stop sinning?

[ChiRho]

That's alright ChiRho, but thanks for the inivitation. I understand your comments. My objection was that they do not seem to be based on Scripture, but theology. The two are not always one and the same.

Be Blessed!

Much harm is done when one blurs Law and Gospel. They are to be understood properly distinguished. See Book of Concord, Luther's Small Catechism, www.lcms.org, or Theologia Crucis- Confessional Lutherans. I do understand that theology built upon man falls and crumbles...that is not Lutheranism. In what man has deemed foolish, God has chosen to place Himself.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

 

[Ainesis]

Much harm is done when one blurs Law and Gospel. They are to be understood properly distinguished. See Book of Concord, Luther's Small Catechism, www.lcms.org, or Theologia Crucis- Confessional Lutherans. I do understand that theology built upon man falls and crumbles...that is not Lutheranism. In what man has deemed foolish, God has chosen to place Himself.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

Hi ChiRho,

You'll get no argument from me there!

But, I am really not much into theology or denominational positions. I stick just to the Word. Therefore, any "truth" for me would need to be found in there first and foremost. By the way, that is not a comment on the link you have provided above or about the Lutheran faith as a whole. Just some insight into how my perspective is formed.

'Til we chat again!

 

[Ainesis]

I was meditating on the following Scriptures and thought I would share them with you all. Regardless of what one believes about being free from sin, these are certainly good news for us all!

Be Blessed!

Mt 19:26But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Mr 9:23Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

Mr 10:27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

Mr 14:36And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

Lu 18:27 And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.

Yippeeeee!!!!!!!!

 

[ChiRho]

I think we must define impossible.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

 

[Ainesis]

I think we must define impossible.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

Okay. Sounds like a good idea. Do you want to start with strong's? It has the following:

Adunateo
impossible
not to have strength, power, or ability, to be weak; can not be done, to be impossible

Adunatos
without strength, impotent, powerless, weakly, disabled; unable to be done, impossible

Anendektos
that cannot be admitted, inadmissible, unallowable, improper
By the way, the above is not one of the words used in the quoted Scriptures, but...

 

[Ainesis]

BTW, my understanding if we apply these definitions of impossible to the Scriptures above, indicates that anything man does not have the strength to do, or has no power to do, or is to weak to do, or is not able to do...God can do, if we believe.

What are your thoughts?

 

[ydouxist]

I believe Kels point in starting this thread was a call to holiness.
Yes all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
But where does it say all will continue to sin?

1 Peter 1
14As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy."

 

[nephilimiyr]

I believe Kels point in starting this thread was a call to holiness.

I understand that also but no one is argueing with him about the Bible saying we are to live holy lives.

1 Peter 1
14As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy."

What I see being conveyed in these passages is that we are not to live our lives conformed to the world. We are to repent of our sins and not committ them again. When we do so Peter does not say that we will be 100% successful in our endevor. He is telling us that this is the mind set we are supposed to have. I don't believe his message has anything to do with us being able to live sin free if we live holy lives but that that is the way we are suppose to live.

Throughout this thread I have not been trying to make the case that it is impossible to stop a sin, committing adultery for instance but that after the person, through the help of the Lord, wins victory over this sin another can and will crop up. It may be a long time afterward and it maybe as simple as saying an unkind word to someone, it maybe the person begins to harbor a wrong that was committed against them by another person. ydouxist you may call this unintentional but the way I see it it is sin none the less. This maybe what John talked about in 1 John 5:16 when he talked about "sin not unto death", reguardless it still is sin.

The evil ones, the principalities and the rulers of the darkness don't stop with their attempts to influence people to sin. Yes, God gives us victory over sin and he does answer our prayers concerning these sins and is faithful to forgive us if we ask for forgiveness and repent. Yet as Jesus said about the evil spirits, once one is forced from a house they travel around the country but do come back with not only themselves but with a whole host of their friends and each one with his own expertise.

Now do we give up like Paul had asked? His answer was no, we use the Lord living in us to combat them, to combat sin also. Paul told us to put on the armour of God to fight back.

Can an alcoholic win victory over this sin? You bet, everytime through Christ!
Can an adulterer win victory over this sin? You bet, everytime through Christ!
Can a compulsive liar win victory over this sin? You bet, everytime through Christ!
Can someone who hates his fellow man win victory over this sin? With the Lords help he can!
Anytime anyone goes to the Lord with a condition of sin and asks God to deliver them the Lord will be faithful to him who is faithful to Him. How do we show we're faithful to Him? We walk in the light. We live by the Spirit.


neph

 

[JVAC]

I think we must define impossible.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

-James

 

[nephilimiyr]

I actually think St. John may have reached this state. Just speculation, of course.

I believe in exceptions to almost every rule. It is also speculated that Enoch and Elijah reached this state also since it's believed they have been raptured up.

