State of Israel

[Grip Docility]

I'm not sure where are going with that GD...

Basically, Romans 11 reads as a warning that as the Jews once loathed the Gentiles, the Gentiles mustn’t loath the Jews.

Just as the Jews thought Gentiles had little to no hope, the Gentiles mustn’t do the same.

It ends exalting the richness of Gods mercy.

 

[Inkfingers]

Basically, Romans 11 reads as a warning that as the Jews once loathed the Gentiles, the Gentiles mustn’t loath the Jews.

Just as the Jews thought Gentiles had little to no hope, the Gentiles mustn’t do the same.

It ends exalting the richness of Gods mercy.

Ah, I read that as a warning not to pay any heed to race because such is irrelevant to salvation.

 

[Randy777]

Does it mean anything, End Times related, that the modern State of Israel was created by the UN (a global empire resting on many waters/people) through Resolution 181, and that the UN claim ownership of Jerusalem?

The world and all that is in it belongs to the Father. And all that belongs to the Father also belongs to the Son. The gathering will be from the ends of the heavens by the Son on the last day. Flesh and blood can't inherit the eternal kingdom God promised to those that loved Him. A kingdom that can never be destroyed ruled by a faithful High Priest who was appointed to the line of David.
Gods promise He swore to David is fulfilled in Jesus.

And I will appoint him to be my firstborn,
the most exalted of the kings of the earth.
28 I will maintain my love to him forever,
and my covenant with him will never fail.
29 I will establish his line forever,
his throne as long as the heavens endure.

 

[Inkfingers]

I'm also wondering whom the 'Palestinians' would be, in End Time language, if the modern State of Israel is a counterfeit of God's Israel (as is seen in its secular nature) made by a body (the UN) who could be seen as the "first beast" that sits on many nations...

 

[Grip Docility]

Ah, I read that as a warning not to pay any heed to race because such is irrelevant to salvation.

Fair. I can see that reading, too. You’ve figured my bias out, but I respect your position.

 

[Grip Docility]

I'm also wondering whom the 'Palestinians' would be, in End Time language, if the modern State of Israel is a counterfeit of God's Israel (as is seen in its secular nature) made by a body (the UN) who could be seen as the "first beast" that sits on many nations...

They correspond to a false land claim, and ancestral claim, in my opinion.

Turkey is where that seat of Satan is mentioned, in literal geographic correlation.

 

[Inkfingers]

They correspond to a false land claim, and ancestral claim, in my opinion.

I'm just wondering if they may be part of some other group (like the "kings of the east" and such like but I don't know for certain).

Turkey is where that seat of Satan is mentioned, in literal geographic correlation.

Yup, Pergamon.

 

[Grip Docility]

I'm also wondering whom the 'Palestinians' would be, in End Time language, if the modern State of Israel is a counterfeit of God's Israel (as is seen in its secular nature) made by a body (the UN) who could be seen as the "first beast" that sits on many nations...

I’ll add this, I personally, believe Israel is real due to much scripture pointing to it being brought back by God and Zechariah 14 coupled with Joel 3 really bring it home.

Israel has been lorded over by:

Egypt
Assyria
Babylon
Persia
Greece
Rome
Ottomans
And now, just as the UN has majority Islamic (united league of Arabs) infiltration, it (Jerusalem) is fully biblical with Jerusalem being its capitol.

The whole US embassy thing is a mystery to me. I don’t try to figure out stuff like that one bit.

Israel is looking to the US for protection, but as always, God desires Israel to look to Him.

It seems like the same Israel, having the same struggles and the same divine protection as before.

Nothing earthly is perfect, but God’s ultimate desire is. The gathering of Nations against Israel seems more and more realistic as time goes forward.

 

[Inkfingers]

I’ll add this, I personally, believe Israel is real due to much scripture pointing to it being brought back by God and Zechariah 14 coupled with Joel 3 really bring it home.

Israel has been lorded over by:

Egypt
Assyria
Babylon
Persia
Greece
Rome
Ottomans
And now, just as the UN has majority Islamic (united league of Arabs) infiltration, it (Jerusalem) is fully biblical with Jerusalem being its capitol.

The whole US embassy thing is a mystery to me. I don’t try to figure out stuff like that one bit.

