Struggling With The Sabbath

[BobRyan]

There is more than one issue rolling around here.

Issue #1: Which day is sabbath.

Sabbath is the seventh day. It begins Friday at sundown and continues until Saturday at sundown.

Amen that is correct.

Christians do not worship on the sabbath, but on the Lord's Day,

Christian worship on Sabbath and on the Lord's Day -- they are the same day - Saturday ... the 7th day... according to the Bible.

Mark 2:28 "the Son of Man is LORD of the SABBATH" -- never said about "week day 1".

And of course "There REMAINS thefefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God" Heb 4:9.

And then there is "from SABBATH to SABBATH shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" for all eternity -- Is 66:23.


Interesting how that pro-Sunday scholars affirm certain points that are often rejected by those who reject the continued moral obligation of the Sabbath Commandment.

D.L. Moody affirms that moral obligation for Christians in these words.

(Please look this up at the link included)
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BY THE
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]DWIGHT L. MOODY[/FONT][/FONT]​

The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17 ​

.
The Fourth Commandment

​

Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.​

[FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was[/FONT][FONT=&quot]- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; [/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

The "Baptist Confession of Faith" (so then of course C.H. Spurgeon) affirms the continued moral obligation of the Sabbath Commandment.

Please look this up at the link included in the quote below --

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[FONT=&quot]Baptist Confession of Faith Section 19 link[/FONT]


Section 19:

C.H. Spurgeon's edition of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" -- [FONT=&quot]CH Spurgeon[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

“The Perpetuity of the Law of God”
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]Very great mistakes have been made about the law. Not long ago there were those about us who affirmed that the law is utterly abrogated and abolished, and they openly taught that believers were not bound to make the moral law the rule of their lives. What would have been sin in other men they counted to be no sin in themselves. From such Antinomianism as that may God deliver us. We are not under the law as the method of salvation, but we delight to see the law in the hand of Christ, and desire to obey the Lord in all things. Others have been met with who have taught that Jesus mitigated and softened down the law, and they have in effect said that the perfect law of God was too hard for imperfect beings, and therefore God has given us a milder and easier rule. These tread dangerously upon the verge of terrible error, although we believe that they are little aware of it.

Section 19 of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" .

Section 19
. The Law of God

• God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

• The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

• Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

• To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it

 

[BobRyan]

The "Westminster Confession of Faith" affirms the continued moral obligation of the Sabbath Commandment -

look this up at the link provided.

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[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Westminster Confession of Faith Section 19[/FONT][/FONT]

"Westminster Confession of Faith"

[FONT=&quot]Chapter XIX[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Of the Law of God[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which He bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][1][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables:[/FONT][FONT=&quot][2][/FONT][FONT=&quot] the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][3][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, His graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;[/FONT][FONT=&quot][4][/FONT][FONT=&quot] and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][5][/FONT][FONT=&quot] All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][6][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
IV. To them also, as a body politic, He gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging under any now, further than the general equity thereof may require.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][7][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof;[/FONT][FONT=&quot][8][/FONT][FONT=&quot] and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][9][/FONT][FONT=&quot] Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][10][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned;[/FONT][FONT=&quot][11][/FONT][FONT=&quot] yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly;[/FONT][FONT=&quot][12][/FONT][FONT=&quot] discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives;[/FONT][FONT=&quot][13][/FONT][FONT=&quot] so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin,[/FONT][FONT=&quot][14][/FONT][FONT=&quot] together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of His obedience.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][15][/FONT][FONT=&quot] It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin:[/FONT][FONT=&quot][16][/FONT][FONT=&quot] and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][17][/FONT][FONT=&quot] The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof:[/FONT][FONT=&quot][18][/FONT][FONT=&quot] although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][19][/FONT][FONT=&quot] So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][20][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it;[/FONT][FONT=&quot][21][/FONT][FONT=&quot] the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][22][/FONT]


​

Section 21 of the Westminster and Section 22 of the Baptist both address point 7 "the change" the edit of the Sabbath commandment from the 7th day starting from creation and all through the OT and NT Gospel until the cross where it is "changed" in their mind -- to point to week-day-1.

 

[Meowzltov]

Christian worship on Sabbath and on the Lord's Day -- they are the same day - Saturday ... the 7th day... according to the Bible.

Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week, we gathered with the local believers to share in the Lord's Supper...
Sorry, but it is clear from this that Christians met for eucharist on Sunday, not Saturday.

 

[BobRyan]

Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week, we gathered with the local believers to share in the Lord's Supper...
Sorry, but it is clear from this that Christians met for eucharist on Sunday, not Saturday.

Acts 20 stand out because they were not doing it every week - the event was scheduled because Paul was due to leave the next day.

At no time is it called "The Lord's Day" or Sabbath.

But "Sabbath" is always identified as we see in Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18, Acts 15.

Never do we have "the Lord's Day" mentioned even once in the book of Acts.

In Acts 20 there is not even a mention of communion or the "Lord's table".

In Acts 2 they break bread together every day - from house to house.

Notice how specific - and deliberate they are in identifying the Lord's Supper that "Celebrates is death (Friday evening) until He comes".

