Student of Prophecy

[iamlamad]

That understanding to me is nonsensical and fits nothing. Rev. 4 and 5 is the Church in heaven after the Rapture. Jesus told us this book John was shown would be the things which he has seen (Jesus Glorified) in Rev. 1. The 7 Churches are then the things which ARE (Church Age) in Rev. 2 and 3. Then in Rev. 4-22 the things which will be hereafter.

The First Seal is the Anti-Christ man, that pretty basic. This is why there is like 10 people in the world that have this belief. The whole eschatology is based on Jesus not being found in Haven, but hes also not found on earth or under the earth either, telling us it's metaphoric in nature, Jesus was in heaven as the Lamb the whole time, John just didn't understand that. No MAN was found to open the Seals but the Lamb was found.

The First Seal is the Anti-Christ brother.

You are just going by imagination and man's ideas, not what the scripture is saying.

If you wish to see the church in heaven, look for WORDS that tell us:

"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb"

Just imagine: we are talking perhaps 50 generations of believers, and the last few will number into the hundred millions. The dead in Christ will be a HUGE number, plus those who are alive and in Christ. Notice what is written: "a great multitude which no man could number.." That, my friend, is the church in heaven.

On the other hand, we don't find such words or language in chapter 4. What we see is a throne room where Jesus is NOT.

We find a search for one worthy that ended in failure.
We find the Holy Spirit there in the throne room - when human reasoning would say He should be on the earth in 95 AD.

You just ignore all this because of preconceived ideas that just does not fit what God is telling you.

WHEN in all of time and outside of time, was Jesus NOT in the throne room at the right hand of the Father? The answer is simple: ONLY during the 32 years He was on earth.

WHEN was a search made for one worthy that ended in failure? Answer? EVERY search ended in failure right up to the time Jesus rose from the dead. The moment He rose, He was found worthy to open the seals.

WHEN was the Holy Spirit IN the throne room? For all of time right up to the moment Jesus ascended and sent Him down.

Chapters 4 & 5 then, specify a TIME - a time you choose to ignore - the very moment in time that Jesus ascended into the throne room, took the book from the Father's right hand, and began opening the seals.

This is the CONTEXT of the first seals: 32 AD. As long as you ignore the context, you will end up wrong. You are in sad shape, doctrinally speaking, when the truth is nonsensical to you!

Rev. 4 and 5 is the Church in heaven after the Rapture WRONG!

The 7 Churches are then the things which ARE (Church Age) in Rev. 2 and 3. Then in Rev. 4-22 the things which will be hereafter.
True, John was to write history, present in his day, and future events. In fact, He wrote all three, just as He was directed. The problem is, you don't know where in Revelation John switched from present in his time to future in his time. Were there any martyrs from 32 to 95 AD? YOU KNOW there were. They are who John saw under the altar. Stephen was one of them. So John is still PRESENT TENSE at seal 5. You imagine future - God tells us it is around 95 AD timing.

The First Seal is the Anti-Christ man, that pretty basic Sorry, but TOTALLY WRONG. There are commentators that show us the first seal as the gospel - which it is. It is 32 AD! You imagine an antichrist in 32 AD? No, of course not, because you ignore the context!

Next, you ignore that fact that God used the color white for this horse: 16 other time John used the color white to represent righteousness. You imagine (for some strange and unknown reason) that God would use white once to represent evil. NEVER! You are mistaken. Seal one was opened in 32 AD to represent the church taking the gospel to the world.

Jesus not being found in Haven, but hes also not found on earth or under the earth either, telling us it's metaphoric in nature WRONG! No metaphors here: just basic simple language showing us Jesus was ON EARTH. There are no words saying He was not found on earth. Please, read it again without preconceived glasses. It is not Jesus the angels were looking for: they were looking for one WORTHY to open the seals. It had to be the redeemer. When that first search John saw end in failure, it is only telling us Jesus had NOT YET risen from the dead.

Had He risen from the dead while in the garden? NO! Had He risen from the dead while on the cross - even after He died? NO! He had to be in hell for 3 days and 3 nights. Then He rose and THEN He was found worthy, as seen in Rev. 5. From John's point of view in the vision, as soon as He was found worthy, He ascended into the throne where John got to see His arrival. There are no metaphors here! Perhaps that is your problem: looking for metaphors where God meant none.

