Student of Prophecy

[Douggg]

No, that just WRONG THINK brother. He Conquers MANY, not just Jerusalem. You have Jerusalem and a Messianic Jewish leader all on the brain all the time, and the bible doesn't say that, BUT you think it does.

You are the one who wrote what makes the person the beast is that he conquers Jerusalem. I have never said that.

Also, I never said the person was the beast by being the King of Israel, the thought to be messiah by the Jews.

You need to look at my chart closer, on how the person becomes the beast, King of the Roman Empire, no longer the King of Israel, the Antichrist. As noted on my chart - "Time as the Antichrist ends here, ...."

Was Babylon just a Beast over Jerusalem/Israel ? Go Google the Babylonian Empire. Was Persia just a Beast of Jerusalem/Israel ? No. Was Greece and Rime just a Beast over Jerusalem and Israel ? No, they were all Beasts over the whole Mediterranean Sea Region !!

The whole world will worship the beast - because what makes him the beast is when he conquers Jerusalem (as you wrote)? really? That's not the reason, RT.

They will worship him because he comes back to life, seemingly overcoming death.

Revelation 13:
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

 

[Douggg]

RT, the rider on the white horse in Revelation 6, given a crown, is not him being
the beast, but crowned the illegitimate King of Israel, the Antichrist.

 

[keras]

Basically no one n Christendom agrees with your Seal theory brother.

This is a statement made from ignorance and arrogance.
I and many others believe that the first five Seals were opened by Jesus at His Ascension and mankind has experienced all the wars, famine and plagues possible, without being totally exterminated.
Proved by the Fifth Seal representing all the martyrs since Stephen.

You like to say that from your studies and God's revealing the truths to you, that you are right and anyone who contradicts you is wrong.
Get this: I too; believe I have received inspiration from the Lord and I disagree with your beliefs. So who is right?
It has to be the one who conforms accurately to what the Bible says.
1/ You believe in a 'rapture to heaven' of the Church. Something not found in the Bible

2/ You believe that none of the seals are open yet. Revelation 5 and 6:1 says they are. However the Sixth Seal is not yet and Jesus makes it clear it would not happen until later, when He stopped the Isaiah 61 quote before: and a day of the vengeance of our God.

3/ You believe in a Jewish Redemption. Over 20 prophesies refute this. Romans 9:27

 

[Revealing Times]

You are the one who wrote what makes the person the beast is that he conquers Jerusalem. I have never said that.

Well, YEA, but that doesn't mean he just Conquers Jerusalem, however, all Beasts are Beasts because they Beast over Israel, but they must be powers over the Region, not just over Israel, thus they are a BEAST !! There was no Beast for nigh 2000 years because there was no Israel, the bible is about Israel in general, but you have no Beast unless they are a Dominant power over the whole region.

Also, I never said the person was the beast by being the King of Israel, the thought to be messiah by the Jews.

You need to look at my chart closer, on how the person becomes the beast, King of the Roman Empire, no longer the King of Israel, the Antichrist. As noted on my chart - "Time as the Antichrist ends here, ...."

I have looked at your chart, nothing via Roman Emperors is correct brother. Israel never accepts the Anti-Christ as their King. He just makes an AGREEMENT with thm like he makes an agreement with the MANY nations in the Region.

The whole world will worship the beast - because what makes him the beast is when he conquers Jerusalem (as you wrote)? really? That's not the reason, RT.

And again, everything is in juxtaposition to Israel. That doesn't mean he can be a Beast by ONLY Conquering Israel !! You have tunnel vision here, you mind points you Israel, the bible points us to a WORLD POWER who Beast's over Israel who he bible is ABOUT !! If a man Conquered the whole world and Israel had not yet been regathered guess what, he would not have been a BEAST in God's eyes because it's all about Israel !! That is why the Brits were not a Beast, nor was the Ottoman Empire. It's all about Israel, but just Conquering Israel does not make you a Beast. If Babylon or Greece had only Conquered Israel they would not have been a BEAST POWER !!