1 Cor 11

19 For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you. 20 Therefore when you meet together, it is not to eat the Lord’s Supper,21 for in your eating each one takes his own supper first; and one is hungry and another is drunk. 22 What! Do you not have houses in which to eat and drink? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you? In this I will not praise you. 23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25 In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.

No such language in Acts 20.

There we find this "instead".

Acts 20
6 We sailed from Philippi after the days of Unleavened Bread, and came to them at Troas within five days; and there we stayed seven days. 7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight. 8 There were many lamps in the upper room where we were gathered together.

Breaking bread - but no "Lord's Supper" no "Lord's Day" no "proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes". No day of holy observation mentioned except for the feast of "Unleavened Bread" which is 7 days. And they say there "Seven Days" for that holy day - and it BEGINS with Passover so the celebration of the Lord's Supper may well have STARTED that seven day holy time - but it does not appear that they end it that way.

The focus is on Paul's departure and breaking bread - sharing a meal together.

When the two discouraged disciples on the road to Emaus walk unkowingly with Christ -- they too go to their home and share a meal - break bread - but it is not a celebration of the Lord's Table - for they are in utter discouragement. It is simply fellowship and a shared meal - sunday evening which is the Bible "Monday".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

CF broken post edit.

 

[BobRyan]

both Sabbath and the Lord's Day in the Bible are Saturday - but a "change" was made at some point - by man-made- tradition
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For example Leo Trese in his book "The Faith Explained" -- commentary on the Baltimore Catechism after Vatican II -



[FONT=&quot]The Faith Explained[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (an RC commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican ii) states on Page 242 that [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
====================begin short summary
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]changing the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord's day[/FONT][FONT=&quot] to Sunday[/FONT][FONT=&quot] was in the power of the church since "in the gospels ..Jesus confers upon his church the power to make laws in his name". [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]page 243

"Nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day From Saturday to Sunday. We know of the change only from the tradition of the Church - a fact handed down to us...that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many Non-Catholics, who say that they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and Yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church"

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]====================================== begin expanded quote
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. (from "The Faith Explained" page 243[/FONT][FONT=&quot].))

"[/FONT][FONT=&quot]we know that in the O.T it was the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]seventh day[/FONT][FONT=&quot] of the week - the Sabbath day [/FONT][FONT=&quot]- which was [/FONT][FONT=&quot]observed as the Lord's day[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. that was [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the law as God gave it[/FONT][FONT=&quot]...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day[/FONT][FONT=&quot].. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]church had the right to make such a law[/FONT][FONT=&quot] is evident[/FONT][FONT=&quot]...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The reason for [/FONT][FONT=&quot]changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday[/FONT][FONT=&quot] lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday.[/FONT][FONT=&quot].that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church[/FONT]
​

 

[BobRyan]

Another source claiming that the Lord's Day and Sabbath in the Bible are Saturday - but were later "changed" such that the moral obligation for those Bible ordained days is now fulfilled by week-day-1 observance according to man-made tradition.

Notice that the Lord's Day is said to be Saturday as given by God - and it too is - "bent" to point to week-day-1 in this next statement.
note this "bending action" for the Sabbath.

2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.

They are having to describe the one event of the resurrection as a "bent sabbath" because they need the Sabbath's "weekly cycle" and they don't have Jesus resurrected "once a week" nor a 7 day crucifixion nor a 7 day-in-the-grave etc.

They have ONE Birth of Christ and ONE death of Christ. But nothing of a 7 day nature for either one.

So they NEED the creation WEEK Sabbath cycle of 7 days - to "bend" -- to get this as a weekly event.


======================

Your 2168 - 2173 admits the Lord's Day is Sabbath as given by God in the actual Bible -

I. The Sabbath Day
2168 The third commandment of the Decalogue recalls the holiness of the sabbath: "The seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD."92
2169 In speaking of the sabbath Scripture recalls creation: "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it."93
2170 Scripture also reveals in the Lord's day a memorial of Israel's liberation from bondage in Egypt: "You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out thence with mighty hand and outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep The Sabbath day."94




God declares the Sabbath to be the Lord's Day in that 2170 example - taken from Deut 5. And of course we find that same thing in Isaiah 58 - the Sabbath, the Lord's Day.



Keeping the Sabbath

13 “If because of the Sabbath, you turn your foot
From doing your own pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight, the holy day of the Lord honorable,
And honor it, desisting from your own ways,
From seeking your own pleasure
And speaking your own word,



in Christ,

Bob[/quote]

 

[samkadya]

Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, kept the Sabbath. “And when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath….And the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God” (Acts 13:42-44). Here we read that the early Christians, “almost the whole city,” came together on the Sabbath day. So the commandment was still in effect after the cross, even during the early days of Christianity.

Because Isaiah clearly prophesied that the Sabbath would be kept during the restoration of God’s people, we can infer that the Bible indicates that Sabbath observance will continue right into eternity. ” ‘And it shall come to pass that from one New Moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, all fresh shall come to worship before Me, says the Lord” (Isaiah 66:23).

