Hey again. I wrote on these boards about my problems with OCD and the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit sometime last winter, and things are getting bad again. For the past few days, I have been fighting off thoughts against the Holy Spirit, and it was kind of reaching that point where I run out of fear and just get over it.... it's like it gets so exhausting that I just can't worry anymore. Last night, though, I had a dream that was about my situation. It was really vague, but I either dreamed about being sad about my problem or that I realized that I actually had blasphemed or something. I sort of woke up, but I was still half-asleep, and I thought a few terrible thoughts against the Holy Spirit, thoughts that seemed much more sincere than the usual thoughts that I have to deal with. I feel like I've been suckerpunched and I don't know what to do. I was feeling emotions from that dream and thought things that I think I would have been able to stop had I been awake, and now I don't know how accountable I am for those thoughts. If anyone has been here or has any insight, please post.
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Struggling.... Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit
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kaykay9.0
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These sounds like pretty typical OCD. All kinds of thoughts can go through our head when we're awake or asleep. That doesn't mean we are "consenting" to them or in agreement with them. Just the way the minds works. Really, though, it's difficult to do, I know from personal experience that the less credence, importance or attention you pay to the thoughts, the quicker they will leave.
This is my recommendation about this type of OCD~ If you must in order to feel ok doing this, say to the Lord ONE time and ONE time only, something like, "Lord, you know that I don't want these blasphemous, intrusive thoughts. So when or if they come, in order to ultimately get rid of them, I am not going to attend to them, ask forgiveness for them or counter them in any way." The Lord, of course, knows that but if that makes you feel better, then go ahead and say that again, ONE time only to the Lord. From then on out, try to pay as little attention as possible to these thoughts. It's tough, but it works. Also, if you are not seeking some type of professional help for your OCD struggles, I would strongly recommend it.
This is my recommendation about this type of OCD~ If you must in order to feel ok doing this, say to the Lord ONE time and ONE time only, something like, "Lord, you know that I don't want these blasphemous, intrusive thoughts. So when or if they come, in order to ultimately get rid of them, I am not going to attend to them, ask forgiveness for them or counter them in any way." The Lord, of course, knows that but if that makes you feel better, then go ahead and say that again, ONE time only to the Lord. From then on out, try to pay as little attention as possible to these thoughts. It's tough, but it works. Also, if you are not seeking some type of professional help for your OCD struggles, I would strongly recommend it.
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the.Sheepdog
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What Ms KayKay said. You are not blaspheming the Holy Spirit and indeed are not capable of doing so. If you look in scripture where that comes up it is Pharisee's who are taunting Jesus and acting the jerk and disbelieving Him. SCripture says they were already condemned.
This is one thing that comes up almost daily and I have seen it in reports daily when I was a mod here. The Father holds you in His hands and not even Jesus can wrestle you out!
You have no shot at doing it yourself! Face it you are saved and loved and covered until the forever recycles twice!
This is one thing that comes up almost daily and I have seen it in reports daily when I was a mod here. The Father holds you in His hands and not even Jesus can wrestle you out!
You have no shot at doing it yourself! Face it you are saved and loved and covered until the forever recycles twice!
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I know how bad it hurts to have these thoughts because I remember when they were bad daily. Like uncontrollable flairs and so bad that sometimes I just had to stop everything and lay down because it was too exhausting. But no matter how you feel, remember that you are in the Lord's hands. John 10: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. And although it may look scary, in reality you are safe. Sometimes its hard to track the source of the thoughts down, but regardless where they come from, you know that you dont want them and the Lord knows that too. You are not sitting back enjoying them but if you had a button, as I always say, to get rid of them you would push it in a heartbeat. The Lord knows us. He tells us that in the first chapter of Jeremiah. He knew us before we knew ourselves. He knows our situation better than we do. We have to trust that He is just as He says He is just to where He wouldnt punish us for intrusive thoughts and is merciful as He says He is merciful to where if we said something out of anger or something was on our behalf, if we repented and confessed, He will forgive us. Don't let these dark times keep you from going to Him. Continue to press forward, despite what it look likes, because He will bless you for loving Him and following Him when not only it feels right, but when everything feels wrong as well. Praying.