 

[Yebo]

I think we must define impossible.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

Greetings from a sunny South Africa

Can impossible not mean "I am possible"? If so then everything is impossible 'cause I - true to my nature - will try and do everything, resulting in a massive failure.

Rather spell it HIMpossible.

Be BLESSED by the BEST and stay within the confinements of PEACE

 

[kel32]

The evil ones, the principalities and the rulers of the darkness don't stop with their attempts to influence people to sin. Yes, God gives us victory over sin and he does answer our prayers concerning these sins and is faithful to forgive us if we ask for forgiveness and repent. Yet as Jesus said about the evil spirits, once one is forced from a house they travel around the country but do come back with not only themselves but with a whole host of their friends and each one with his own expertise.

Now do we give up like Paul had asked? His answer was no, we use the Lord living in us to combat them, to combat sin also. Paul told us to put on the armour of God to fight back.

Neph,

So, are you saying that the armor of God is not strong enough to hold off the 'evil ones'?

"Blessed is the man who perseveres in temptation, for when he has been proved he will receive the crown of life that he promised to those who love him. No one experiencing temptation should say, "I am being tempted by God"; for God is not subject to temptation to evil, and he himself tempts no one. Rather, each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire conceives and brings forth sin, and when sin reaches maturity it gives birth to death." James 1:12-15

James tells us it is our own 'desires' that lead us to sin.

So, what does Paul tell us of our own 'desires'?

"Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified their flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also follow the Spirit." Galatians 5:24-25

~peace~

 

[nephilimiyr]

Neph,

So, are you saying that the armor of God is not strong enough to hold off the 'evil ones'?

Yes and more than strong enough but as I have already said in this thread we don't always use the armour of God. When we don't use the armor of God we leave ourselves open to temptation with no help from God, no shield, no breastplate, no sword, and no helmet to guard ourselves. Why do you feel the need to accuse me of saying God's power isn't strong enough? That's miles away from what I said, I mean it's not even close.

"Blessed is the man who perseveres in temptation, for when he has been proved he will receive the crown of life that he promised to those who love him. No one experiencing temptation should say, "I am being tempted by God"; for God is not subject to temptation to evil, and he himself tempts no one. Rather, each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire conceives and brings forth sin, and when sin reaches maturity it gives birth to death." James 1:12-15

James tells us it is our own 'desires' that lead us to sin.

I agree

So, what does Paul tell us of our own 'desires'?

"Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified their flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also follow the Spirit." Galatians 5:24-25

~peace~

Galatians 5:24, And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Just exactly what have we crucified?

The Greek word for affections used in the passage Paul wrote is "Pathema". It means an enduring, undergoing, suffering, affiction, calamity.

The Greek word for lust used in the passage Paul wrote is "Epithumia". It means a desire, craving, longing, desire for what is forbidden, lust.

Reference: www.crosswalk.com

What we have crucified is our longing to serve the flesh, the cravings to do so and the desire to do so at all times. This is alittle different then what I think your saying Paul is talking about.

 

[kel32]

Yes and more than strong enough but as I have already said in this thread we don't always use the armour of God. When we don't use the armor of God we leave ourselves open to temptation with no help from God, no shield, no breastplate, no sword, and no helmet to guard ourselves. Why do you feel the need to accuse me of saying God's power isn't strong enough? That's miles away from what I said, I mean it's not even close. .

Are you saying we 'don't' always use the 'armor of God', or we 'can't' always use the armor of God? If you are saying we 'can't always', i'd like to see the scriptural basis for your assertion...

http://www.crosswalk.com/

What we have crucified is our longing to serve the flesh, the cravings to do so and the desire to do so at all times. This is alittle different then what I think your saying Paul is talking about.

This is exactly what i'm saying that Paul is talking about.

Why do you continue to be so adamantly opposed to the freedom that God has given us?

Just wondering...

~peace~

 

[ChiRho]

kel32

Are you saying we 'don't' always use the 'armor of God', or we 'can't' always use the armor of God? If you are saying we 'can't always', i'd like to see the scriptural basis for your assertion...

I am asserting that we dont use the armor of God as we should. Your understanding of Free-Will seems a little self-glorifying. Also, your distinction between Law and Gospel seems to be blurry.


Why do you continue to be so adamantly opposed to the freedom that God has given us?

