Stand Back and Stand By

Sparagmos · Oct 1, 2020

Mike McKinney said:
I did read it. Literally, not one reference to left wing violence or the domestic terror groups on the left.

Feel free to show us some quotes, with sources, if you can find any.

So this is really frustrating that I have to do this. From the article:

“Protesting such brutality is right and necessary. It’s an utterly American response. But burning down communities and needless destruction is not. Violence that endangers lives is not.”

“The deadly violence we saw overnight in Portland is unacceptable […] as a country we must condemn the incitement of hate and resentment that led to this deadly clash. It is not a peaceful protest when you go out spoiling for a fight.”

“The deadly violence we saw overnight in Portland is unacceptable. Shooting in the streets of a great American city is unacceptable. I condemn violence of every kind by anyone, whether on the left or the right. And I challenge Donald Trump to do the same.”

“Burning down communities is not protest, it’s needless violence — violence that endangers lives, violence that guts businesses, and shutters businesses that serve the community. That’s wrong.” He adds: “We need to end the violence — and peacefully come together to demand justice.”

You’re being disingenuous, since I got all of these quotes from the article you say you read, or from links in that article.

Kenny'sID · Oct 1, 2020

Sparagmos said:
I don’t recall you asking my opinion. I think that Trump either had a Freudian slip or was intentionally signaling to his supporters, the Proud Boys, that he wanted them to “stand by.” What did I say to unfairly attach the Proud Boys to the President? I don’t know that he’s ever mentioned them. But they are ardent and vocal supporters of him.

You answered to the post "Go do what" and any answer would be your opinion hence my asking for your opinion.

Can't believe I had to explain that

Sparagmos · Oct 1, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
Let me try this, say you are in a club, and some in that club choose to do someting terrible or illegal, does that mean you are that? Does that mean all in the club do those things?

Of course it doesn't and you would no more like being associated with a bunch of bad people than you should expect others to want to.

Your being flat out unfair here...not that I expect any less. lm just not buying that trump is responsible for any of that...not even close.

Kenny. There is ample evidence, much of which has been posted here, that the Proud Boys openly claim that they seek out fights and require violence. It’s literally what they do. I understand and agree that one person in a group, or even a few, does not represent the entire group. But Gavin McGinnes is on record in video and in writing saying the Proud Boys are violent and that you have to be violent to pass “level 4” of the club (LOL.). You don’t need to defend these guys, they are PROUD of the fact that they are violent.

Pommer · Oct 1, 2020

Sparagmos said:
Kenny. There is ample evidence, much of which has been posted here, that the Proud Boys openly claim that they seek out fights and require violence. It’s literally what they do. I understand and agree that one person in a group, or even a few, does not represent the entire group. But Gavin McGinnes is on record in video and in writing saying the Proud Boys are violent and that you have to be violent to pass “level 4” of the club (LOL.). You don’t need to defend these guys, they are PROUD of the fact that they are violent.

Yes, this is an ancient point-of-view, that “violence” (war) is ultimately a “good” because it is in the struggle that people are made to “choose sides” and may the stronger side win!

That this is unsustainable doesn’t ever seem to enter into the “thinking”.

gaara4158 · Oct 1, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
Let me try this, say you are in a club, and some in that club choose to do someting terrible or illegal, does that mean you are that? Does that mean all in the club do those things?

Of course it doesn't and you would no more like being associated with a bunch of bad people than you should expect others to want to.

Your being flat out unfair here...not that I expect any less. lm just not buying that trump is responsible for any of that...not even close.

I’m not saying Trump is responsible for it either. I suspect he meant to tell them to stop doing what they’re doing, but without disavowing them because he knows they’re a significant voter base of his. What came out of his mouth has excited the Proud Boys whether it was his intent or not.

The right thing to do, of course, would be to flatly disavow all white supremacists and their respective groups, but you and I both know he can’t do that.

Pommer · Oct 1, 2020

Mike McKinney said:
And you're lying, since there's not one word of reference to left wing violence or any of the domestic terror groups the left supports in these quotes.

Oh!
I see what you’re going on about...you’d a like for Vice-President Biden to list each and every “left wing group” and denounce violence by each and every group!

Yes, that’s not going to happen and we all know that so cut the carp.

Sparagmos · Oct 1, 2020

Mike McKinney said:
And you're lying, since there's not one word of reference to left wing violence or any of the domestic terror groups the left supports in these quotes.

What left wing terror groups? And how does Biden know what group did what? If he “denounces” Antifa then that leaves out all of the rioting and looting that Antifa nothing to do with.

You have moved the goal posts and it’s nonsensical that you’d want Biden to denounce only one small group of people rather then denounce the actions.