Jesus was in heaven as the Lamb the whole time WRONG! Jesus LEFT His Father and LEFT heaven to be born of a virgin. However, God is a three part being, Spirit, Soul and Body - just as humans are. He created us in HIS image. So while the body part of God came to earth, HE - the Spirit and Soul part of God, remained in heaven. GOD was in heaven, but his body came to earth to take on human flesh.

No MAN was found to open the Seals but the Lamb was found. WRONG! Jesus WAS a man - God in human flesh. When John said, "no man" was found, that tells us it HAD TO BE A MAN to be worthy. God could not do it, nor could any angel. It had to be a man - but a man who died and rose from the dead!

I just wonder how anyone could miss every last point, yet write on this forum as a teacher.

 

[Biblewriter]

Hi, I'm new. I'm concerned about the times, but not sure where to post this.
2015 was marked by seven “when-then” signs that signal the “kingdom of God”--the other phrase in Christ’s announcement…

“The sun shall be darkened and the moon turned to blood before the day of the Lord.”
The rare solar eclipse on the equinox and a blood moon two weeks later on Passover fulfilled Joel 2:31 above where the word for ‘before’ is paniym. It means face or facing.

Those events are facing the end-time ‘day of the Lord,’ along with the other signs.

What did Christ mean, the kingdom of God is at hand in Mark 1:15?

When Christ proclaimed this 2000 years ago He had an internal kingdom in mind, saying ‘Blessed are the meek, the merciful--the kingdom is within us if we have God’s Spirit from a surrender of our lives to Him, Lk 17:21

The disciples understood that, but that’s not what they were looking for when they asked if Christ would restore the kingdom, Acts 1.

Christ replied, “It is not for you to know the times and seasons…” That phrase is found only once before, in Daniel 2:21 where God sets up kings.

That chapter also proves the Bible correct for 2500. Since the four kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Grecia and Rome, no kingdom has ruled the world. The Roman Empire, was represented by the legs of iron.

Christ’s “times and seasons” when the kingdom will be restored is ALSO found in 1Thessalonians 5:1-3…

Paul said “you know the times and seasons, for the day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night, for when they shall say ‘Peace and safety,’ sudden destruction comes on them.”

The Iran Nuclear Treaty in 2015 was ‘Peace and safety,’ and it was updated by the UN theme for 2017 that included those words.

Other signs in 2015 need explaining…
“When you see the abomination…standing where it ought not…flee” Mark 13:14

Three signs in 2015 could qualify as an abomination. The Bible calls same sex union an abomination in Leviticus 18:22 and it was ‘standing where it ought not’ in the US Supreme Court. Obama’s White House gave approval with the rainbow lights above.

Early Christians understood Christ’s words to mean the Roman army that came to Jerusalem in 66 AD, so they fled and were spared the siege by Titus in 70 AD

In 2015, a JADE HELM drill meant Homeland Eradication of Local Militants that some say was a test for when martial law is set up.
The pope also represents the "mother of abominations" in Rev 17:5 and he was "standing where he ought not" (Mark 13:14) in the US Congress in 2015.
More could be said, but the point is, the Bible has many references to 3 1/2 years like Elijah's ministry, Christ's time and in Daniel 12 or Rev 11:3, 13:5. The Roman General Cestius coming to Jerusalem in the fall of 66 AD was the sign that early believers took to flee as Christ said before Titus came 3 1/2 years later. We had the signs 3 years ago, but most Christians are numb from signs and are stuck in cities when they should consider an exit plan to be in harmony with Christ's words. When martial law comes, "one shall be taken and the other left" may have a new meaning for dreamy people who think it's about a rapture. They should read the last verse of Luke 17 to see the real meaning.

Welcome to Christian Forums. But please do not enter this area without safety glasses and a hard hat. And a bulletproof vest would also be advisable. For you can rest assured that for any opinion you might proffer, there will be several people who will tell you are crazy, one or two will call you a heretic, and several more will "correct" your thinking. And maybe one or two will actually say something helpful.

 

[Revealing Times]

You are just going by imagination and man's ideas, not what the scripture is saying.

If you wish to see the church in heaven, look for WORDS that tell us:

"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb"

Just imagine: we are talking perhaps 50 generations of believers, and the last few will number into the hundred millions. The dead in Christ will be a HUGE number, plus those who are alive and in Christ. Notice what is written: "a great multitude which no man could number.." That, my friend, is the church in heaven.

On the other hand, we don't find such words or language in chapter 4. What we see is a throne room where Jesus is NOT.