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Well, I just kind of had something weird happen to me. I just woke up, and I was feeling kind of refreshed or whatever, and I started thinking about the situation I'm having with the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Thinking one of the things that I have been trying not to for a while suddenly seemed really appealing for no apparent reason, and it kind of ran through my mind a couple of times. I think it seemed kind of like a release or something. It wasn't just a little spike, but I didn't quite use the extra-deliberate internal monologue that one prays with, so I am really confused about what happened. The worst is that I didn't have the usual freak out that I have after a thought this bad happens. Ha I guess I'm worried that I am not feeling all that alarmed because I have always done so and associated it with still being connected to God. Anyways, I don't know what to think, and I am scared that I might have just chosen to blaspheme. Thanks y'all. Jesus is Lord.
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Navyreb...you gots nothing to fear..I've struggled with this.and have had similar experiences with dreams and thoughts..thinking bad things about the Holy Spirit etc..for years..but you gotta realize its just the devil torementing you
you are looking to your feelings and thoughts for justification..you cant do that..I used to..I would look deep into my heart..to see what I actually did..you cant do that..because more then half the time..you will condemn yourself of having of done it...
you gotta look outside of yourself..deep down...in time you will see that The Holy Spirit is still there..always..has been..and always will be..the every fact you come here.is a sign...how you type about what your experiencing shows you you care....
God knew people would struggled with this...if it where that easy to just think and say a simple thing..to do the unforgivable sin..many I mean many..are lost and will be lost..because all the devil has to do is inject a bad thought or in our weak moment tempt someone...we'd all be screwed.because of our flesh etc
but you gotta realize the complete work of Christ..once you are His..you are always His..the bible says what Christ paid for..for all sin..for all time
you will not notice an exception saying he paid for all sin except blasphemy against the Spirit.....The bible does clearly say He paid for ALL sin..for ALL time..
once you became Christ's..you got a new heart..and you were transformed..the old went away and the new came..
you got a new heart...Jesus said He will never leave us....and you must realize that..no matter what you do..or say..you cant get rid of Him..you are not strong enough to do so..nor is the devil of this world...
there was a time..recently in my life.I was a ver angry person...but a long story made short..I did actually say curses and swears agaisnt The Holy Spirit..in rage and anger.not just one day..there would be days I would do it while driving or in my house or work..because I had alot of issues in my life..I hated God..I meant what I said..and I didnt feel that sorry for doing it..nor ask for forgiveness..I would say what the pharisee's did in the bible..and much much worse.I said those things to hurt..because I was in deep pain from not knowing God and issues of my mine..but I said them.to hurt..
you gotta realize this..just like all other sin..and our flesh..its by grace we are saved....and are kept.. like Paul said...his left hand does right but the very next moment his right is doing wrong...we fall so much and so very often..we stumble..etc etc
Jesus knew this..its hard in this world..but we have Him..thats why he came..because we cannot do it..the Law of Moses couldnt..but through Jesus we can..with His Spirit
remember in the bible..its not by might or something..but by His Spirit says the Lord..something like that
and thats how it is so..you cant stop sinning on your own strength and by the fallen illnesses of this world and what it causes mean.. its by His Spirit and His strength and time..you will grow..by time...He is bigger and greater then your sin..and He is not mad at you
you must see..he is greater and bigger then your sin...and He is smiling at you..this will pass...you must and try to see..he is smiling at you..not mad...your sin is dealt with..you gotta try and see that HIs love for you is greater..what your are going through He cares..but His love makes it nothing for Him to see past your weakness..because He loves you that much
Satan will say otherwise...you may not see what Im saying..but its what I went through..and am going through
things will come in time..what we dont realize today..we will tomorrow
everything will be ok...don't let the flesh or the destroyer keep stealing another day..over something that in God's eyes is so small compared to His love for you...
He really is smiling at you
you are looking to your feelings and thoughts for justification..you cant do that..I used to..I would look deep into my heart..to see what I actually did..you cant do that..because more then half the time..you will condemn yourself of having of done it...
you gotta look outside of yourself..deep down...in time you will see that The Holy Spirit is still there..always..has been..and always will be..the every fact you come here.is a sign...how you type about what your experiencing shows you you care....