Israel is looking to the US for protection, but as always, God desires Israel to look to Him.

It seems like the same Israel, having the same struggles and the same divine protection as before.

Nothing earthly is perfect, but God’s ultimate desire is. The gathering of Nations against Israel seems more and more realistic as time goes forward.

It's tricky to say, especially when there is the possibility of the "Ezekiel 38 War" but I just find it odd that Israel was brought back through a global humanistic empire (Babel 2.0) that sits on many peoples and nations, which claims ownership of Jerusalem, and then once it had brought Israel back began to turn against it.

 

[Davy]

You forgot Zechariah 14, Joel 3 and what Jesus said, after the verse you quoted.

“Matthew 23:39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

Any reason for that?

Why do some have a hard time with that verse too?

It's Psalms 118 and Zechariah 12 that's applicable to the timing of that Matt.23:29 verse. Jesus was quoting directly from Psalms 118:26 with "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord":

Ps 118:21-26
21 I will praise thee: for thou hast heard me, and art become my salvation.

22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.

23 This is the LORD's doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.

24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.

25 Save now, I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.

26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.
KJV

Matt.23:29 is about the day when the blinded Jews will recognize Jesus of Nazareth as The Messiah (The Christ). That is what Zechariah 12:10 is about. That is when they shall repeat that, "Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord" from the Psalms.

 

[Grip Docility]

It's tricky to say, especially when there is the possibility of the "Ezekiel 38 War" but I just find it odd that Israel was brought back through a global humanistic empire (Babel 2.0) that sits on many peoples and nations, which claims ownership of Jerusalem, and then once it had brought Israel back began to turn against it.

You have an open mind about it, and that is the best posture. I’m taking notes for my own purposes. All respect to you, In Him.

 

[Davy]

All three faiths, Christianity, Judaism and Islam hinge on Abraham.

Actually they do not.

Judaism only came about during and after the Babylon captivity as a corruption of what they had followed from Moses before. Judaism established their doctrines on the sage writings that became the Babylonian Talmud, a work of their own traditions which they put before the Torah (Books by Moses) and the prophets. This is why Jesus rebuked them, because of their traditions having made The Word of God of no effect (Mark 7:8-13).

Islam hinges on what Mohamed claimed, not on Abraham. Before Mohamed came, many of the Arab peoples were following idol worship of false gods, Molech, Chemosh, and the like. Mohamed simply co-joined his claimed revelations with a new twist of worship of those old gods. To this day, Chemosh worship by Muslims continues, as the Muslim is required to make a pilgrimage once in their lifetime to Mecca and march around the Mecca stone while citing verse out of the Koran. The Mecca stone is a black stone, which was also the symbol of old Chemosh worship (see... https://www.bible-history.com/faussets/C/Chemosh/). Molech was the fire-god of the children of Ammon. He required human sacrifices, which have continued in radical Islam with the practice of suicide in jihad. The only connection between Abraham and Islam is that Ishmael, the father of the Arab peoples, was a son of Abraham and Hagar, and his family is jealous of the children of Abraham and Sarah, thinking Israel stole their birthright from God.

The connection with Abraham and Christianity is unique and isolated from Judaism and Islam. The Faith which Abraham had, and God accounted to Abraham as righteousness, is the same Faith on The Gospel of Jesus Christ which all Christians have believed. Apostle Paul showed this in Galatians 3, and even proclaimed those of Faith have become the children of Abraham. The promise by Faith God gave Abraham is The Gospel of Jesus Christ. Neither Judaism nor Islam accepts that Faith.

 

[Inkfingers]

Judaism established their doctrines on the sage writings that became the Babylonian Talmud, a work of their own traditions which they put before the Torah (Books by Moses) and the prophets. This is why Jesus rebuked them, because of their traditions having made The Word of God of no effect (Mark 7:8-13).

Also interesting on that point is that (as far as I am aware) the 2nd Temple had no Ark of the Covenant, and thus it is quite probable that Yehovah ever dwelt in the new temple...

 

[Grip Docility]

Actually they do not.