We find a search for one worthy that ended in failure.
We find the Holy Spirit there in the throne room - when human reasoning would say He should be on the earth in 95 AD.

You just ignore all this because of preconceived ideas that just does not fit what God is telling you.

WHEN in all of time and outside of time, was Jesus NOT in the throne room at the right hand of the Father? The answer is simple: ONLY during the 32 years He was on earth.

WHEN was a search made for one worthy that ended in failure? Answer? EVERY search ended in failure right up to the time Jesus rose from the dead. The moment He rose, He was found worthy to open the seals.

WHEN was the Holy Spirit IN the throne room? For all of time right up to the moment Jesus ascended and sent Him down.

Chapters 4 & 5 then, specify a TIME - a time you choose to ignore - the very moment in time that Jesus ascended into the throne room, took the book from the Father's right hand, and began opening the seals.

This is the CONTEXT of the first seals: 32 AD. As long as you ignore the context, you will end up wrong. You are in sad shape, doctrinally speaking, when the truth is nonsensical to you!

Rev. 4 and 5 is the Church in heaven after the Rapture WRONG!

The 7 Churches are then the things which ARE (Church Age) in Rev. 2 and 3. Then in Rev. 4-22 the things which will be hereafter.
True, John was to write history, present in his day, and future events. In fact, He wrote all three, just as He was directed. The problem is, you don't know where in Revelation John switched from present in his time to future in his time. Were there any martyrs from 32 to 95 AD? YOU KNOW there were. They are who John saw under the altar. Stephen was one of them. So John is still PRESENT TENSE at seal 5. You imagine future - God tells us it is around 95 AD timing.

The First Seal is the Anti-Christ man, that pretty basic Sorry, but TOTALLY WRONG. There are commentators that show us the first seal as the gospel - which it is. It is 32 AD! You imagine an antichrist in 32 AD? No, of course not, because you ignore the context!

Next, you ignore that fact that God used the color white for this horse: 16 other time John used the color white to represent righteousness. You imagine (for some strange and unknown reason) that God would use white once to represent evil. NEVER! You are mistaken. Seal one was opened in 32 AD to represent the church taking the gospel to the world.

Jesus not being found in Haven, but hes also not found on earth or under the earth either, telling us it's metaphoric in nature WRONG! No metaphors here: just basic simple language showing us Jesus was ON EARTH. There are no words saying He was not found on earth. Please, read it again without preconceived glasses. It is not Jesus the angels were looking for: they were looking for one WORTHY to open the seals. It had to be the redeemer. When that first search John saw end in failure, it is only telling us Jesus had NOT YET risen from the dead.

Had He risen from the dead while in the garden? NO! Had He risen from the dead while on the cross - even after He died? NO! He had to be in hell for 3 days and 3 nights. Then He rose and THEN He was found worthy, as seen in Rev. 5. From John's point of view in the vision, as soon as He was found worthy, He ascended into the throne where John got to see His arrival. There are no metaphors here! Perhaps that is your problem: looking for metaphors where God meant none.

Jesus was in heaven as the Lamb the whole time WRONG! Jesus LEFT His Father and LEFT heaven to be born of a virgin. However, God is a three part being, Spirit, Soul and Body - just as humans are. He created us in HIS image. So while the body part of God came to earth, HE - the Spirit and Soul part of God, remained in heaven. GOD was in heaven, but his body came to earth to take on human flesh.

No MAN was found to open the Seals but the Lamb was found. WRONG! Jesus WAS a man - God in human flesh. When John said, "no man" was found, that tells us it HAD TO BE A MAN to be worthy. God could not do it, nor could any angel. It had to be a man - but a man who died and rose from the dead!

I just wonder how anyone could miss every last point, yet write on this forum as a teacher.

Dude, no one believes the Seals were opened 2000 years ago but you and a few like you.

 

[Douggg]

Dude, no one believes the Seals were opened 2000 years ago but you and a few like you.

RT, are you sure you didn't mean "the Seals were not opened 2000 years ago" ? It is the events that seals revealed that haven't take place yet.

lamad was not using the right terminology. He should have been packaging his comments as the "events" of the seals. He believes that some of those events have begun already, starting back 2000 years ago.

 

[Revealing Times]

RT, are you sure you didn't mean "the Seals were not opened 2000 years ago" ? It is the events that seals revealed that haven't take place yet.

lamad was not using the right terminology. He should have been packaging his comments as the "events" of the seals. He believes that some of those events have begun already, starting back 2000 years ago.