God knew people would struggled with this...if it where that easy to just think and say a simple thing..to do the unforgivable sin..many I mean many..are lost and will be lost..because all the devil has to do is inject a bad thought or in our weak moment tempt someone...we'd all be screwed.because of our flesh etc
but you gotta realize the complete work of Christ..once you are His..you are always His..the bible says what Christ paid for..for all sin..for all time
you will not notice an exception saying he paid for all sin except blasphemy against the Spirit.....The bible does clearly say He paid for ALL sin..for ALL time..
once you became Christ's..you got a new heart..and you were transformed..the old went away and the new came..
you got a new heart...Jesus said He will never leave us....and you must realize that..no matter what you do..or say..you cant get rid of Him..you are not strong enough to do so..nor is the devil of this world...
there was a time..recently in my life.I was a ver angry person...but a long story made short..I did actually say curses and swears agaisnt The Holy Spirit..in rage and anger.not just one day..there would be days I would do it while driving or in my house or work..because I had alot of issues in my life..I hated God..I meant what I said..and I didnt feel that sorry for doing it..nor ask for forgiveness..I would say what the pharisee's did in the bible..and much much worse.I said those things to hurt..because I was in deep pain from not knowing God and issues of my mine..but I said them.to hurt..
you gotta realize this..just like all other sin..and our flesh..its by grace we are saved....and are kept.. like Paul said...his left hand does right but the very next moment his right is doing wrong...we fall so much and so very often..we stumble..etc etc
Jesus knew this..its hard in this world..but we have Him..thats why he came..because we cannot do it..the Law of Moses couldnt..but through Jesus we can..with His Spirit
remember in the bible..its not by might or something..but by His Spirit says the Lord..something like that
and thats how it is so..you cant stop sinning on your own strength and by the fallen illnesses of this world and what it causes mean.. its by His Spirit and His strength and time..you will grow..by time...He is bigger and greater then your sin..and He is not mad at you
you must see..he is greater and bigger then your sin...and He is smiling at you..this will pass...you must and try to see..he is smiling at you..not mad...your sin is dealt with..you gotta try and see that HIs love for you is greater..what your are going through He cares..but His love makes it nothing for Him to see past your weakness..because He loves you that much
Satan will say otherwise...you may not see what Im saying..but its what I went through..and am going through
things will come in time..what we dont realize today..we will tomorrow
everything will be ok...don't let the flesh or the destroyer keep stealing another day..over something that in God's eyes is so small compared to His love for you...
He really is smiling at you
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gracealone
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HI Navy,
Just as Kaykay pointed out in regard to your previous post - this too is pretty typical of OCD. The thoughts may come even when we are relaxed and not feeling particulary anxious. It then may seem that we are wanting to think them. Then we begin the old "checking" activity. "Am I upset about this? I really should be. I don't feel upset. Does that mean I don't care about whether or not I'm blashpheming?" Then before we even realize it "Bam!" we're suddenly upset and anxious again and fearful that this all might be a sign - an indicator that we're doomed.
All OCD roads lead back to the same feared consequences. The paths may appear to be different but in the end we're anxiously obsessing on the same theme.
In your first post you used the word "struggling." My word in response to my religious OCD was "striving". It's very hard to realize that the striving and struggling is perpetuating the disorder and that those are the things we must cease doing in response to the thoughts. It will feel like risky business to do so but if we keep up the battle we'll only get mired deeper and deeper into the painful OCD cycle.
KayKay gave you excellent counsel. Do your level best to ignore the thoughts or you'll make them bigger.
Praying for you.
Mitzi
Just as Kaykay pointed out in regard to your previous post - this too is pretty typical of OCD. The thoughts may come even when we are relaxed and not feeling particulary anxious. It then may seem that we are wanting to think them. Then we begin the old "checking" activity. "Am I upset about this? I really should be. I don't feel upset. Does that mean I don't care about whether or not I'm blashpheming?" Then before we even realize it "Bam!" we're suddenly upset and anxious again and fearful that this all might be a sign - an indicator that we're doomed.
All OCD roads lead back to the same feared consequences. The paths may appear to be different but in the end we're anxiously obsessing on the same theme.
In your first post you used the word "struggling." My word in response to my religious OCD was "striving". It's very hard to realize that the striving and struggling is perpetuating the disorder and that those are the things we must cease doing in response to the thoughts. It will feel like risky business to do so but if we keep up the battle we'll only get mired deeper and deeper into the painful OCD cycle.
KayKay gave you excellent counsel. Do your level best to ignore the thoughts or you'll make them bigger.
Praying for you.
Mitzi
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everything will be ok...don't let the flesh or the destroyer keep stealing another day..over something that in God's eyes is so small compared to His love for you...
