State of Israel

[BABerean2]

Sadly in forums especially there are people who are very rigid and inflexible in their view-
I did not mean ideology in a manner of something that is taught - rather in a manner like unto the Jews in ancient Israel that studied the scriptures and were looking for their messiah to come - but disregarded the many scriptures that gave them details on how to identify the messiah when he came -

More than 300+ very specific detailed scriptures that described the place where the messiah would come , his birth , his life, his death , his resurrection , how he would be put to death , but even though the scriptures were there and they studied the scriptures - they disregarded the prophecies in favor of what they preferred to believe which resulted in:->

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

They did not receive Him because they were looking for him to come in Power and glory and not as a lamb to be sacrificed -

So even though they read the scriptures they were blinded by their preference in how they chose to interpret the scripture .
Some people today have the same type of mindset where they prefer to focus on a couple of scriptures and disregard other prophetic scriptures and insist that all of the church is Israel -

When biblical scripture does in fact make a distinct reference to people called Israel that do not accept Jesus as Messiah - and are not part of the church but God calls them Israel and people disregard that -
Resulting in the same type of blindness as ancient Israel had.

When people exclusively focus attention on scripture that applies to ONLY that which they prefer - is why they do not understand the distinct difference God points out regarding who Israel is in a specific context !; that people who Choose to disregard the total of the scripture in the Holy Bible - resulting in a blindness that cause them to reject Israel as a nation and reject Israel as the place on earth .

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.


as 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

.

 

[Grip Docility]

To ignore or disagree that Israel as a nation is prophetic - To ignore or disagree that Israel as a nation having a temple built is prophetic
To ignore or disagree that Israel is not all people from everywhere -is going by what men teach that is not scriptural based, just as saying that Jesus will return , it will as in the future but not happened yet - Jeremiah 31 has not yet happened but will in the future - some are proclaiming it has already happened

That is the woes of good old Preterism in all of its various levels.

 

[Grip Docility]

It's also interesting that we actually get saved by being made into figurative stones in the construction of the new Temple (the Body of Christ).

This is a wise statement because it binds to scripture and both sides of this debate.

I will merely offer this interesting point.

If Thessalonians has Jesus calling the final numbers that are surviving the horrors of the man of Sin, up to Himself, and Revelation has a great multitude gathered with Christ to descend upon the earth for “A feast”.

Who is Jesus headed towards (Zechariah 14, Joel 3 and Acts 1) and why is He headed for His bride, when we are already flesh of His flesh by spiritual union into that Temple?

Where is the Head and Body headed?

Why are they headed there?

 

[Grip Docility]

Well its not a bloodline that defines such (Matthew 3:9)

That defines who is a brother or sister of Christ. Nothing else matters.

Who is Christ? An Hebrew. In fact, He Is The Hebrew - before Hebrews were.


This was the qualification for Christ's brother or sister when He was told about His blood brother and blood mother. In other words blood, culture and all that other man-made stuff is inconsequential when it comes to what matters: the qualification to be a Son of the Most High God, and a brother or sister of Christ.

Yet Romans 11 specifically mentions (enemy of the Gospel Jews) and goes in to specify hope for them and a warning to not be arrogant towards them.

What do you make of this?

 

[Grip Docility]

I think we have a semantic difference that is creating confusion. Yes, all three religions point to Abraham for the justification of their faith. Jesus said to the Pharisees,

Joh_8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
Joh_8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Joh_8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

Mat_3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Joh_8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Judaism rejects Jesus not only as the Messiah, but persecutes any Jew that embraces Christ. Islam calls Jesus a prophet but rejects Him as God.

Paul said,
Gal_3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Gal_3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal_3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

To say that there are three great Abrahamic faiths is a mantra often repeated. And, as I said, it is a difference in semantics. What is meant is that three religions have come out of the descendants of Abraham. Of course as a Christian, I have never been a genetic descendant of Abraham, but I am a spiritual descendant. And in that sense, of which Jesus and Paul meant, neither the Jew who remains in Judaism nor the Muslim in Islam are spiritual descendants, for they do not have the faith of the man Abraham who believed in Jesus (John 8:56) before Jesus incarnated. Only Christians are spiritual descendants of Abraham.