They will worship him because he comes back to life, seemingly overcoming death.

The FIGURATIVE BEAST had a Head Wound, which was Rome.

Revelation 13:
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

ONE OF WHOSE HEADS ? A Figurative 7 Headed Beast !! ONE OF HIS HEADS !! You don't really believe there is an actual 7 Headed Beast do you ?

RT, the rider on the white horse in Revelation 6, given a crown, is not him being
the beast, but crowned the illegitimate King of Israel, the Antichrist.

No, it shows that the Anti-Christ is RELEASED and goes forth Conquering on a White Horse which is associated with Conquering throughout history. The Crown he is given shows he is winning a prize, which means hes not a real Royal like Jesus. He's never the King of Israel.

 

[Revealing Times]

This is a statement made from ignorance and arrogance.
I and many others believe that the first five Seals were opened by Jesus at His Ascension and mankind has experienced all the wars, famine and plagues possible, without being totally exterminated.
Proved by the Fifth Seal representing all the martyrs since Stephen.

When I say no one, it means only a small fraction of Christendom believes this novel idea and NO ONE ELSE. I would expect you to be in that camp.

The 5th Seal is about MARTYRS of the Tribulation/70th week, it has zero to do with Stephon. And no, it's not MANY, it's only a fraction of Christendom who believes this. None of the Seals have been opened, that is just a fact.

You like to say that from your studies and God's revealing the truths to you, that you are right and anyone who contradicts you is wrong.
Get this: I too; believe I have received inspiration from the Lord and I disagree with your beliefs. So who is right?
It has to be the one who conforms accurately to what the Bible says.
1/ You believe in a 'rapture to heaven' of the Church. Something not found in the Bibl

The Rapture is something you can't find because you don't want to admit it's there, what you can and can't find is not going to change the facts however. Well, I see you as wrong on every issue, so there is no use changing now, when we agree I am usually aghast.

2/ You believe that none of the seals are open yet. Revelation 5 and 6:1 says they are. However the Sixth Seal is not yet and Jesus makes it clear it would not happen until later, when He stopped the Isaiah 61 quote before: and a day of the vengeance of our God.

Rev. 5 says no such thing, that is a future event where the Raptured Church is IN HEAVEN.

3/ You believe in a Jewish Redemption. Over 20 prophesies refute this. Romans 9:27

Sure.......SMH.

 

[keras]

I will just show how wrong you are by proving whose souls are kept under the Altar in heaven.

The 5th Seal is about MARTYRS of the Tribulation/70th week, it has zero to do with Stephon. And no, it's not MANY, it's only a fraction of Christendom who believes this.

Revelation 6:9-10 The Lamb broke the Fifth Seal and I saw beneath the Altar, the souls of those who had been slaughtered for God's Word and the testimony they bore. They were given a white robe and told to wait until their number was completed.
This verse does NOT say; only the martyrs of the Tribulation. In fact they were a large multitude by then, so your theory is simply error.

 

[Revealing Times]

I will just show how wrong you are by proving whose souls are kept under the Altar in heaven.

Revelation 6:9-10 The Lamb broke the Fifth Seal and I saw beneath the Altar, the souls of those who had been slaughtered for God's Word and the testimony they bore. They were given a white robe and told to wait until their number was completed.
This verse does NOT say; only the martyrs of the Tribulation. In fact they were a large multitude by then, so your theory is simply error.

What part of SLAUGHTERED for God's word do you not get as being a Martyr ?

(KJV)Rev. 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

These seen in Rev. 6 are not the Multitude seen in Rev. 5:9 who are in the Throne room or the Multitude in Rev. 7:9-17, they are in Heaven both BEFORE the Seals are opened and AFTER the Seals are opened. These are those under the Altar, thus still not resurrected, they are the Rev. 20:4 Saints who REFUSED the Mark of the Beast and thus lived and reigned with Christ for 1000 years on earth.