He really is smiling at you
amen HoneyComb. I'm so happy right now. Can't stop smiling. I'm glad that the Lord is using you to encourage our brothers and sisters in Christ. You've truly encouraged me today =]
Navy, we'll get to the point when we'll realize that the thoughts are distractions and when they come and I dont respond it doesnt mean that I want them and am secretly enjoying them and have let them overtake me, it just means that I trust God is just as He has proven and says He is and wont condemn us for something I dont want. It's having faith in Him despite how things appear to be. So they go in and they go out, but His love stays in our heart, His words and promises is what stays. I've had so many crazy thoughts but at the end of the day I'm still on my knees praying to Him believing in Him. They come and go but He is forever and will always stay . Praying for you.
He really is smiling at you
amen HoneyComb. I'm so happy right now. Can't stop smiling. I'm glad that the Lord is using you to encourage our brothers and sisters in Christ. You've truly encouraged me today =]
Navy, we'll get to the point when we'll realize that the thoughts are distractions and when they come and I dont respond it doesnt mean that I want them and am secretly enjoying them and have let them overtake me, it just means that I trust God is just as He has proven and says He is and wont condemn us for something I dont want. It's having faith in Him despite how things appear to be. So they go in and they go out, but His love stays in our heart, His words and promises is what stays. I've had so many crazy thoughts but at the end of the day I'm still on my knees praying to Him believing in Him. They come and go but He is forever and will always stay . Praying for you.
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I guess I'm worried because this time the the thoughts didn't just pop in my head like something that just occurred to me. I actually well, thought the thoughts. Some little part of me was freaking out, but it's like I had been trying so hard not to think them that I just had to. I don't know what to think though because it was something in between a totally random thought and something that I deliberately say out of my heart, but leaning towards the latter. I've been in those situations where I went through a lot of doubt about whether or not I meant to think it, but this was a lot different and a lot worse. I keep wanting to think that it will all be ok, but Jesus said what He said about blaspheming the Holy Spirit for a reason, so there has to be some point where it actually applies. Although I do wonder if blasphemy or speaking against something is more of a public thing, like if you were to try to convince people that the Holy Spirit wasn't real, was evil, etc. I just don't get why you could blaspheme the Father and Son and be forgiven, but not the Spirit? And I'm also tired of feeling like I've been made predisposed to a sin that leads to damnation but given a heart that loves God. I start to think in terms of "hypothetical Gods." There is the One who loves me and takes a lot of convincing before He says "Okay this guy has blasphemed the Spirit and can't be forgiven," and then there's the God who is quick to convict people of it. I get mad at God before even knowing what He has really done, and it gets me down and takes my joy away. And my feelings are kind of hurt because I prayed yesterday or the day before or so that I would never just kind of lose my senses and think that purposely/ semi-purposely thinking the thoughts I have been trying so hard not to think would be a good idea, and then it happened. Nature tries to fill voids, and I feel like putting up mental walls around something and trying not to think it led to all of this.
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I've said things against the Spirit..Yet in His love Im forgiven..I cant explain it nor understand..because like you the bible says about it..but you gotta realize..its not what you think...
you cant just have a spill out of words and be lost forever...if I can be forgiven for the many things I have said against The Spirit..then you can too!
God knows your heart
and He has paid a price for all sin for all time
you can get mad at God..go ahead I do..God's love for you is bigger and He will smile back..and love you you cant hurt him..because he loves you too much
you cant just have a spill out of words and be lost forever...if I can be forgiven for the many things I have said against The Spirit..then you can too!
God knows your heart
and He has paid a price for all sin for all timeyou can get mad at God..go ahead
I do..God's love for you is bigger and He will smile back..and love you you cant hurt him..because he loves you too much
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gracealone
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Hi Navyreb,
You are caught up in the compulsive problem solving fog of pure "O". You feel very strongly that you simply must figure this out or you'll never have peace. Trying not to think the thoughts and praying that you wouldn't think them carelessly or on purpose is certainly going to make you think them all the more. It also tricks the brain into interpreting the thoughts as legitimate/valid emergencies. Most of my OCD thoughts feel like I want to think them but the anxiety and the search for reassurance/certainty in regard to them are solid indicators that they are due to my OCD.
