stop sinning?

[vanshan]

It is rare that someone sucessfully becomes sinless. In the Orthodox Church we call those people saints, if we have signs from God indicating their righteousness. Becoming sinless is not just a matter of faith or will -- some of our stuggles are only overcome by prayer and fasting, and even then is only through God's power, not our own.

We cannot discount what Christ achieved. In His death and resurrection he did conquer sin and death, making it a possiblity for us to overcome sin as well by His grace. We all have sinned, but we all can overcome sin if we follow Christ's commands. To say this is impossible is to call God a liar. Everything in scripture tells us we can overcome sin and the result of sin which is death.

Basil

 

[Ainesis]

After being on this forum for a few months, i've noticed that there seems to be differences of opinion on the topic of 'ceasing to sin'.

My question is simply: "Do you believe that through Christ one can completely stop sinning while here in the world"?

~peace~

Hi kel32,

Actually, many Scriptures talk about how we are not to sin and that those who are born of God cannot sin. We are told that without holiness and sanctification from the world (and of course sin), we will not see the Lord. We are also told that those who continue willfulling in sin after having been saved will be condemned.

So, in a nutshell, I do believe that this is not only possible, but is mandated in Scripture. However, I think that there is some confusion about what is considered sin and how we overcome it.

I answered the poll, but I think that is part of the problem. Man does not overcome sin through willpower or strength. man overcomes sin by crucifying the old nature. It is only as the old nature dies (we decrease) and the new nature fills us (He increases) that we can see this realized in our lives.

Also, there is a difference between making a mistake (sin) in ignorance versus making a willful choice to do wrong in direct rebellion against what we know to be the truth. If we find that we have committed wrong, God says that we have a mediator in Christ and that He is faithful to forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness once we repent. So willfull rebellion is different than ignorance. Only God knows the difference, by looking at our motivations and intents of our hearts.

As we proceed on this salvation walk, we should be growing in knowledge of Him and having the life of sin decreasing more and more. God desires to make us into the image of His Son, and in Him there is no darkness.

God Bless!

 

[kel32]

Vanshan and Ainesis,

Thank you for your wonderful posts...

The purpose of this thread was with the hope of enlightening some who believe that ceasing to sin is a 'pipe dream'; an impossiblity. If one's faith or belief lies contrary to God's truth, then this does become an 'impossiblilty'. But if one has faith in this truth, then it is indeed a possibility.

See how many times, in Romans, that Paul says "know ye not?". They were unaware of this truth.

As I stated in a prior post, If we expect to sin, thinking we have to sin, we will sin. But if we realize that we are dead with Christ since He died as us and we accepted that, then we will realize we are freed from sin. When we know that, we will truly apply that to our lives instead of expecting to sin.

~peace~

 

[nephilimiyr]

1 John 1:8-10, If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[kel32]

1 John 1:8-10, If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Neph,

I think we covered that a few posts back.

"No one who remains in him sins; no one who sins has seen him or known him. Children, let no one deceive you. The person who acts in righteousness is righteous, just as he is righteous. Whoever sins belongs to the devil, because the devil has sinned from the beginning. Indeed, the Son of God was revealed to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is begotten by God commits sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot sin because he is begotten by God." 1 John 3:6-9

(emphasis mine)

~peace~

 

[nephilimiyr]

Neph,

I think we covered that a few posts back.

"No one who remains in him sins; no one who sins has seen him or known him. Children, let no one deceive you. The person who acts in righteousness is righteous, just as he is righteous. Whoever sins belongs to the devil, because the devil has sinned from the beginning. Indeed, the Son of God was revealed to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is begotten by God commits sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot sin because he is begotten by God." 1 John 3:6-9

(emphasis mine)

~peace~

Actually I covered it with another poster, not you, and I believe that poster never proved his interpretation as bing correct and you don't either. From your explanation above you are not addressing the passages but are addressing different ones.

Now in 1 John 1:8 John is addressing those who walk in the Spirit, he is telling this to people who are believers. He says "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." He is talking to those who are already are walking in the Spirit. So if those who are already walking in the Spirit are deceiveing themselves by saying they have no sin then it stands to reason that in this life while walking in the Spirit we should never be saying that we are without sin.

 

[vanshan]

1 John 1:8-10, If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Neph, this scripture refers to anyone who might claim they have never sinned. That is indeed an impossibility. There is nothing in these verses that states that one cannot be freed from sin at some point in their life.