Judaism only came about during and after the Babylon captivity as a corruption of what they had followed from Moses before. Judaism established their doctrines on the sage writings that became the Babylonian Talmud, a work of their own traditions which they put before the Torah (Books by Moses) and the prophets. This is why Jesus rebuked them, because of their traditions having made The Word of God of no effect (Mark 7:8-13).

Islam hinges on what Mohamed claimed, not on Abraham. Before Mohamed came, many of the Arab peoples were following idol worship of false gods, Molech, Chemosh, and the like. Mohamed simply co-joined his claimed revelations with a new twist of worship of those old gods. To this day, Chemosh worship by Muslims continues, as the Muslim is required to make a pilgrimage once in their lifetime to Mecca and march around the Mecca stone while citing verse out of the Koran. The Mecca stone is a black stone, which was also the symbol of old Chemosh worship (see... https://www.bible-history.com/faussets/C/Chemosh/). Molech was the fire-god of the children of Ammon. He required human sacrifices, which have continued in radical Islam with the practice of suicide in jihad. The only connection between Abraham and Islam is that Ishmael, the father of the Arab peoples, was a son of Abraham and Hagar, and his family is jealous of the children of Abraham and Sarah, thinking Israel stole their birthright from God.

The connection with Abraham and Christianity is unique and isolated from Judaism and Islam. The Faith which Abraham had, and God accounted to Abraham as righteousness, is the same Faith on The Gospel of Jesus Christ which all Christians have believed. Apostle Paul showed this in Galatians 3, and even proclaimed those of Faith have become the children of Abraham. The promise by Faith God gave Abraham is The Gospel of Jesus Christ. Neither Judaism nor Islam accepts that Faith.

No Abraham, no Father of faith for Christianity.

No Abraham, No Isaac, No Jacob, No Israel

No Abraham, No Ishmael, No Waring Tribes, No Islam

That can be found in extrabiblical, vanilla history.

But, throw the Bible into the mix and that Donkey of a man rising up against his brothers becomes apparent.

Surely you’ve seen his descendants in the news lately?

 

[Davy]

No Abraham, no Father of faith for Christianity.

No Abraham, No Isaac, No Jacob, No Israel

No Abraham, No Ishmael, No Waring Tribes, No Islam

You may want to study Galatians 3 if you haven't. Also see the end of John 8 when Jesus said Abraham saw His day, and was glad.

The OT saints knew about The Gospel of Jesus Christ. They just didn't get to live to see it fulfilled by Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection. David was given to prophesy of Christ's crucifixion in Psalms 22, and Isaiah in Isaiah 53. And those of us in Christ are on the other end of that Faith because we didn't live in the time when Jesus died on the cross and resurrected either, yet we have believed also as they.

 

[Grip Docility]

You may want to study Galatians 3 if you haven't. Also see the end of John 8 when Jesus said Abraham saw His day, and was glad.

The OT saints knew about The Gospel of Jesus Christ. They just didn't get to live to see it fulfilled by Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection. David was given to prophesy of Christ's crucifixion in Psalms 22, and Isaiah in Isaiah 53. And those of us in Christ are on the other end of that Faith because we didn't live in the time when Jesus died on the cross and resurrected either, yet we have believed also as they.

No Abraham, no Father of faith for Christianity.

No Abraham, No Isaac, No Jacob, No Israel

No Abraham, No Ishmael, No Waring Tribes, No Islam

That can be found in extrabiblical, vanilla history.

But, throw the Bible into the mix and that Donkey of a man rising up against his brothers becomes apparent.

Surely you’ve seen his descendants in the news lately?

Certainly,

But genetically speaking, can you disagree with what I wrote?

Ishmael is the ancestor of Islam. They admit this and have it in their Hadith. It’s also 100% verifiable through Scriptural geography.

God had a plan and Abraham attempted to make it happen in the wrong way. Ishmael is the result. Islam is a world religion that desire Theocratic domination through a false Pegan God. It’s a hard one to dismiss as not in scripture. (Cough, Cough, Saints Beheaded by the beast)

Jacob is the son of Isaac

We (Christians) are all adopted into the fold of Abrahamic faith, through Jesus Christ.

 

[Grip Docility]

Keep in mind, genetics have some value. Just ask Onan. He interfered with the lineage of Jesus and that didn’t work out well for him.