It's helped me to think of my OCD thoughts as tics of the mind. With tourette's syndrome a person will often blurt out words that are extremely offensive and seem purposefully chosen. Like if an obese person walks by them they might blurt out something like "fatso". The person with tourette's cannot control that outburst and doesn't want to be unkind or rude but their brain pushes the thoughts out of their mouth. It feels like they have to say them and that can make them feel like it's their fault.
With OCD the unwanted/instrusive thoughts can also seem to be chosen but they are no more chosen than the verbal outbursts of the person with tourette's.
The more you attend to them the worse you will feel. If you can force yourself to just allow their presence without engaging in any rumination about them you'll be managing them instead of letting them manage you.
Praying for you,
Mitzi
You are caught up in the compulsive problem solving fog of pure "O". You feel very strongly that you simply must figure this out or you'll never have peace. Trying not to think the thoughts and praying that you wouldn't think them carelessly or on purpose is certainly going to make you think them all the more. It also tricks the brain into interpreting the thoughts as legitimate/valid emergencies. Most of my OCD thoughts feel like I want to think them but the anxiety and the search for reassurance/certainty in regard to them are solid indicators that they are due to my OCD.
It's helped me to think of my OCD thoughts as tics of the mind. With tourette's syndrome a person will often blurt out words that are extremely offensive and seem purposefully chosen. Like if an obese person walks by them they might blurt out something like "fatso". The person with tourette's cannot control that outburst and doesn't want to be unkind or rude but their brain pushes the thoughts out of their mouth. It feels like they have to say them and that can make them feel like it's their fault.
With OCD the unwanted/instrusive thoughts can also seem to be chosen but they are no more chosen than the verbal outbursts of the person with tourette's.
The more you attend to them the worse you will feel. If you can force yourself to just allow their presence without engaging in any rumination about them you'll be managing them instead of letting them manage you.
Praying for you,
Mitzi
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I see what you're saying... I don't know though, this time seems different from all of the others. Ha of course it always does. Usually, I get worried that I will think a thought, then I concentrate very hard on not thinking that thought, and then it sort of spikes its way in. This time, I woke up feeling kind of funny, and I thought the thoughts just like I say anything else in my head. It was like the part of me that wants to think things just because I can't think them was enlarged, and my will to control myself was diminished. I'm positive that I was not in a normal frame of mind and that I did not put myself in that state, but I worry that that alone is not enough to negate the fact that I "said" those thoughts in my mind. Another thing that gives me hope is the fact that I was really just playing what I refer to as word games in my head. Jesus said anyone who might blaspheme (the aorist subjunctive makes it might or may blaspheme rather than plain ole blaspheme) the Holy Spirit has no forgiveness, so my mind labeled constructions of words saying things against the Holy Spirit off limits. This leads to me worrying about thinking certain words rather than worrying that I will actually say things with intent against the Spirit. I'm about 70% that when I thought those things, I was really just thinking words that I had deemed off limits and was not really trying to advocate the meaning behind them.... at least I hope that's what it was. In other words, my OCD has sort of ritualized the whole thing, making it meaningless.
When I woke up and thought those thoughts, I was in an unstable frame of mind, and its like I was just trying to make myself feel better. The part of me that usually stops such thoughts dead in their tracts was still there and worried, but it was like it was frozen or something. "No one can say, "Jesus is Lord," unless he has the Holy Spirit" and I say it and mean it all the time. Ha by the way, Jesus is Lord. I'm still worried though because this is the first time that I really feel like I was responsible rather than the victim of an accident. I don't know if it matters that I felt like I couldn't stop myself, was in an altered state of mind, and was thinking more about those words I shouldn't say rather than actually trying to harm the Holy Spirit. And even if I haven't blasphemed in an unforgiveable manner, I still have feelings of resentment towards God that I have no business having, and I also don't feel that I'll ever have a rock-solid way of knowing whether I am saved or whether I'm just bending the truth and convincing myself that things are ok, and I'm afraid that it will always be there undermining my relationship with God. I can't fix these things, but hopefully God can. Please keep me in your prayers.