Indeed, Spiritual descendants through adoption.

Now, what of Ishmaels people and their place and what of the Romans 11 (enemy of the gospel Jews) that are favored for their ancestors and might possibly be ressurected to say (Blessed is He Who comes in the name of the Lord)?

Revelation does empty the store house of death, after all.

The great white throne of judgment corresponds to Joel 3 and Zechariah 14 in an intense way. Why?

 

[Grip Docility]

It couldn't be today..Paul said that day will not come unless the great falling away happens and the man of sin is revealed. That would also seem to indicate the temple would need to be rebuilt.

The temple being built, or is built. 2 temples preside on the Temple Mount, currently.

Obviously, no good comes of this, but it is insinuated on some level, in scripture.

There is a third possibility that a false Jesus (Jesus being the True Temple Of God), will manifest. “Prophet Isa” is an interesting name to google.

 

[Grip Docility]

Paul was not talking about the "regrafting" of National Israel at all. So the question is when God will bring the Jews back to Him? He already has brought a remnant, as the Apostle Paul so clearly said when He "rhetorically asked:"

Romans 11:1

• "I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin."

The answer is no, God Forbid, He has not cast off His people as Paul declares himself an example of that fact. But all Israel shall be "defined" by God and not man. Note that Paul says that he is living proof that God has not cast away His people. What the Dispensationalists fail to understand is that:

Romans 9:6

• "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
• Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called."

Those whom God defines as Israel God will draw to Christ, and those whom God defines as Jews God will draw to Him. The rest, including national Israel, will die in unbelief just like the vast majority of Gentiles. There is no difference.

Remember that the blindness in part is happening to Israel which means that God does not prevent all Jews from being saved which we already knew there are many Jews become saved in the New Testament period, along with the Gentiles. Once the Gentiles be coming in, EVEN SO, all Israel shall be saved. That is it. There won't be a future "national redemption" or "regrafting" of a nation in the Middle East.

Yet Romans 11:13-32 Paul distinguishes that he is talking to (Gentiles) and an interesting use of (Enemy of the Gospel Jews) is brought forward.

How do you navigate context to back the premise that God is done with the descendants of the Old Covenant?

Does God keep His promises for us, or because His WORD is eternal?

 

[Kaon]

Sadly in forums especially there are people who are very rigid and inflexible in their view-
I did not mean ideology in a manner of something that is taught - rather in a manner like unto the Jews in ancient Israel that studied the scriptures and were looking for their messiah to come - but disregarded the many scriptures that gave them details on how to identify the messiah when he came -

More than 300+ very specific detailed scriptures that described the place where the messiah would come , his birth , his life, his death , his resurrection , how he would be put to death , but even though the scriptures were there and they studied the scriptures - they disregarded the prophecies in favor of what they preferred to believe which resulted in:->

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

They did not receive Him because they were looking for him to come in Power and glory and not as a lamb to be sacrificed -

So even though they read the scriptures they were blinded by their preference in how they chose to interpret the scripture .
Some people today have the same type of mindset where they prefer to focus on a couple of scriptures and disregard other prophetic scriptures and insist that all of the church is Israel -

When biblical scripture does in fact make a distinct reference to people called Israel that do not accept Jesus as Messiah - and are not part of the church but God calls them Israel and people disregard that -
Resulting in the same type of blindness as ancient Israel had.

When people exclusively focus attention on scripture that applies to ONLY that which they prefer - is why they do not understand the distinct difference God points out regarding who Israel is in a specific context !; that people who Choose to disregard the total of the scripture in the Holy Bible - resulting in a blindness that cause them to reject Israel as a nation and reject Israel as the place on earth .

You keep insinuating I am not focusing on canonical scripture, but what I put out was directly from The Word of the Most High God.


If believing what He says alienates me from the entirety of religion over all spectra, then that is perfectly fine. If any man contradicts the Most High God, or the Word of God, then that man is a LIAR.