I know what he believes. my terminology seems correct as I relooked.

Dude...no one believes the Seals WERE OPENED 2000 years ago but a VERY FEW people !!

In other words NO ONE BELIEVES that which you are saying, that the SEALS WERE OPENED 2000 years ago. I believe that they WERE NOT OPENED 2000 years ago.

I think you got your wires crossed on this one brother. You believe with me here I am sure.

 

[Douggg]

I believe that they WERE NOT OPENED 2000 years ago.

If that were correct - that the seals were not opened 2000 years - you wouldn't even have Revelation to read.

It is the events that were concealed in the book until the seals were opened that haven't happened yet.

no one believes the Seals WERE OPENED 2000 years ago but a VERY FEW people

I don't know where you making that statement from. I would say that the majority of Christians don't believe the "events",which were revealed when the seals were opened, have not happened yet.

I think you got your wires crossed on this one brother. You believe with me here I am sure.

You probably don't even grasp the error of what you are saying.

The seals have all been opened, by Jesus, so John and everyone there could know what was in the book. It is the events revealed, when the seals were opened, like locks removed from the book, that have not taken place yet.

Here, how do you know what is in this book?

(I removed the image because I noticed a waterstamp, meaning it may be copyrigthed).

Search Google images for "locked book" instead.

 

[Revealing Times]

If that were correct - that the seals were not opened 2000 years - you wouldn't even have Revelation to read.

It is the events that were concealed in the book until the seals were opened that haven't happened yet.

That is the case.

I don't know where you making that statement from. I would say that the majority of Christians don't believe the "events",which were revealed when the seals were opened, have not happened yet.

No seals have been opened man. The First Seal is the Anti-Christ, it is opened at the 3.5 year mark of he coming 70th week !! WOW you are a part of that .0001 percent brother ?

You probably don't even grasp the error of what you are saying.

The seals have all been opened, by Jesus, so John and everyone there could know what was in the book. It is the events revealed, when the seals were opened, like locks removed from the book, that have not taken place yet.

Here, how do you know what is in this book?

(I removed the image because I noticed a waterstamp, meaning it may be copyrigthed).

Search Google images for "locked book" instead.

No Seals have been opened, PERIOD.

 

[Biblewriter]

That is the case.



No seals have been opened man. The First Seal is the Anti-Christ, it is opened at the 3.5 year mark of he coming 70th week !! WOW you are a part of that .0001 percent brother ?


No Seals have been opened, PERIOD.

The belief that the seals have been opened is far more common than you think.

But you seem to have totally missed what Douggg has been saying.

He is not saying that the events represented under the seals have taken place. He is only saying that the breaking of the seals did not represent the actual taking place of the events mentioned, but that their breaking represented the revelation that these events would take place.

I (and most futurists) agree with Douggg on this point.

But this particular point is so very minor that it is ridiculous to even argue about it.

 

[Revealing Times]

The belief that the seals have been opened is far more common than you think.

But you seem to have totally missed what Douggg has been saying.

He is not saying that the events represented under the seals have taken place. He is only saying that the breaking of the seals did not represent the actual taking place of the events mentioned, but that their breaking represented the revelation that these events would take place.

I (and most futurists) agree with Douggg on this point.

Jesus is in Heaven, after the Rapture, with the Church at hand when he breaks the Seals.

Rev. 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Rev. 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Rev. 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Verse 4:1 is the Rapture, verses 4:4 is the Elders having already Married the Lamb in Heaven. Verse 5:9 is the Multitude from all Nations having been redeemed by the blood of Jesus and in Heaven as the Bride of Christ, BEFORE the Seals are opened !!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Richard Ruhling said: ↑
Hi, I'm new. I'm concerned about the times, but not sure where to post this.
2015 was marked by seven “when-then” signs that signal the “kingdom of God”--the other phrase in Christ’s announcement…

Welcome to Christian Forums. But please do not enter this area without safety glasses and a hard hat. And a bulletproof vest would also be advisable. For you can rest assured that for any opinion you might proffer, there will be several people who will tell you are crazy, one or two will call you a heretic, and several more will "correct" your thinking. And maybe one or two will actually say something helpful.

That reminds me of this thread

Will Jesus physically return to Earth?