He has freed us from our much deserved torture and aganozing eternal death. That is freedom. The freedom you describe is fantasical and untrue. You do not keep the commandments as you would like to appear. No one does...especially me! This phony non-sense about some sins are "unintentional" or "I am just being tempted by that cute girl's figure, I am not willfully acting on it," is pure rubbish and sinful. I am getting tired of hearing "by the POWER of God I have overcome these sins..." It is a false reality. Our trust is that He loves us even when we hate Him....which is always! Christ died for God-haters is not easy medicine to digest, but it is the only truth we can cling to. When we are honest we must admit that we come nowhere close to being any better, infact the more we analyze our selves honestly, the worse we become. What is the point of consuming one's time with vain attempts to recount how better we have become? No matter how much one may sin less, one is never any less sinful. Believe that and repent...and trust your God that He forgives you...that is the demonstration of impossible that everyone likes to misuse. Accomplishing the impossible is not about earthly or temeral things...not about you conquering the urge to lust for your best friend's girl, God accomplishing the impossible is His ability to save a wretched group of people such as us (Christians). Quit viewing the church as a group of virtuous believers and know that the true Church is a group of sinners...forgiven, but still nasty sinners!

Praise be to Christ, He, my Lord, my God that was hung upon a tree for the Redemption of mankind, and for the forgiveness of my sins!

Pax Christi,

ChiRho



Just wondering...

~peace~

 

[nephilimiyr]

Are you saying we 'don't' always use the 'armor of God', or we 'can't' always use the armor of God? If you are saying we 'can't always', i'd like to see the scriptural basis for your assertion...

No I most certainly am not saying we can't always. I'm saying that we don't always use it. There's many reasons for why we don't always use it but it has nothing to do with whether we can or can't.

This is exactly what i'm saying that Paul is talking about.

Why do you continue to be so adamantly opposed to the freedom that God has given us?

Just wondering...

I say I see this alittle different from what I see you saying because I believe there's a difference in longing to serve the flesh as a practise and committing an act of serveing the flesh.

I'm not opposed at all to the freedom God has given us. I don't however believe God has created us as zoombies. Yes when we accept him into our lives he lives in us but we have to learn to listen to him and obey him. He doesn't come into our lives by pushing us aside, makeing all the decissions and pushing all the bottons. He allows us to make our own decissions even when they are the wrong ones that go against his will and righteousness. In a way I see you saying that as soon as we accept him in we will miraculously be without sin forever as if it's like drinking some kind of magical potion.

All of the scriptures you and others here have presented to me doesn't really support what your saying. I see those scriptures as mearly showing us what the difference is between living for the flesh and living according to the Spirit. Those scriptures tell us that we are to chose in which way we are to live. There are two possible avenues for us to take in life. We can only chose one of them. If we chose to live according to the Spirit rather than the flesh we will be rewarded with everlasting life. However none of those scriptures say we wont make the wrong decissions from time to time. In fact they say that when we do sin we have an advocate in Jesus Christ if we confess those sins and repent.
In short those scriptures say that by living in the Spirit we will not sin and they also say that this is the way we are suppose to live but where is it addressed that we will always be able to live by the Spirit at all times, 24/7. This isn't saying God's power is deminished. This is saying God has given us the freedom and liberty to make our own decissions, let's us decide whether we live by the Spirit or not. On whether we use his power that is able to concur anything and everything!


neph

 

[SavedByGrace3]

It is sad to see such a large percentage of responders who are unaware of what God accomplished in the new birth and what they are able to accomplish now in this life.
They effectively have surrendered to the flesh and are giving it power that they can overcome...
Sad

 

[nephilimiyr]

It is sad to see such a large percentage of responders who are unaware of what God accomplished in the new birth and what they are able to accomplish now in this life.
They effectively have surrendered to the flesh and are giving it power that they can overcome...
Sad

You couldn't be more wrong then what you are. We know what Jesus Christ accomplished and we do have enough understanding of the power that was involved and that it is able to concur over anything and everything. We also have an understanding of ourselves and know that it is up to us on whether we live by the Spirit or by the flesh, God was gracious enough to give us that freedom to decide. That decission has to be made and put into practise everyday, 24/7.

You didaskalos have bore false witness against us. How on earth would you know who or what we have surrendered ourselves to? It is written that the way you have judged us is also the way Jesus will judge you. I pray that you recant your words for your sake!

God Bless

neph

 

[kel32]

It is sad to see such a large percentage of responders who are unaware of what God accomplished in the new birth and what they are able to accomplish now in this life.
They effectively have surrendered to the flesh and are giving it power that they can overcome...
Sad

Agreed, Diddy...sad

And you hit the nail right on the head - there are many that are 'unaware' of the victory God has indeed blessed us with. As I said in a previous post, one's faith lies in what you believe. If you 'believe' that God can't lead us to a life of ceasing to sin, then one will never accomplish it. But if one has complete faith in the Glorious work of God, then one can have victory over sin in ALL they do...Die with Christ and you can live with him...

God Bless...

~peace~

 

[kel32]

Why do you continue to be so adamantly opposed to the freedom that God has given us?

On the contrary, Chirho. I embrace the freedom that God has given me...

I am getting tired of hearing "by the POWER of God I have overcome these sins..." It is a false reality.

~peace~