Doctrine doesn't matter, your favorite biblical hero doesn't matter - because they are imperfect humans, and subject to distortion and corruption. But, the Messiah saying something should be golden. I meant exactly what I said.


I would ask that you please stop directly, and tangentially insinuating that I don't know what I am talking about, that my doggedness is rooted in some "malreligion," and that I am part of some deluded group of people who do not take the word of God seriously. I haven't said anything like this about you, and when I do bring scripture into the discussion - direct quotes from Christ even - you accuse me of not reading my bible, or understanding what I read.

 

[Grip Docility]

You keep insinuating I am not focusing on canonical scripture, but what I put out was directly from The Word of the Most High God.


If believing what He says alienates me from the entirety of religion over all spectra, then that is perfectly fine. If any man contradicts the Most High God, or the Word of God, then that man is a LIAR.

Doctrine doesn't matter, your favorite biblical hero doesn't matter - because they are imperfect humans, and subject to distortion and corruption. But, the Messiah saying something should be golden. I meant exactly what I said.


I would ask that you please stop directly, and tangentially insinuating that I don't know what I am talking about, that my doggedness is rooted in some "malreligion," and that I am part of some deluded group of people who do not take the word of God seriously. I haven't said anything like this about you, and when I do bring scripture into the discussion - direct quotes from Christ even - you accuse me of not reading my bible, or understanding what I read.

Sir,

Are you a preterist?

 

[Kaon]

Yet Romans 11 specifically mentions (enemy of the Gospel Jews) and goes in to specify hope for them and a warning to not be arrogant towards them.

What do you make of this?

Paul was trying to get the people to understand that God did not renege on His promises for Israel and the Hebrews now that He has opened His election to "heathens." It is interesting how non-believers understand judgment and structure of God - as the heathens understood it was problematic for them to receive the gospel also. They understood Hebrew culture, and they knew their God was for them. So, it seemed asinine that God allowed Heathens to partake in His promises.

THAT HAD TO MEAN GOD TURNED HIS BACK ON THE HEBREWS!

However, God DIVORCED Israel because Israel committed literal, spiritual adultery with other gods. And, they continued to spit on His words and prophecy by qualifying it to their own liking, killing prophets and silencing those who know the word of the Most High. Still, The Most High always kept a remnant to keep His people immovable - despite the fact that the world reject that remnant also.

 

[Grip Docility]

Paul was trying to get the people to understand that God did not renege on His promises for Israel and the Hebrews now that He has opened His election to "heathens." It is interesting how non-believers understand judgment and structure of God - as the heathens understood it was problematic for them to receive the gospel also. They understood Hebrew culture, and they knew their God was for them. So, it seemed asinine that God allowed Heathens to partake in His promises.

THAT HAD TO MEAN GOD TURNED HIS BACK ON THE HEBREWS!

However, God DIVORCED Israel because Israel committed literal, spiritual adultery with other gods. And, they continued to spit on His words and prophecy by qualifying it to their own liking, killing prophets and silencing those who know the word of the Most High. Still, The Most High always kept a remnant to keep His people immovable - despite the fact that the world reject that remnant also.

That totally didn’t answer why Paul refrenced Enemy of The Gospel Jews, Gentiles and spoke of ancestral mercy and regrafting outside of the Gentile and Jewish group mentioned.

Your explaination needs to actually address Romans 11 if you want it to stick.

 

[Kaon]

Sir,

Are you a preterist?

I really don't know what that is.

I believe the Word of God came in a human vessel and humiliated Himself to live as a man. I believe He was murdered by the very people He was sent to save, and consequentially resurrected because of His perfection/sacrifice - ultimately nullifying the effects of DEATH for whomever accepts Him.


I do not believe The Word of God has already come back and set up His kingdom (otherwise we are all damned,) and I do not believe the Word of God will make an intermediate advent to pick up saints when He has said repeatedly we have to endure.