So nowhere are the Rev. 6 Saints under the Altar called the "Multitude" are they ? They are called the SLAUGHTERED SAINTS in your post via your version and the SLAIN in the KJV, thus they are by definition, MARTYRS aren't they ?

So your "PROOF" turned into a poof, now it's gone situation. Of course not understanding when the Rapture is will always have you in error on other things, it's like a chain reaction.

 

[keras]

What part of SLAUGHTERED for God's word do you not get as being a Martyr ?

Your post is a typical attempt by a rabid rapturist to denounce and denigrate anyone who challenges their fairy tales.

Stephen, Acts 7:34-39, all the early Christians fed to the lions, all the Christians burnt alive, up to the girl shot at Columbine; ALL slaughtered for their faith - THEIR souls are precious to God and He keeps them under His Altar in heaven. Their number will be complete when Jesus Returns.

Of course not understanding when the Rapture is will always have you in error on other things, it's like a chain reaction.

So you know when the 'rapture' is?
Seems to me that the timing of this supposed removal to heaven of people before any trials or judgment, is very controversial and quite unresolved.

Until I see proper Biblical proof of a 'rapture to heaven', let alone when it could happen; I will continue to denounce and refute that fable for the Satanic lie that it is.

The truths of what God really does want from His people, are very evident throughout the Bible. He requires us to have faith; the faith that Abraham displayed and to love and trust Him wholeheartedly. 1 Peter 1:5, John 14:1
THEN, He will bless us mightily and give us peace and prosperity in His holy Land. Psalms 69:35-36, Romans 8:16-18, Ephesians 1:10-14, & 3:6

 

[Revealing Times]

Your post is a typical attempt by a rabid rapturist to denounce and denigrate anyone who challenges their fairy tales.

My post proved you wrong via the scriptures. The Martyrs are not the Multitude and are never called that. You really are confused about all things eschatology it seems.

Stephen, Acts 7:34-39, all the early Christians fed to the lions, all the Christians burnt alive, up to the girl shot at Columbine; ALL slaughtered for their faith - THEIR souls are precious to God and He keeps them under His Altar in heaven. Their number will be complete when Jesus Returns.

Again, 99.5 percent of the Christians in the Multitude will not be Martyrs, those in Seal number 5 are designated as Martyrs. Ignoring the facts will only get you into a confused/conflated state of mind. I love how you just ignore the facts you want to try and make something fit your theories.

So you know when the 'rapture' is?

Yes, before the 70th Week.................

Seems to me that the timing of this supposed removal to heaven of people before any trials or judgment, is very controversial and quite unresolved.

No, it's only a small minority of the Church that don't understand the timing of the Rapture, and that makes me suspect of them in general as per their understandings.

Until I see proper Biblical proof of a 'rapture to heaven', let alone when it could happen; I will continue to denounce and refute that fable for the Satanic lie that it is.

Someone could show you till they are blue in the face and you wouldn't see it. Jesus tried in vain to tell the Pharisees he was come in the name of God the Father, but they mocked him because they knew better.

 

[keras]

My post proved you wrong via the scriptures. The Martyrs are not the Multitude and are never called that. You really are confused about all things eschatology it seems.

Are you thinking that I mean the vast multitude of Revelation 7:9-14?
The usual twisting of what I say, so as to make further confusion!
The people that John sees are all the faithful Christians who have passed through the great ordeal of the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster.

 

[keras]

So you know when the 'rapture' is?

Yes, before the 70th Week.................

Scriptural proof, please.
The usual assumptions, inferences, conjectures, suppositions and flat out guesswork just doesn't cut it.

 

[Revealing Times]

Are you thinking that I mean the vast multitude of Revelation 7:9-14?
The usual twisting of what I say, so as to make further confusion!
The people that John sees are all the faithful Christians who have passed through the great ordeal of the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster.