 

[ps139]

Neph, this scripture refers to anyone who might claim they have never sinned. That is indeed an impossibility. There is nothing in these verses that states that one cannot be freed from sin at some point in their life.

I actually think St. John may have reached this state. Just speculation, of course.

 

[Ainesis]

Hi all!

As I pondered this question once again, it dawned on me that Scripture says all things are possible through Christ. It doesn't say all things except for man to be free from sin.

I know that may seem rather silly, but I am curious why people would think that we cannot be free from sin? Let to our own devices and our own power, we certainly cannot be. But why would this be impossible for God?

Also, if Scripture says (in more than one instance) that we should be free from sin, then what does this mean exactly? Is this deliverance from the sin nature only theoretical? And why do you think it is?

Just thinking out loud!

 

[Yebo]

Greetings from a sunny South Africa

Hi all!

As I pondered this question once again, it dawned on me that Scripture says all things are possible through Christ. It doesn't say all things except for man to be free from sin.

All I can say to this is AMEN and AMEN !!!!!!!

Be BLESSED by the Best and stay within the confinements of PEACE

 

[kel32]

Hi all!

As I pondered this question once again, it dawned on me that Scripture says all things are possible through Christ. It doesn't say all things except for man to be free from sin.

Exactly...'all things'...not 'some things' or 'many things'.

I know that may seem rather silly, but I am curious why people would think that we cannot be free from sin? Let to our own devices and our own power, we certainly cannot be. But why would this be impossible for God?

I believe that there could be a few reasons why this is so. Possibly from being continually 'taught' that this is an impossibility. Paul says "my message and my proclamation were not with persuasive words of wisdom, but with a demonstration of spirit and power, so that your faith might rest not on human wisdom but on the power of God." 1 Corinthians 2:4-5

Our carnal minds may tell us that even though we are spirit-led 'new creations'; that our sin nature still has 'power' over our spiritual nature. This is our carnal minds 'playing tricks on us'. "...But we have the mind of Christ." 1 Cor. 2:16

Also, if Scripture says (in more than one instance) that we should be free from sin, then what does this mean exactly? Is this deliverance from the sin nature only theoretical? And why do you think it is?

No, it isn't 'theoretical'. It's God's truth. We are told that Christ has given us 'victory' over sin.

I found a great analogy...

Believers already have everything we will ever need for victorious living due to the blood of Christ shed on Calvary and due to God's work in that event. Its just that most believers do not know all that is theirs. It is like having one million dollars in the bank put there by a man of wealth. If one is unaware of that storehouse of wealth at one's disposal, one will not enjoy it by living life in accordance with such benefits. One will live lower than one actually has to. We do not have to live so low as to think we must sin throughout our entire lives. There is more victory for us than that. Since most of us never realized the Bible teaches this truth, we have never benefited from it, let alone believed it.

It all comes down to having faith in God that He has indeed given us the power over sin.

~peace~

 

[Ainesis]

Great food for thought Kel32! I would have to say that this is my understanding as well, and that most importantly it seems to be what Scripture says on it.

It is so easy to set our sights too low, but that only happens when we are looking on ourselves. We see our limitations, our weaknesses, our shortcomings... No wonder things seem rather dismal from that point of view.

But when we look at Him...Whoooooweeee! There are no limitations, only endless potential and boundless hope. I so love the Lord, not only because He saves me from myself, but He gives to me what I cannot provide for myself whether that is righteousness, mercy, love, grace, or freedom from sin.

Thanks for starting this thread. It has really got me thinkin' and boy do I feel like shoutin'! ;-)

 

[kel32]

But when we look at Him...Whoooooweeee! There are no limitations, only endless potential and boundless hope. I so love the Lord, not only because He saves me from myself, but He gives to me what I cannot provide for myself whether that is righteousness, mercy, love, grace, or freedom from sin.

"And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive." Matthew 21:22

Thanks for starting this thread. It has really got me thinkin' and boy do I feel like shoutin'! ;-)

Praise God!

~peace always~

 

[ChiRho]

Great food for thought Kel32! I would have to say that this is my understanding as well, and that most importantly it seems to be what Scripture says on it.

It is so easy to set our sights too low, but that only happens when we are looking on ourselves. We see our limitations, our weaknesses, our shortcomings... No wonder things seem rather dismal from that point of view.

But when we look at Him...Whoooooweeee! There are no limitations, only endless potential and boundless hope. I so love the Lord, not only because He saves me from myself, but He gives to me what I cannot provide for myself whether that is righteousness, mercy, love, grace, or freedom from sin.