I do believe that the Word of God will return when the world has hit another sinusoidal amplitude similar to that one of Noah - and when He does, He will not be a Lamb, but a LION (since the world scoffs at His coming, and continuously murders His people.)


I also do not believe we are in the "tribulation," as it were, just because things are getting bad. The Word of God said many terrible things would happen before the tribulation. Daniel has the beginning of the 1290 "Days" occurring after the abomination that causes desolation occurs.

It hasn't been God's Modus Operandi to remove His people from tribulation - rather, He pushes us through tribulation to show His attributes, and our attributes to us (e.g. strength and endurance you thought you never had.)

 

[Kaon]

That totally didn’t answer why Paul refrenced Enemy of The Gospel Jews, Gentiles and spike of ancestral mercy and regrafting outside of the Gentile and Jewish group mentioned.

Your explaination needs to actually address Romans 11 if you want it to stick.

Yes, it does.

What did Christ say? Those who follow the will of His Father are His brother and sister. Maybe PAUL is saying something else, and as I said before, if Paul contradicts Christ he is a liar.


God DIVORCED Israel, but He left a remnant of Hebrews, and a portion of "gentiles" have already been chosen to be part of His election. This is a very common motif in the old testament: God separates His people from a group of genetic Hebrews, judges the spiritually derelict Hebrews while keeping the set apart group around to witness, and remember His judgments.

A lot of the gentiles accepted and received the message of the Word of God - more often than genetic Hebrews.



Thus, if you do the will of God (whether you are a gentile or Hebrew,) you are the brother and sister of the Word of God, and therefore a child of the Most High God.

 

[Kaon]

This is my stance: If any entity (including Paul) says anything that contradicts God, or [the Word of] God, then they are liars. Everyone has their thing, and entities contradicting the word of the Most High God is my thing.

 

[Grip Docility]

Yes, it does.

What did Christ say? Those who follow the will of His Father are His brother and sister. Maybe PAUL is saying something else, and as I said before, if Paul contradicts Christ he is a liar.


God DIVORCED Israel, but He left a remnant of Hebrews, and a portion of "gentiles" have already been chosen to be part of His election. This is a very common motif in the old testament: God separates His people from a group of genetic Hebrews, judges the spiritually derelict Hebrews while keeping the set apart group around to witness, and remember His judgments.

A lot of the gentiles accepted and received the message of the Word of God - more often than genetic Hebrews.



Thus, if you do the will of God (whether you are a gentile or Hebrew,) you are the brother and sister of the Word of God, and therefore a child of the Most High God.

We read this differently, but you Love Jesus and we have that in common.

Peace to you, Brother in Him.

 

[Kaon]

We read this differently, but you Love Jesus and we have that in common.

Peace to you, Brother in Him.

Same to you.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Yet Romans 11:13-32 Paul distinguishes that he is talking to (Gentiles) and an interesting use of (Enemy of the Gospel Jews) is brought forward.

A study on Romans 11:27 and 11:28 prepared for you to read.

Romans 11:27
[27] For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

The Old Covenant with Israel is PASSED AWAY, and we are living in the New Covenant Period. You need to ask yourself honestly, how many covenants did the Lord established in prophecy that would take away the sins of Israel? The answer is ONLY ONE! And that is the New Covenant established in Christ's blood. That is it. Did Christ not already confirm the everlasting Covenant and take away all the sins of His people, Israel?

Ezekiel 37:26-27
[26] Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
[27] My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

God has ALREADY set His tabernacle among the people in Christ, and His covenant of peace was confirmed in His death and resurrection as is so plainly declared (Hebrews 9:17-18) in scripture.

There is the Old Testament/Covenant, and there is the New Testament/Covenant with Israel. There is no third New Testament with Israel when Christ will come again to take away their sins. That clearly would be confusion.

Hebrews 8:12-13

• "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
• In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."