 

[Davy]

Certainly,

But genetically speaking, can you disagree with what I wrote?

Ishmael is the ancestor of Islam. They admit this and have it in their Hadith.

Jacob is the son of Isaac

We are all adopted into the fold of Abrahamic faith, through Jesus Christ.

It's not about genetics, as you will eventually discover. Because anyone of any peoples can believe on Jesus Christ The Savior and be counted as a child of Abraham, it means His salvation is not according to blood, but according to one's Faith.

One of the things many brethren do not understand, is that The Gospel begins in Genesis and flows all the way through the Old Testament Books to the New Testament when Jesus came to fulfill it. Abraham knew:

John 8:56-58
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto Him, "Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast Thou seen Abraham?"
58 Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."
KJV

By that Jesus pointed to Abraham having known about The Gospel. By Jesus saying Abraham was glad about it, shows Abraham believed it. Now when going back to Genesis and reading about God's promises to Abraham, with Abraham believing God and God then accounting it to Abraham as righteousness, it means The Gospel of Jesus Christ MUST be included in those promises that Abraham had faith that God would accomplish. And since God gave Abraham that 430 years prior... to the giving of the law, it means the Promise by Faith (The Gospel) was first, before the law. And that Promise by Faith is what Christ's Church has believed on unto eternal salvation.

Gal 3:6-14
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
KJV

 

[Grip Docility]

It's not about genetics, as you will eventually discover. Because anyone of any peoples can believe on Jesus Christ The Savior and be counted as a child of Abraham, it means His salvation is not according to blood, but according to one's Faith.

One of the things many brethren do not understand, is that The Gospel begins in Genesis and flows all the way through the Old Testament Books to the New Testament when Jesus came to fulfill it. Abraham knew:

John 8:56-58
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto Him, "Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast Thou seen Abraham?"
58 Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."
KJV

By that Jesus pointed to Abraham having known about The Gospel. By Jesus saying Abraham was glad about it, shows Abraham believed it. Now when going back to Genesis and reading about God's promises to Abraham, with Abraham believing God and God then accounting it to Abraham as righteousness, it means The Gospel of Jesus Christ MUST be included in those promises that Abraham had faith that God would accomplish. And since God gave Abraham that 430 years prior... to the giving of the law, it means the Promise by Faith (The Gospel) was first, before the law. And that Promise by Faith is what Christ's Church has believed on unto eternal salvation.

Gal 3:6-14
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
KJV

For Christians, it’s not.

But for Jews and Islam (Jacob and Ishmael) it is.

You’re side stepping the point I’m validly making by focusing on the Christian Covenant.

There’s more in scripture about everything than just Christianity.

Christians aren’t the Beast.

Jews are looked out for by God. Zechariah 14, Acts 1, Joel 3.

Revelation even specifies the Jews in a symbolic multiple of 12.

Come on now. Evidence presented.

 

[Davy]

Keep in mind, genetics have some value. Just ask Onan. He interfered with the lineage of Jesus and that didn’t work out well for him.

The purpose for God choosing a specific lineage for The Gospel was that Christ would be born through that lineage for all, and for that lineage to be the keepers of The Gospel for all peoples. That is God's meaning of a nation of priests. It doesn't mean to become a snob in thinking one is special and over a bunch of cattle (Goyim like the Talmudic Jews think of Gentiles), it's about being Christ's servants and ambassadors to all nations.

God had a much larger plan going on when He scattered the ten tribes of Israel and the majority of the house of Judah among the Gentiles. He then sent His disciples to them to preach The Gospel which Abraham was first given, which was then passed down to Isaac, and then to Jacob, and then to Joseph, and then to Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh where it remained to this day, among the western Christian nations.

A good majority of those nations under Christ were made up of bloodline Israelites, and still are, and the Jews only make up the smaller portion of them. Those with believing Gentiles today make up the majority of today's Christian Church in the west. Apostle Paul knew it, as he even quoted from the end of Hosea 1 to Roman Gentiles which points to God accepting a people along with Ephraim who were not a people. Afterall, the prophecy to Jacob and Ephraim was that their seed would become "a company of nations", and "a multitude of nations" (Gen.35 & 48).