Thanks for starting this thread. It has really got me thinkin' and boy do I feel like shoutin'! ;-)

Theology of Glory...this is saddening . Ofcourse it is from ourselves that we are Rescued! We can never be as repentant as we should. On our best days, we are still vile, rebellious God-haters. We pray rightly when we echo the words of our Christ...

Our Father,
Who art in heaven,
Hallowed be Thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come,
Thy Will be done,
On earth as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day,
our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses
as we forgive those
who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever and ever.

Amen.

...we are actually praying against our own will. To shift the focus from what Christ accomplished to the accomplishment of man and to speak of Christ as mere inspiration to enable one to speak, act, and think better, is to position oneself in hostile opposition to the Gospel.

1 John 1

8If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

 

[ChiRho]

I can't choose any of your topics. I don't have the power to stop sinning, and neither does anyone else. Now, through Christ all things are possible, but by His strength alone, not my own.

Amen.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

 

[Ainesis]

Theology of Glory...this is saddening . Ofcourse it is from ourselves that we are Rescued! We can never be as repentant as we should. On our best days, we are still vile, rebellious God-haters. We pray rightly when we echo the words of our Christ...

Our Father,
Who art in heaven,
Hallowed be Thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come,
Thy Will be done,
On earth as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day,
our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses
as we forgive those
who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever and ever.

Amen.

...we are actually praying against our own will. To shift the focus from what Christ accomplished to the accomplishment of man and to speak of Christ as mere inspiration to enable one to speak, act, and think better, is to position oneself in hostile opposition to the Gospel.

1 John 1

8If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I won't try to change that.

It is interesting that you state the focus should not be moved to man from Christ, but your comments center around what man is doing or cannot do.

Yet, I know that God is able to do abundently more than we can think or imagine. The Lord has commanded us to be free from sin and He has given us His Spirit which is the only power through which this can be done. If He says that He is faithful to finish the work He has started in me, then doggone it, I believe Him!

 

[ChiRho]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I won't try to change that.

ok.

It is interesting that you state the focus should not be moved to man from Christ, but your comments center around what man is doing or cannot do.

How so?

Yet, I know that God is able to do abundently more than we can think or imagine. The Lord has commanded us to be free from sin and He has given us His Spirit which is the only power through which this can be done.

How does He do this?

If He says that He is faithful to finish the work He has started in me, then doggone it, I believe Him!

It has been accomplished. It was accomplished in Christ. If you believe, then you are completely pardoned. While we will struggle with our sin in this mortal life, trust that you are forgiven and claimed by Christ.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

 

[Ainesis]

How so?

"We can never be as repentant as we should. On our best days, we are still vile, rebellious God-haters...."

Besides the fact that I do not agree with the above statement, the focus should not be on what man is or is not, but what God is. Our salvation rests in Him, not ourselves.

How does He do this?

How does God free us from sin? By giving us the power through His Spirit to crucify the old nature, and its lusts, which lead to sin.

It has been accomplished. It was accomplished in Christ. If you believe, then you are completely pardoned. While we will struggle with our sin in this mortal life, trust that you are forgiven and claimed by Christ.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

Not really. Even the demons believe, and they certainly are not saved. There are numerous commands that God gives us about what WE must do to be freed from sin.

If what you have described is your faith, and that is what you choose to believe then that is your right. If you can provide support for these assertions in Scripture, I am happy to listen. Otherwise, there is no point in talking past each othe. I respect your right to believe as you choose.

 

[ChiRho]

"We can never be as repentant as we should. On our best days, we are still vile, rebellious God-haters...."

Besides the fact that I do not agree with the above statement, the focus should not be on what man is or is not, but what God is. Our salvation rests in Him, not ourselves.


How does God free us from sin? By giving us the power through His Spirit to crucify the old nature, and its lusts, which lead to sin.


Not really. Even the demons believe, and they certainly are not saved. There are numerous commands that God gives us about what WE must do to be freed from sin.

If what you have described is your faith, and that is what you choose to believe then that is your right. If you can provide support for these assertions in Scripture, I am happy to listen. Otherwise, there is no point in talking past each othe. I respect your right to believe as you choose.

I have neither the time nor the energy to continue right now. If you desire to understand what I am talking about, go to the forum thread- Theologia Crucis: Confessional Lutherans.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

 

[Ainesis]

That's alright ChiRho, but thanks for the inivitation. I understand your comments. My objection was that they do not seem to be based on Scripture, but theology. The two are not always one and the same.

Be Blessed!