That would suit you ehehe
I am coming back in the form of Ironman, so I can sharpen some iron around these parts

Daniel 2:35 then broken small together have been the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, and they have been as chaff from the summer threshing-floor, and carried them away hath the wind and no place hath been found for them and the stone that smote the image hath become a great mountain, and hath filled all the land.
[Revelation 18:12]

Reve 18:12 cargo/replete of gold and of silver and of stone, precious and of pearl/*s and of cambric and of purple and of silk and of scarlet and every wood citron and every instrument of ivory and every instrument out of wood most-precious and of copper and of iron/sidhrou <4604> and of marble,
[Daniel 2:35,45]

Will Jesus physically return to Earth in the second coming?

1. No, he'll meet us in the air
   18 vote(s) 20.7%
2. Yes, he will physically reign on Earth
   57 vote(s) 65.5%
3. Don't know
   12 vote(s) 13.8%

.

 

[Douggg]

Jesus is in Heaven, after the Rapture, with the Church at hand when he breaks the Seals.

Jesus has been in heaven ever since he ascended in Acts 1.

Revelation 4:
1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

What John experienced could best be described as an out of body experience. He was not changed, bodily, when he was called up. Revelation 4:1 prefigures the Rapture, but it is not the rapture.

In Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The voice of the seventh angel is the sounding of the seventh trumpet. The trumpets were revealed when the seventh seal was opened in Chapter 8.

It does not say in Revelation 10:7 "in the days of the seventh seal opened" because the seals have all been opened, which the seventh seal revealed the trumpets.

The seals have all been opened. But none of the trumpets have sounded yet.

 

[Douggg]

The First Seal is the Anti-Christ, it is opened at the 3.5 year mark of he coming 70th week !! WOW you are a part of that .0001 percent brother ?

The rider on the white horse is the Antichrist. Not the first seal.

The first seal is the first lock on the book that Jesus removed, opened, 2000 years ago, so John and them there in heaven could see what was in the book.

1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Revelation 8:
1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

 

[Douggg]

you are a part of that .0001 percent brother

In some of my views, I am in the less than 1%. But on this issue, I am not.

 

[Revealing Times]

Jesus has been in heaven ever since he ascended in Acts 1.

Revelation 4:
1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

What John experienced could best be described as an out of body experience. He was not changed, bodily, when he was called up. Revelation 4:1 prefigures the Rapture, but it is not the rapture.

Rev. 4:1 is John being shown the future, he was IN HEAVEN, in the FUTURE !! Good grief man. Write the things which you have seen (Rev. 1, Jesus Glorified) the things which are (Seven Churches in Rev. 2 & 3) and the things which shall be HEREAFTER (Rev. 4:1 to Rev. 22).

In Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

When the 7th Trumpet blows that is the 3rd Woe, it is also the 7 Vials of God in Rev. 16. So when the 7th Trumpet blows the TIME of Satan ruling this earth will be over.

The voice of the seventh angel is the sounding of the seventh trumpet. The trumpets were revealed when the seventh seal was opened in Chapter 8.

It does not say in Revelation 10:7 "in the days of the seventh seal opened" because the seals have all been opened, which the seventh seal revealed the trumpets.

The seals have all been opened. But none of the trumpets have sounded yet.

None of the 7 Seals have been opened, the first is opened at the 3.5 year mark of the 70th week. Then over the next 3.5 years all the Seal, Trumpet and Vial judgments are rained down on mankind. It is called Plagues, THE TWO-WITNESSES PRAY THEM DOWN.....That is why the world hates them so much.

Rev. 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

The Church is SHOWN IN HEAVEN in Rev. 4 and 5 meaning it has to be after the Rapture and before the Seals are opened !!

The rider on the white horse is the Antichrist. Not the first seal.

The first seal is the first lock on the book that Jesus removed, opened, 2000 years ago, so John and them there in heaven could see what was in the book.

Rev. 4 is future tense, thus the Church is seen in Heaven as well as in Rev. 5. No Seals have been opened. When the first seal is opened the Anti-Christ goes forth.

In some of my views, I am in the less than 1%. But on this issue, I am not.

You are with the .0001 crowd, no one thinks like this.

 

[Douggg]

Rev. 4 is future tense, thus the Church is seen in Heaven as well as Rev. 5. N Seals have been opened. When the first seal is opened the Anti-Christ goes forth.

This not future tense, it is present tense by the one of the four living beasts to John.

1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

One of the seals were removed and John and everyone there in heaven could what was in that part of the book.
________________________________________________________

In the text does it say the rider the white horse the Antichrist? He is given a crown? of what? There are various interpretations people have.