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kaykay9.0
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NavyReb~
It still just sounds like OCD to me. The fact of the matter is that I don't believe that you in any real way want to blaspheme as this scripture mentions. And yes, OCD, will always tell you but yes, it was different this time. I know also that if someone is battling OCD and this is your current obsession, my reassurance or anyone else's is not going to help you in any kind of permanent way or if it does with this particular obsession, the OCD will likely morph into another area. I can't remember if you are treating the OCD with meds or counseling or anything, but if not, please get some help that way. In other words, when dealing with OCD, we have to ultimately treat the "root" (the OCD) and not just the "fruit."(the obsessions)
Really, when the OCD dies down, the obsession can lessen to the point that you can then correctly
see the situation for what it is. Until then, we have trouble seeing the "forest for the trees." We tend to go over and over various scriptures analyzing down to the finest point, what exactly was meant by this and also analyzing over and over our thoughts and feelings to see if this scripture could pertain to us. That is the nature of religious OCD. Often, we can even recognize that someone's elses obsession is not reality-based at the same time we're dealing with our different own obsession on another front. In fact, I myself do that here in fact. Many times I can speak to someone else about their obsession while battling my own different one.
What I mean by that is this~ when we are OCD-obsessing about something, it's hard to see the truth. Others may, but we can't. Hope this makes some sense to you.
And yes, you asked for prayer. I will pray for you in this.
And by the way, it is not uncommon to feel anger towards God when you're dealing with something like this. Not that we should. Obviously, we shouldn't, but it's common. You're certainly not alone in feeling that way when dealing with this kind of stuff.
And another by the way, you're not alone thing~ When I was seeing a counselor, (She is a licensed professional counselor, but she is also a strong Christian.) I had never told her that I had the fear of blaspheming the Holy Spirit obsession because it wasnt my current obsession. But she happened to mention to me that she was surprised I never had that one because she said in her experience almost every Christian who battles OCD has dealt with that particular obsession at one time or another. I had to kinda laugh at that point and say, well, don't be surprised because I had that one in the past too! Of course, I know OCD and how it talks~ it will say yes, but all her other clients hadn't done, thought or said what I have!
OCD wil always find some "reason" why our case is different when really, it isn't.
It still just sounds like OCD to me. The fact of the matter is that I don't believe that you in any real way want to blaspheme as this scripture mentions. And yes, OCD, will always tell you but yes, it was different this time. I know also that if someone is battling OCD and this is your current obsession, my reassurance or anyone else's is not going to help you in any kind of permanent way or if it does with this particular obsession, the OCD will likely morph into another area. I can't remember if you are treating the OCD with meds or counseling or anything, but if not, please get some help that way. In other words, when dealing with OCD, we have to ultimately treat the "root" (the OCD) and not just the "fruit."(the obsessions)
Really, when the OCD dies down, the obsession can lessen to the point that you can then correctly
see the situation for what it is. Until then, we have trouble seeing the "forest for the trees." We tend to go over and over various scriptures analyzing down to the finest point, what exactly was meant by this and also analyzing over and over our thoughts and feelings to see if this scripture could pertain to us. That is the nature of religious OCD. Often, we can even recognize that someone's elses obsession is not reality-based at the same time we're dealing with our different own obsession on another front. In fact, I myself do that here in fact. Many times I can speak to someone else about their obsession while battling my own different one.
What I mean by that is this~ when we are OCD-obsessing about something, it's hard to see the truth. Others may, but we can't. Hope this makes some sense to you.And yes, you asked for prayer. I will pray for you in this.
And by the way, it is not uncommon to feel anger towards God when you're dealing with something like this. Not that we should. Obviously, we shouldn't, but it's common. You're certainly not alone in feeling that way when dealing with this kind of stuff.
And another by the way, you're not alone thing~ When I was seeing a counselor, (She is a licensed professional counselor, but she is also a strong Christian.) I had never told her that I had the fear of blaspheming the Holy Spirit obsession because it wasnt my current obsession. But she happened to mention to me that she was surprised I never had that one because she said in her experience almost every Christian who battles OCD has dealt with that particular obsession at one time or another. I had to kinda laugh at that point and say, well, don't be surprised because I had that one in the past too! Of course, I know OCD and how it talks~ it will say yes, but all her other clients hadn't done, thought or said what I have!
OCD wil always find some "reason" why our case is different when really, it isn't.