The Old is over, the New is here, so how could this be talking about some other future Covenant? Jesus said, I am come but to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Are we to think that Jesus was confused and He didn't come for those of Israel, or that He couldn't accomplish His task and didn't take away their sins? Acts chapter 13:23 tells us (speaking of David) '..of this man's seed hath God According To His Promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus.' Are we to reject that Word and believe that Christ didn't as yet come to do this, and He will come at a future date to take away the sins of Israel? God forbid! It's really foolishness to think such things, and yet intelligent people believe them without really giving these prophecies serious consideration. And note, it was "according to His promise to Israel." Do we not understand what the promise to Israel entailed, and did not Paul speak on this topic in the preceding verses? So how can anyone seriously believe that God hasn't fulfilled His promise to raise unto Israel a deliverer? In faithfulness we must forsake the words and traditions of men for the Word of God. You'll find that whenever there is a dispute about scripture, it is generally because someone wants to ignore certain pertinent verses in order that they may hold onto views that they have been taught. In a word, it's the attraction of "tradition." We must be careful not to fall into that same snare that Israel did in looking for earthly or carnal reigns and kingdoms. All scripture must be in agreement that it will harmonize with itself. In this synergy of scripture the truth of prophecy is revealed. It cannot be seen in picking and choosing select verses, but in reviewing and receiving all verses as authoritative that one does not make another null and void. There are no "dueling scriptures" that one war against each other, they all must harmonize. In the study of God's Word we trust it implicitly because we know that it will not lead us wrong if it is our authority. It is man who leads people in the wrong direction by rejecting the word of God in favor of the words of men. And man's word will inevitably lead Christians astray if they do not examine it "in light" of the whole Bible. The representation of the Kingdom is no longer the occupation of the nation of Israel as God's congregation. The New Covenant congregation now represents it. God is not a respecter of persons. Thus Israel shall be saved, but that Israel is not a middle eastern carnal Kingdom, rather it is a Spiritual Kingdom of Jews who are God's chosen people, and a glorious Spiritual nation.

1st Peter 2:9-10

• "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
• Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy."

The New Covenant congregation is now the representation of those who are children of God. The Church is the holy nation, the peculiar or special people, the chosen people, Kings and Priests unto God. The Church, not a nation in the middle east, now represents those things. And it was done by the Covenant that took away the sins of Israel. There is no future salvation program for any nation in the Middle East. The time for becoming covenant children and to have sins taken away for all, is now! As indeed scripture has always been clear on this.

Luke 19:9-10

• "And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
• For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost."

Rejection of Messiah by the Jewish people doesn't mean that the New Covenant was postponed, it only means they are blind to it has come. To declare to anyone of Jewish heritage this myth of a future salvation plan for that nation, is to play a cruel hoax upon them.

The overview of verse 27 is that it is illustrating that Israel in view is NOT a nation by physical heritage, but a people who have been made a family by Christ, rather than blood line. God shows this is all about that present Israel, how they were being restored, how they are the fulfillment of the prophecy, "For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins." Proof that this supports this New Testament with Israel as an act performed by Christ's death on the cross, not the future event that many allege it is. For Christ took away the sin of Israel once, and for all. The New Covenant or Testament is in Christ's blood. This is His covenant unto them when He took away the sins of His people Israel. In the Jews, and the Gentiles being ingrafted into the Covenant with them. Thus this passage illustrates the restoration of Israel is in those brought back to be conformed to the image of Christ (Romans 8:29). He is the "true" Israel of God.

[Contiune to next post on verse 28 regarding "enemies for your sakes"]

 

[TribulationSigns]

[Study on Romans 11:28]

Romans 11:28
[28] As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

The answer is the unbelieving Jews are enemies of the gospel, and indeed of converted Jews and Gentiles. But as for the election of Israel, these are beloved for the promises made to the fathers. For example, the promise to the fathers of deliverance would be kept in "this Election." This verse is contrasting the two Israels (Romans 9:6), which are unbelieving Israel (who are enemies of the Church), and election (who are beloved) of God.

There are those who object to "all Israel" in verse 26 pertaining to only the elect, because they surmise that then the elect in this verse would have to be regarded as enemies. They come to this conclusion because they either forget, or ignore the witness of the context, and of the whole Bible in general. Don't forget that God has already informed us that, "All Israel are not Israel." So then, when it says in the proceeding verses that "ALL ISRAEL shall be saved," it must refer only to the Israel of God who is Elect! The election of Israel excludes those who are not elect of Israel. Even as the scriptures declared:

"..Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded."