 

[Sophrosyne]

Coming together on the Sabbath day does not equate the proper keeping of it no more than a group of atheists meeting on December 25th being seen as celebrating Christmas.

 

[BobRyan]

Coming together on the Sabbath day does not equate the proper keeping of it no more than a group of atheists meeting on December 25th being seen as celebrating Christmas.

Well in Lev 23:1-3 God Himself said that gathering for corporate "holy convocation" worship is part of Sabbath observance.

No wonder in Is 66:23 we find "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" for all eternity - after the cross after even the New Earth.

 

[GracetotheHumble]

I finally have peace about it. One man esteems one day above another and another esteems every day alike.

 

[Soyeong]

I finally have peace about it. One man esteems one day above another and another esteems every day alike.

Whether man esteems a day is a different issue than whether God esteems a day. As Leviticus 23 says, the appointed festivals, including the Sabbath, belong to God and they came about because He commanded them to be kept, not because man esteemed those days. The context of Romans 14 is made clear in the first verse, namely that the chapter is in regard to disputable matters of opinion. For instance, the only day God commands fasting is on Yom Kippur, but it was a common practice as a matter of opinion to fast twice or week to commemorate certain days. Those who fasted were judging those who didn't and were in turn being resented. It was these sort frivolous conflicts that were causing dissension that Paul was seeking to curtail. They might dispute how to obey God's commands, but they didn't dispute whether God should be obeyed. So whether to fast or which days to fast was a disputable matter of opinion, but whether to fast on Yom Kippur is a matter of obedience to God. The same goes with keeping God's Sabbath.

 

[Meowzltov]

Your 2168 - 2173 admits the Lord's Day is Sabbath as given by God in the actual Bible -

I don't see any evidence provided by you that the Lord's Day is the sabbath. Last time I did research, the Bible itself was not clear which day of the week was the Lord's day -- you had to go to the Early Church Fathers for clarification.

 

[Meowzltov]

Christian worship on Sabbath and on the Lord's Day -- they are the same day - Saturday ... the 7th day... according to the Bible.

Christians broke bread on the first day of the week. Acts 20:7 "On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. "

 

[outsidethecamp]

Did you know the OT Sabbath which was physical rest was only a foreshadowing of Jesus Christ as our true Sabbath Rest?

What good does a day of physical rest do for you if you do not have the spiritual rest that Jesus promises? He wants you to have rest 7x24x365.

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

If you are only concerned with the 10 commandments then you will not have a pure heart. The Spirit of God, not the letter of the Law will give you a pure heart and clean conscience before God and you will have PEACE.

Matt 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Matt 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

If you want to be delivered from lust, fear, self-righteousness or anything else, don't go to the Law, come to Jesus.

 

[listed]

Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, kept the Sabbath. “And when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath….And the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God” (Acts 13:42-44). Here we read that the early Christians, “almost the whole city,” came together on the Sabbath day. So the commandment was still in effect after the cross, even during the early days of Christianity.

Because Isaiah clearly prophesied that the Sabbath would be kept during the restoration of God’s people, we can infer that the Bible indicates that Sabbath observance will continue right into eternity. ” ‘And it shall come to pass that from one New Moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, all fresh shall come to worship before Me, says the Lord” (Isaiah 66:23).

The fact Paul attended the synagogue is no proof of keeping the Sabbath.

I have asked Bob Ryan too no avail about how does from.. to pertain to the Sabbath. There is nothing in that verse about the Sabbath or even happening on the Sabbath.

 

[outsidethecamp]

The fact Paul attended the synagogue is no proof of keeping the Sabbath.

I have asked Bob Ryan too no avail about how does from.. to pertain to the Sabbath. There is nothing in that verse about the Sabbath or even happening on the Sabbath.

This would be a major doctrine and there is no teaching about it the NT. Where are the two or three other witnesses of NT scripture? All major teaching has multiple witnesses of scripture.

Also, how would Gentiles know that they had to keep the Sabbath but not the same way as it was kept in the OT? Where is the transition teaching in the NT of keeping a "modified" Sabbath? How does one know how to "keep the Sabbath" since no one keeps it the way it was kept in the OT? I can't find this transition teaching that the Gentiles should have received.

Only requirements from the OT to the Gentiles that I can find is this in Acts 15:

1. No partaking in meats offered to idols.
2. Partaking of blood
3. Partaking of things strangled
4. Fornication

Other than that, the NT is silent, except for of course Jesus being our Rest.

Col_2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

 

[Meowzltov]

Did you know the OT Sabbath which was physical rest was only a foreshadowing of Jesus Christ as our true Sabbath Rest?

When we say Jesus is our sabbath rest, we are only speaking figuratively. The sabbath will always be a time, not a person.

 

[Meowzltov]

If you are only concerned with the 10 commandments then you will not have a pure heart. The Spirit of God, not the letter of the Law will give you a pure heart and clean conscience before God and you will have PEACE.

Keeping the sabbath is not keeping the letter of the law, but it's spirit as well.

At any rate, only Jews are required to keep the sabbath. The council of Jerusalem freed Gentile believers from having to keep Mosaic law.