (yours or any other) and NOTHING about any denomination stealing them and then re-gifting them in perpetuity.

See Isaiah 22, if you want to know what 'keys' signifies.

See post #3. I think the "issue" at heart is your very different, very Roman concept of "authority' which I think is antithetical to Christianity (just VERY secular Roman).



Thank you.


Pax


- Josiah

different from whom? your minority sect?

 

[Root of Jesse]

"See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than Christ. For in Christ all the fullness of the deity lives in bodily form, and you have been given the fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority".

Colossians 2:8-10
NIV

We don't go by human tradition, but those given us by God. I suppose you're going to say that when they drew lots in Acts to choose Mattias to replace Judas, it was luck of the draw, and not the Holy Spirit that picked him?

 

[Rick Otto]

. The Church proposes, never imposes. Not like your group.

smh

 

[Rick Otto]

Baloney. Just because someone is human doesn't mean he's not a good leader. Heck, all the apostles did the same things Peter did. But they DO speak as a body, with Peter as the head.

Hogwash. Jesus is already the leader.
Not all the apostles were fishermen, nor were they all impulsive.
Your generalizations are to loose.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Upon this rock I WILL build my Church...indicates future. Peter wasn't ready until the Holy Spirit touched him.

 

[Rick Otto]

"Upon THIS..." NOT "Upon HIM"

The pronouns don't lie.

 

[Root of Jesse]

"Upon THIS..." NOT "Upon HIM"

The pronouns don't lie.

What does the name Peter mean?

 

[SpyderByte]

What does the name Peter mean?

"Small stone". Jesus uses the word that means "rock bed" when He said "on this rock"...

 

[Rick Otto]

What does the name Peter mean?

It is the name of a person either being referred to as "him" , or it is the name of a person NOT being referred to with an IMPERSONAL pronoun (this).

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Upon this rock I WILL build my Church...indicates future. Peter wasn't ready until the Holy Spirit touched him.

At which time he became a living stone that are a unique priesthood, a godly kingdom, forming the new Jerusalem, that Peter was one stone in twelve that built the foundation.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Poor old saint Peter with all these critics telling him how he isn't who the Lord Jesus Christ said he was; namely, the Rock upon which Christ builds his church.

 

[SpyderByte]

Poor old saint Peter with all these critics telling him how he isn't who the Lord Jesus Christ said he was; namely, the Rock upon which Christ builds his church.

No, all these people agreeing with him when he calls himself an elder, not the rock, not the pope, not the head of the church, a fellow elder.

 

[MoreCoffee]

No, all these people agreeing with him when he calls himself an elder, not the rock, not the pope, not the head of the church, a fellow elder.

Saint Peter is both an elder and an apostle of Christ as well as the Rock upon which the church is built and a saint of God. These titles are not exclusive. One can be all these things if one happens to be saint Peter.

 

[Rick Otto]

Saint Peter is both an elder and an apostle of Christ as well as the Rock upon which the church is built and a sint of God. These titles are not exclusive. One can be all these things if one happens to be saint Peter.

Unless one is a person, that is. Because even poor ol' St. Peter is a "him", not a "this".