The election of Israel has obtained that promise, and the rest of Israel were blinded, even as the imagery of the branches of the Olive tree signified.

And in truth, even the staunchest defender of the distinction of Israel will usually not claim that the term "all Israel" means every single person in Israel will be saved. Therefore, despite his protests, that shows that he does recognize that some of Israel are not included in this "all Israel" that shall be saved. Thus he is actually agreeing that it means only some of the nation of Israel shall be saved.

Moreover, when scripture declared, "For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins," then by definition, and by any normal grammatical structure, this "all Israel" in view will then have their sins washed away.

1st John 3:5-6

• "And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
• Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."

This was the coming of Christ, when He took away Israel's sins. And so indeed, those of Israel who reject this Christ, they become enemies because of the gospel. While concerning those of Israel who are elect, they are beloved because of the promise to the fathers. All Israel is either for Christ, or they are against Him. There is no in between. We are seeing the external covenant Israel, and the election that are part of the eternal covenant Israel.

1. Concerning the gospel, the nation of Israel is blinded and are enemies for our sakes (the Gentiles). For they are at enmity with Christ, and that enmity was the occasion that brought salvation to the whole Gentiles.
2. Concerning the Election, these of Israel is beloved as the remnant whom God has brought through the fire and purged them from their sins, fulfilling the promise to their fathers.

Unbelieving Israel, like Pharisees, Scribes and even Saul persecuted the Church because of the gospel message it brought. They are thus enemies for the Church's sake. Which Paul also confessed he did likewise before his conversion, when he was a blind Israelite.

1st Corinthians 15:9

• "For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God."

But as you know that Paul has become part of the election Israel, within external Israel. God is using him gloriously to bring about salvation to the Gentiles, and accomplish His purposes! His salvation as an Israelite is the fulfillment of the promises He made to the fathers. Israel, the beloved, is a type of Christ (Israel) the Beloved of God. He is the Son called out of Egypt, in whom the election would be beloved of God. It is in Christ that Israel becomes the beloved Holy City. You might want to do a study of the word "beloved" in scripture as it is used in this very interesting way. There is no riddle or mystery concerning this verse about Israel, how it is an enemy in one sense, and concerning the election beloved. The answer to this was stated right in verse seven.

Romans 11:5-8

• "Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
• And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
• What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
• (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day."

Clearly, there are two diverse people within Israel. Israel the nation hasn't obtained it, but Israel the election has obtained it. The remnant is according to the election of Grace, not of race. Selah!

The overview of verse twenty-eight is that it is distinguishing between the diverse people of Israel. Concerning the election, they beloved of God for their father Abraham's sake. While the rest are blinded and left in unbelief, and because of the gospel enemies for the sake of the Gentiles. They were blinded so that we, the Gentiles might see and be part of Covenant Israel. But concerning Israel the election, they are not blinded, they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. That is why Paul was sorrowful. Because most of his kinsmen according to the flesh were enemies of God, while he, being elect, was beloved. Thus he mourned for them. This verse contrasts Israel as an enemy of the gospel for the Gentile's sake, and yet the election of Israel beloved of God because of the promises, which cannot be made null and void.

Hope it helps answer your questions!

 

[Grip Docility]

[Study on Romans 11:28]

Romans 11:28
[28] As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

The answer is the unbelieving Jews are enemies of the gospel, and indeed of converted Jews and Gentiles. But as for the election of Israel, these are beloved for the promises made to the fathers. For example, the promise to the fathers of deliverance would be kept in "this Election." This verse is contrasting the two Israels (Romans 9:6), which are unbelieving Israel (who are enemies of the Church), and election (who are beloved) of God.