When the raptured church is in heaven, the actual understanding will be shown. There will be no different intepretations. Which means what John was not the raptured church.


John, back 2000 years ago saw future events, but those were not specific enough at that time to say in the text that the rider on the white horse, is the Antichrist.

If John were the raptured church in heaven, he would have simply wrote this is the Antichrist and his name is so-n-no.

You are with the .0001 crowd, no one thinks like this.

You are making statements with no way of backing it up.

 

[Douggg]

But this particular point is so very minor that it is ridiculous to even argue about it.

James, the point is very important. Because persons like Iamlamad views Revelation is linear according the seals being opened in sequence. And not the events the seals reveal.

lamad's timline is

seal1.......seal2......seal3.........seal4........seal5.....seal6....seal7

lamad and RT start talking about Revelation in terms of the seals being opened, instead of the events in the book, revealed by the already opened seals. It leads to all kind of confusion.

 

[Revealing Times]

James, the point is very important. Because persons like Iamlamd views Revelation is linear according the seals being opened in sequence. And not the events the seals reveal.

lamad's timline is

seal1.......seal2......seal3.........seal4........seal5.....seal6....seal7

lamad and RT start talking about Revelation in terms of the seals being opened, instead of the events in the book, revealed by the already opened seals. It leads to all kind of confusion.

He's just like you, he believes 4 Seals were already opened which is nonsensical also. It makes zero sense as per the factual evidence.

The Church is shown in Rev. 4 and 5 in Heaven with Jesus BEFORE the Seals are opened !! FACT.

These things are HEREAFTER....Rev. 4:1 to 22.

Jesus opens the First Seal with the Church in Heaven having already Married the Lamb so it happens at the 3.5 year Mark of the 70th Week (Jacob's troubles). The Anti-Christ goes forth to rule for 42 Months. Seal 2 is Peace being taken from the earth by the Anti-Christ, Seal 3 is Famine caused by the wars of the Anti-Christ, Seal 4 is Deal and the Grave caused by the Anti-Christ.

Seal 5 is the results of the Anti-Christ' tyranny, the Martyrs have been killed. Seal 6 is when God acts supernaturally to show humans they ARE IN HIS WRATH and have been since the First Seal.

Seal 7 has all the Seven Trumps within it, and the Seven Vials are in the 7th Trumpet, so all the Wrath comes from the Lamb opening the Seven Seals !!

There is nothing in the book of Revelation that stumps me brother, I seek truth, not theories.

 

[Douggg]

He's just like you, he believes 4 Seals were already opened which is nonsensical also. It makes zero sense as per the factual evidence.

No, I don't believe any of the events revealed when the seals were opened have begun yet.

The Church is shown in Rev. 4 and 5 in Heaven with Jesus BEFORE the Seals are opened !! FACT.

No, you are trying to build a proof and then claiming it as "fact".

Jesus opens the First Seal with the Church in Heaven having already Married the Lamb so it happens at the 3.5 year Mark of the 70th Week (Jacob's troubles). The Anti-Christ goes forth to rule for 42 Months. Seal 2 is Peace being taken from the earth by the Anti-Christ, Seal 3 is Famine caused by the wars of the Anti-Christ, Seal 4 is Deal and the Grave caused by the Anti-Christ"

All of that is interpretation, RT.

You and I are reading the same text, right"? You have rider on the white horse being at the "3.5 year Mark of the 70th Week (Jacob's troubles).

Differently, I view the person on the white horse, given a crown, because he has become the illegitimate King of Israel, the Antichrist, at the beginning of the 70week.

lamad has an even different view. He views the rider on the white horse is Jesus.

We have different views, because the church is not heaven.

Which if the seals were opened in the future, after the church is in heaven as you are claiming - there would be no disagreements. Because if the seals were opened then, all of us would have the exact same awareness, because the events would be taking place real time, while the church is in heaven. And Revelation would be presented completely different, with the names of the false prophet, the beast, for example, known explicitly.

But since the seals were opened back in John's day, and not some time in the future, what is written Revelation there is a lot of disagreement and controversy.

 

[Revealing Times]

This not future tense, it is present tense by the one of the four living beasts to John.

1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

One of the seals were removed and John and everyone there in heaven could what was in that part of the book.

Wrong, the Church is THE BRIDE in Rev. chapters 4 and 5. That is why John is shown being Raptured in prose, because that is what the future will look like.