I doesn't matter to me what you are thinking, I know that those under the Altar are never called THE MULTITUDE, thus wherever you got that idea from is wrong, and thus I named a few places where there is a Multitude named, showing what is THE MULTITUDE juxtaposed to what is not a Multitude. Those under the Altar will not be a huge portion, they are the Remnant of Rev. 12:17, the Church has already been Raptured !! Like I said before, not understanding the Rapture thus turns a small portion of people who repent and then die after the Rapture into a larger group in YOUR MIND sir. But it is not that large, the Church is already in Heaven, only those who repent after the Rapture and then lay their lives down for Christ will be the ones UNDER the Altar at the 5th Seal.

The people in the 5th Seal never SEE John, Jesus sees those under the Altar, the people John see in Heaven are the RAPTURED CHURCH, who were Raptured before the 70th Week, thus they have never been through a 6th Seal Event as you seem to think, because they were never in the 70th week tribulation period. Not understanding the Raptures timing does this to ones eschatology.

Scriptural proof, please.
The usual assumptions, inferences, conjectures, suppositions and flat out guesswork just doesn't cut it.

You are the one that it hurts, not me......I don't chew my cabbage twice.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What did Christ mean, the kingdom of God is at hand in Mark 1:15?

Just as He told people then,
so also now, today -

Turn to Yahweh (away from everything else), for His Kingdom is now, at hand, here before you,
time for you to stop living selfishly, carnally, of the world/flesh/devil,
and turn to
Yahweh to serve Him, His Kingdom, TODAY, IF you hear His Voice.

Few entered His Kingdom.
Men did what they thought right, "there is a way that seems right to a man",
and if they did not turn to Yahweh, to live in His Kingdom, under Yahweh's Rule now and forever ,
they went headlong on the wide road to destruction.

 

[Dr. D Bunker]

RT, the rider on the white horse in Revelation 6, given a crown, is not him being
the beast, but crowned the illegitimate King of Israel, the Antichrist.View attachment 247993

 

[Revealing Times]

I know most people believe the first seal is the anti-Christ, I don't. My question is where do the scriptures claim Israel would accept the antichrist. I have seen prophecies where Israel gets invaded, but none that Israel would accept this evil man.

Nowhere, they try to say John 5:43, which was about the Pharisees. The False Prophet will put him forth as a GREAT MAN, but not the Jewish Messiah. THINK, Antiochus and Jason (real name Yeshua) who tried to Hellenize the Jews but met resistance from the Maccabeans. Jason bribed Antiochus to be appointed the High Priest, thus he had his brother Onias III killed, he was a Pious High Priest.

So Israel are not going to accept anyone as their King, especially a Gentile Leader.

 

[Douggg]

I know most people believe the first seal is the anti-Christ, I don't. My question is where do the scriptures claim Israel would accept the antichrist. I have seen prophecies where Israel gets invaded, but none that Israel would accept this evil man.

It is built into the concept of the Antichrist term itself. Which first a person must understand that "the" basis concept of Christ is the promised great King of Israel. Jesus is that promised great King of Israel, but was rejected by his own people.

Here are some verses...

John 12:
12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,

13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

When Jesus was crucified he was mocked as being the King of the Jews, and a sign Pilate had placed on his cross.

Mark 15:32

31 Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save.

32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

So the concept to be the Christ, the person must be the King of Israel, who comes in the name of Lord.

The Antichrist will be someone the the Jews embrace as their messiah, thinking he is the guy, and anointed the King of Israel. "Instead of" and "against" - i.e. "Anti" the rightful King of Israel, Jesus,
who came in the name of the Lord.
____________________________________________________________________________

To become the King of Israel, the person has to be anointed. Saul and David was anointed by Samuel the prophet. Solomon by Nathen the prophet. The Antichrist will be anointed by the false prophet.

So in Revelation 6, the person who receives the crown, i.e. anointed the King of Israel, illegitimate of course, and rides the white horse in similitude to the rightful King of Israel who right the white horse - Jesus in Revelation 19 - that person is the Antichrist.