There are those who object to "all Israel" in verse 26 pertaining to only the elect, because they surmise that then the elect in this verse would have to be regarded as enemies. They come to this conclusion because they either forget, or ignore the witness of the context, and of the whole Bible in general. Don't forget that God has already informed us that, "All Israel are not Israel." So then, when it says in the proceeding verses that "ALL ISRAEL shall be saved," it must refer only to the Israel of God who is Elect! The election of Israel excludes those who are not elect of Israel. Even as the scriptures declared:

"..Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded."

The election of Israel has obtained that promise, and the rest of Israel were blinded, even as the imagery of the branches of the Olive tree signified.

And in truth, even the staunchest defender of the distinction of Israel will usually not claim that the term "all Israel" means every single person in Israel will be saved. Therefore, despite his protests, that shows that he does recognize that some of Israel are not included in this "all Israel" that shall be saved. Thus he is actually agreeing that it means only some of the nation of Israel shall be saved.

Moreover, when scripture declared, "For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins," then by definition, and by any normal grammatical structure, this "all Israel" in view will then have their sins washed away.

1st John 3:5-6

• "And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
• Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."

This was the coming of Christ, when He took away Israel's sins. And so indeed, those of Israel who reject this Christ, they become enemies because of the gospel. While concerning those of Israel who are elect, they are beloved because of the promise to the fathers. All Israel is either for Christ, or they are against Him. There is no in between. We are seeing the external covenant Israel, and the election that are part of the eternal covenant Israel.

1. Concerning the gospel, the nation of Israel is blinded and are enemies for our sakes (the Gentiles). For they are at enmity with Christ, and that enmity was the occasion that brought salvation to the whole Gentiles.
2. Concerning the Election, these of Israel is beloved as the remnant whom God has brought through the fire and purged them from their sins, fulfilling the promise to their fathers.

Unbelieving Israel, like Pharisees, Scribes and even Saul persecuted the Church because of the gospel message it brought. They are thus enemies for the Church's sake. Which Paul also confessed he did likewise before his conversion, when he was a blind Israelite.

1st Corinthians 15:9

• "For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God."

But as you know that Paul has become part of the election Israel, within external Israel. God is using him gloriously to bring about salvation to the Gentiles, and accomplish His purposes! His salvation as an Israelite is the fulfillment of the promises He made to the fathers. Israel, the beloved, is a type of Christ (Israel) the Beloved of God. He is the Son called out of Egypt, in whom the election would be beloved of God. It is in Christ that Israel becomes the beloved Holy City. You might want to do a study of the word "beloved" in scripture as it is used in this very interesting way. There is no riddle or mystery concerning this verse about Israel, how it is an enemy in one sense, and concerning the election beloved. The answer to this was stated right in verse seven.

Romans 11:5-8

• "Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
• And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
• What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
• (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day."

Clearly, there are two diverse people within Israel. Israel the nation hasn't obtained it, but Israel the election has obtained it. The remnant is according to the election of Grace, not of race. Selah!

The overview of verse twenty-eight is that it is distinguishing between the diverse people of Israel. Concerning the election, they beloved of God for their father Abraham's sake. While the rest are blinded and left in unbelief, and because of the gospel enemies for the sake of the Gentiles. They were blinded so that we, the Gentiles might see and be part of Covenant Israel. But concerning Israel the election, they are not blinded, they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. That is why Paul was sorrowful. Because most of his kinsmen according to the flesh were enemies of God, while he, being elect, was beloved. Thus he mourned for them. This verse contrasts Israel as an enemy of the gospel for the Gentile's sake, and yet the election of Israel beloved of God because of the promises, which cannot be made null and void.

Hope it helps answer your questions!

I will be sincere. I see this much different than you and I well know what the “doctrine of election” means.

I’ve been a hard soldier against this theological leap, in the past.

However, you do have a sincere understanding of this, from your perspective and you have taken the time to express it.

I appreciate this.

All Love in Jesus Christ to you, Brother in Him.

 

[Inkfingers]

Yet Romans 11 specifically mentions (enemy of the Gospel Jews) and goes in to specify hope for them and a warning to not be arrogant towards them.

I'm not sure where are going with that GD...