Kenny'sID · Oct 1, 2020

LostMarbels said:
How many times does he have to denounce these people?

I rest my case.

Sparagmos · Oct 1, 2020

Pommer said:
Oh!
I see what you’re going on about...you’d a like for Vice-President Biden to list each and every “left wing group” and denounce violence by each and every group!

Yes, that’s not going to happen and we all know that so cut the carp.

You said it better than me.

Kenny'sID · Oct 1, 2020

gaara4158 said:
I’m not saying Trump is responsible for it either. I suspect he meant to tell them to stop doing what they’re doing, but without disavowing them because he knows they’re a significant voter base of his. What came out of his mouth has excited to Proud Boys whether it was his intent or not.

The right thing to do, of course, would be to flatly disavow all white supremacists and their respective groups, but you and I both know he can’t do that.

See post 110 for that disavowal

Sparagmos · Oct 1, 2020

Pommer said:
Yes, this is an ancient point-of-view, that “violence” (war) is ultimately a “good” because it is in the struggle that people are made to “choose sides” and may the stronger side win!

That this is unsustainable doesn’t ever seem to enter into the “thinking”.

Caveman brains.

LostMarbels · Oct 1, 2020

gaara4158 said:
The right thing to do, of course, would be to flatly disavow all white supremacists

Why? Why can't people let this go? It is becoming obvious there is no way of changing this view point.

gaara4158 · Oct 1, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
See post 110 for that disavowaling.

Mike McKinney said:
Here you go:

“You also had people that were very fine people on both sides . . . and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally.”

“Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.”

“In one voice, our nation must condemn racism, bigotry, and white supremacy. These sinister ideologies must be defeated. Hate has no place in America . . . We have asked the FBI to identify all further resources they need to investigate and disrupt hate crimes and domestic terrorism.”

Funny how his tune changes when he’s up for re-election.

Sparagmos · Oct 1, 2020

Mike McKinney said:
Antifa, BLM, and the anarchist groups.

Not at all. It's the same standard I've held and the same question I've asked from the beginning.

And this is precisely why you're a hypocrite.

When it's Trump, the left demands that he condemn "right wing" violence, as if he has some control or connection to them. But when the same standard is applied to Biden, you say it's nonsensical.

This is why you're not worth paying any attention to and why Proverbs 26:4 says we're to ignore you.

Please, put me on ignore. According to you, I’m a terrorist!

Kenny'sID · Oct 1, 2020

gaara4158 said:
Funny how his tune changes when he’s up for re-election.

Well there you have it, and to me, if he actually ever did like them, that video will be the end of that, election or no election.
And to say what he said, I'd guess there never was any love lost between them, else he would not have ruined it without a blink.

LostMarbels · Oct 1, 2020

[STAFF EDITED DELETED QUOTE]

Maybe it is time for people to open up their ears instead of their mouths all the time.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1311469297613504512

gaara4158 · Oct 1, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
Well there you have it, and to me, if he actually ever did like them, that video will be the end of that, election or no election.
And to say what he said, I'd guess there never was any love lost between them, else he would not have ruined it without a blink.

Tell it to the Proud Boys.

LostMarbels said:
Maybe it is time for people to open up their ears instead of their mouths all the time.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1311469297613504512

He can’t do it without couching the statement in how bad his opponents are or how annoying the question is. Doesn’t scan well.

Mike McKinney said:
Actually, two of the quotes took place eight months after he was elected. Technically, I guess that makes him "up for reelction", but it's dishonest of you to imply that this is only a recent position.

It’s laughably disingenuous to argue that eight months into his first term is technically “up for re-election.” You’re just demonstrating my point.

LostMarbels · Oct 1, 2020

gaara4158 said:
He can’t do it without couching the statement in how bad his opponents are or how annoying the question is. Doesn’t scan well.

What will "scan well"? What will you finally accept? Trump on bended knee with a raised fist?

Kenny'sID · Oct 1, 2020

gaara4158 said:
Tell it to the Proud Boys.

He can’t do it without couching the statement in how bad his opponents are or how annoying the question is. Doesn’t scan well.

It’s laughably disingenuous to argue that eight months into his first term is technically “up for re-election.” You’re just demonstrating my point.

This thread has suddenly become so yesterday.

gaara4158 · Oct 1, 2020

LostMarbels said:
What will "scan well"? What will you finally accept? Trump on bended knee with a raised fist?

A simple, flat, “Yes, I completely disavow white supremacists and their respective groups.” Not followed by any whataboutisms, just a full stop. It’s the easiest thing in the world.

Kenny'sID said:
This thread has suddenly become so yesterday.

Bye!

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