 

[Dr. D Bunker]

bye

 

[Revealing Times]

It is built into the concept of the Antichrist term itself. Which first a person must understand that "the" basis concept of Christ is the promised great King of Israel. Jesus is that promised great King of Israel, but was rejected by his own people.

No it is not, else why would John have said there are MANY anti-christs ?

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

So there was MANY people in Jesus' stead ? Your whole concept is off kilter brother. Only ONE PLACE in the whole bible is the Man of Sin/Little Horn/Beast even called THE ANTI-CHRIST that will come and that is in the verse above, it's not even a Name per se, it's a description of what the coming Little Horn will be....antichrist....NOTICE, a small letter to start the name, it's a DESCRIPTOR of the Man of Sin, he will be antichrist, not in the stead of but against Christ.

This whole twisting of Scriptures to make the Man of Sin/Little Horn/Beast a man coming to take the place of Christ is just not based in reality brother. It's conjecture, and bad conjecture at that.

So you start with a BAD UNDERSTANDING, then place scriptures beside it to try and tie the understanding together, but that is not reality at all. If I told you about a bull, then showed Sacrifices of our Lord right beside it, that doesn't mean the bull getting run through at the end represents a Sacrifice for us !!

 

[Douggg]

I believe that's a presumption not found in even one passage. There's no indication Israel will accept this man of sin. I think it's presumed because it's presumed there's going to be a one world government and religion.

I'm asking for any verse that clearly indicates Israel would accept the man of sin.

To be the Antichrist - the person must be anointed the King of Israel. The term Antichrist has no relevancy outside of that.

Differently, to become the revealed man of sin - the person has to commit the act in 2Thessalonians2:4.

So if you are asking for a verse that Israel would accept the man of sin - it is a flawed question in and of itself. Israel's not going to embrace anyone who goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God - as their King of Israel, messiah.

No-one can become the Antichrist, unless the Jews perceive him to be the messiah, mashiach, which to them the mashiach is like saying the promised great King of Israel forthcoming who is descended from King David. Judaism 101: Mashiach: The Messiah

Back in the day of John, when people were aware of what the term Christ meant, and therefore Antichrist. They weren't conditioned by two thousand years of commentators and preachers to think of the Antichrist, as most people do today - which is the person who is the ultimate world dictator in Revelation.

Back then, in 1John2:18, when John wrote - 18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

They knew Jesus being crucified the connection with being the King of Israel. They knew of him entering Jerusalem, it was a public spectacle of the crowd welcoming him as the King of Israel, who comes in the name of the Lord. They knew of Jesus to be "the" Christ, with that basic understanding.

So to them, it was common knowledge that the Antichrist would be someone the Jews would embrace at their perceived messiah, to be anointed the King of Israel, instead of and against Jesus the rightful King of Israel.

The another coming in his own name, had that implication in John 5:43.

43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

The reason it does not say Antichrist instead of man of sin, the beast, the prince who shall come, the little horn, the beast - is because the person is not in the role of being the Antichrist when he is in those other roles.

There will be the person who will come, which has built into the term the Antichrist that it means the illegitimate anointed King of Israel - which is the another that Jesus referred to in John 5:43, but does not come in the name of the Lord - but his own name. i.e. someone God did not send to be their King of Israel, messiah.

In keeping with your screen-name, you need to debunk internally what you have been conditioned to think of the Antichrist as. That process I can not do for you.

Start by learning what the Jews are expecting of their mashaich, like at the Judaism 101 site. Then the other verses I cite in connection with the person like Deuteronomy 31:9-13, in regards to confirming the covenant for 7 years will make more sense, as he becomes the Antichrist.

 

[Douggg]

No it is not, else why would John have said there are MANY anti-christs ?

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

John was likening them turning away from Christianity to the coming Antichrist - by calling them "antichrists". Which "Anti" one of the definitions is "against". So by leaving Christianity, and denying that Jesus was the messiah, they had become "antichrist's".

The spirit of antichrist was already at work back in John's and Paul's day.