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NavyReb~
It still just sounds like OCD to me. The fact of the matter is that I don't believe that you in any real way want to blaspheme as this scripture mentions. And yes, OCD, will always tell you but yes, it was different this time. I know also that if someone is battling OCD and this is your current obsession, my reassurance or anyone else's is not going to help you in any kind of permanent way or if it does with this particular obsession, the OCD will likely morph into another area. I can't remember if you are treating the OCD with meds or counseling or anything, but if not, please get some help that way. In other words, when dealing with OCD, we have to ultimately treat the "root" (the OCD) and not just the "fruit."(the obsessions)
Really, when the OCD dies down, the obsession can lessen to the point that you can then correctly
see the situation for what it is. Until then, we have trouble seeing the "forest for the trees." We tend to go over and over various scriptures analyzing down to the finest point, what exactly was meant by this and also analyzing over and over our thoughts and feelings to see if this scripture could pertain to us. That is the nature of religious OCD. Often, we can even recognize that someone's elses obsession is not reality-based at the same time we're dealing with our different own obsession on another front. In fact, I myself do that here in fact. Many times I can speak to someone else about their obsession while battling my own different one.
And yes, you asked for prayer. I will pray for you in this.
And by the way, it is not uncommon to feel anger towards God when you're dealing with something like this. Not that we should. Obviously, we shouldn't, but it's common. You're certainly not alone in feeling that way when dealing with this kind of stuff.
And another by the way, you're not alone thing~ When I was seeing a counselor, (She is a licensed professional counselor, but she is also a strong Christian.) I had never told her that I had the fear of blaspheming the Holy Spirit obsession because it wasnt my current obsession. But she happened to mention to me that she was surprised I never had that one because she said in her experience almost every Christian who battles OCD has dealt with that particular obsession at one time or another. I had to kinda laugh at that point and say, well, don't be surprised because I had that one in the past too! Of course, I know OCD and how it talks~ it will say yes, but all her other clients hadn't done, thought or said what I have!
Do you ever get very analytical with all of the kinds of thoughts you have? Whenever I have a "thought" against the Holy Spirit, I always try to break it down into what kind of thought it is. It seems to me that there is a difference between thinking about something or having something pop in your head and actively thinking it. When I say actively thinking it, I mean saying it in your head with your internal monologue.... the voice you pray with. Typically, I have more passive thoughts popping in my head without me actively thinking them, or I mean to say one thing with my internal monologue but accidentally say something bad. These thoughts were more active, meaning that I initiated them, rather than me feeling that I was attacked with them, and that is something new for me. Do most people struggling with blasphemous thoughts just have these terrible thoughts that they can't help, or do they actually mentally say things? I think that there is a distinction, and it is what has me worried. I don't know what got into me, and I always worried that blaspheming would sound like a good idea or a release of tension, and then this happened. My feelings in response to it are not the normal frantic ones that I have. Instead, I'm more calm and deeply saddened, and all the differences between these circumstances and the usual ones make me fear that I really did it this time. I didn't have any intention of blaspheming before this happened, and I regained composure just after, but I don't know if any of that makes it ok.
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K
kaykay9.0
Guest
I think it's all OCD, Navy. I understand that you think this "thinking" was more active or perhaps more than the previous. I think this incident probably just happened because of your obsession, not that you really have it your heart that you consent and believe these thoughts or ever really did. I still believe the old principle that pastors/counselors will say~ If you are worried about it, you haven't done it. I think the blasphemy that Jesus was referring to was a heart issue, not just a matter of a thought in your head or even perhaps something coming out of someone's mouth unintentionally. If your heart was hard towards God, I don't think you would be a bit concerned about it, later or at any other time. I don't think you would be able to repent or have any desire to do so. And yes, trying to analyze it is very common.
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I think you might be right about concern being a good sign.... I did say something out loud once... I had taken to turning any potentially bad thoughts about the Spirit into bad thoughts about Satan. I got so fed up with it that I decided to say something really bad about Satan out loud, but I accidentally said it about the Holy Spirit. I've pretty much gotten over that one because it was 100% an accident. I didn't even realize what I said till I had already said it and heard it coming off of my lips. It bothered me for a while because the NIT says that all careless words would be accounted for, but I read somewhere that the Greek word translated into "careless" is usually translated into "useless" or "fruitless", which I think is a big difference. Anyways, I know that in my heart I have not shifted into someone who hates God or wants to blaspheme Him. I don't think that a momentary action defines me either, but I guess I just don't know what the conditions are that make something blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, and the uncertainty makes me worry that what I did still might count. I kind of think that if time goes by, and I don't stop loving God, praying to Him, or serving Him, then I probably haven't lost Him.