In the text does it say the rider the white horse the Antichrist? He is given a crown? of what? There are various interpretations people have.

Yes, the rider on the white horse is the Anti-Christ, the White Horse stands for a CONQUEROR, the Crown is not the same Crown Jesus gets in Rev. 19, it's a CHEAP CROWN won via games, whereas Jesus' Crown is a Crown given to Kings and he has MANY CROWNS. The two words are different, the one used for the Anti-Christ is like unto a WREATH.

The word used for BOW actually means means PLAIN or Simple Clothing, this denotes he is not the Royal Jesus Christ, King of Kings, but a lowly man.

Rev. 6:2 And 2532 I saw, 1492 z5627 and 2532 behold, 2400 z5628 a white 3022 horse, 2462 and 2532 hee that sate 2521 z5740 on 1909 him 846 had 2192 z5723 a bowe, 5115 and 2532 a crowne 4735 was giuen 1325 z5681 vnto him, 846 and 2532 hee went foorth 1831 z5627 conquering, 3528 z5723 and 2532 to 2443 conquere. 3528 z5661

Bow 5115 = From the base of G5088; a bow (apparently as the simplest fabric):—bow.

So the CROWN is made of a Wreath and the Clothes are SIMPLE FABRIC which shows he is an imposter. Whereas Jesus is shown as Majestic, the King of kings and Lord of lords. NOTICE :

Rev. 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

It is the Anti-Christ, this is basich stuff here man.

When the raptured church is in heaven, the actual understanding will be shown. There will be no different intepretations. Which means what John was not the raptured church.

It is shown, it just doesn't fit your narrative brother.

Rev. 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Rev. 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Angels don't need REDEEMING, the reason you can't get this is because you are set in your ways. This is the CHURCH in Heaven like I have been telling you for a long time. They are dressed in White Raiment in chapter 4, and in ch. 5 they are the Redeemed, but let's play pretend this is not the church because it doesn't fit "our eschatology". Wink, wink. Come on brother.

John, back 2000 years ago saw future events, but those were not specific enough at that time to say in the text that the rider on the white horse, is the Antichrist.

If John were the raptured church in heaven, he would have simply wrote this is the Antichrist and his name is so-n-no.

No he wouldn't have, Jesus gave him the text, Jesus is not going to Reveal the name of the Anti-Christ until he breaks the Seal. You have a right to be wrong.

You are making statements with no way of backing it up.

I back everything up with Scriptures. You timing of Revelation is just off.

 

[Revealing Times]

No, I don't believe any of the events revealed when the seals were opened have begun yet.

That is what I stated, he's just like you in that he believes that the Seals have been opened, he believes 4 have been opened, and 4 events have passed, you believe all of them have been opened but none of the event have come to pass. Which makes zero sense in either case. But you both believe SEALS have been opened when they haven't been opened.

No, you are trying to build a proof and then claiming it as "fact".

It is FACT, it is a plain reading of the bible. Rev. 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Plain as day.......................

All of that is interpretation, RT.

FACTS...............I understand the book of Revelation.

You and I are reading the same text, right"? You have rider on the white horse being at the "3.5 year Mark of the 70th Week (Jacob's troubles).

Differently, I view the person on the white horse, given a crown, because he has become the illegitimate King of Israel, the Antichrist, at the beginning of the 70week.

Israel never accepts the Anti-Christ as their King, nowhere in the bible says this or infers it.

We have different views, because the church is not heaven.

SURE..........Rev. 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Can we close our eyes and pretend the REDEEMED are not in this passage ? BEFORE the Seals are Opened !! Look, no one understand the timing as well as I do. It's my calling. It is what it is.

Which if the seals were opened in the future, after the church is in heaven as you are claiming - there would be no disagreements. Because if the seals were opened then, all of us would have the exact same awareness, because the events would be taking place real time, while the church is in heaven. And Revelation would be presented completely different, with the names of the false prophet, the beast, for example, known explicitly.

But since the seals were opened back in John's day, and not some time in the future, what is written Revelation there is a lot of disagreement and controversy.

Wrong, they are opened starting at the 3.5 year Mark of the 70th Week and we do have disagreements because people don't understand the book of Revelation. It is REAL TIME in the future. The book of Revelation is in perfect order, if you know how to read it.

No Seals have been opened, the First Seal is the Anti-Christ being sent forth !!