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its actually comforting in a weird way to see and know im not the only one who goes through these types of things
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lifeknowingjesus
Christ's
Let me quote Billy Graham on this:
"Many Christians have heard that there is an unpardonable sin and live in dread that something grave they have done before or after conversion might be that sin.
"Their fears are unfounded. While there is an unforgivable sin, it is not one that a true believer in Jesus Christ can commit.
"The one sin which God cannot forgive is mentioned in Mark 3:28-30 and Matthew 12:31-32. Jesus had been performing miracles, including driving demons out of people by the power of the Holy Spirit. Instead of recognizing the source of Jesus' power and accepting Him as God's Son, the religious leaders accused Him of being possessed by the devil and driving demons out in the power of the devil.
"Jesus responded by saying, "I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."
"The sin of the religious leaders, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, was a refusal to accept the witness of the Holy Spirit to who Jesus was and what He had come to do, and then submit their lives to Him. Jesus said concerning the Holy Spirit, "When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment" (John 16:8). They chose rather to reject the Spirit's witness to their sin and to Jesus, and accused Him of being demon possessed!
"The point for us is that if we have received Jesus as our Savior and Lord, we have not blasphemed the Holy Spirit; we have accepted His witness. One study Bible explains it as follows: "To commit this sin one must consciously, persistently, deliberately, and maliciously reject the testimony of the Spirit to the deity and saving power of the Lord Jesus." If a person keeps doing that until death, there is no hope of forgiveness and eternal life in heaven.
"Once again, the unpardonable sin is not some particularly grievous sin committed by a Christian before or after accepting Christ, nor is it thinking or saying something terrible about the Holy Spirit. Rather, it is deliberately resisting the Holy Spirit's witness and invitation to turn to Jesus until death ends all opportunity.
"In order to experience God's peace, we must come to Him, trusting His promises. Isaiah 1:18 says, "Come now, let us reason together, says the Lord. Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow." In 1 John 1:9 we read: "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
"Jesus Himself assures us, "Whoever comes to me I will never drive away" (John 6:37). Our God is a compassionate and merciful God. He desires that no one should be lost, but that all should come to salvation through repentance and personal faith in Jesus as Savior and Lord (2 Peter 3:9; Acts 2:21)."
I also invite you to read this post: http://www.christianforums.com/t7476448/
Love,
Amy
"Many Christians have heard that there is an unpardonable sin and live in dread that something grave they have done before or after conversion might be that sin.
"Their fears are unfounded. While there is an unforgivable sin, it is not one that a true believer in Jesus Christ can commit.
"The one sin which God cannot forgive is mentioned in Mark 3:28-30 and Matthew 12:31-32. Jesus had been performing miracles, including driving demons out of people by the power of the Holy Spirit. Instead of recognizing the source of Jesus' power and accepting Him as God's Son, the religious leaders accused Him of being possessed by the devil and driving demons out in the power of the devil.
"Jesus responded by saying, "I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."
"The sin of the religious leaders, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, was a refusal to accept the witness of the Holy Spirit to who Jesus was and what He had come to do, and then submit their lives to Him. Jesus said concerning the Holy Spirit, "When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment" (John 16:8). They chose rather to reject the Spirit's witness to their sin and to Jesus, and accused Him of being demon possessed!
"The point for us is that if we have received Jesus as our Savior and Lord, we have not blasphemed the Holy Spirit; we have accepted His witness. One study Bible explains it as follows: "To commit this sin one must consciously, persistently, deliberately, and maliciously reject the testimony of the Spirit to the deity and saving power of the Lord Jesus." If a person keeps doing that until death, there is no hope of forgiveness and eternal life in heaven.
"Once again, the unpardonable sin is not some particularly grievous sin committed by a Christian before or after accepting Christ, nor is it thinking or saying something terrible about the Holy Spirit. Rather, it is deliberately resisting the Holy Spirit's witness and invitation to turn to Jesus until death ends all opportunity.
"In order to experience God's peace, we must come to Him, trusting His promises. Isaiah 1:18 says, "Come now, let us reason together, says the Lord. Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow." In 1 John 1:9 we read: "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
"Jesus Himself assures us, "Whoever comes to me I will never drive away" (John 6:37). Our God is a compassionate and merciful God. He desires that no one should be lost, but that all should come to salvation through repentance and personal faith in Jesus as Savior and Lord (2 Peter 3:9; Acts 2:21)."
I also invite you to read this post: http://www.christianforums.com/t7476448/
Love,
Amy
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