Stability and bible versions.

ChristsSoldier115

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you don't even need a knowledge of Greek you just simply look in Matthew 18:11 in a niv and you will not find it anywhere

At first I went "?????", as I primarily read kjv or niv....so I used my bible app and I noticed.....Matt 18:11 is just not there. It goes from 10 to 12 in all the translations not kjv or niv.. No verse 11 that IS so weird. I wonder why that is. It's a pretty important verse I think.

Well I should say most other translations.
 
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MoreCoffee

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At first I went "?????", as I primarily read kjv or niv....so I used my bible app and I noticed.....Matt 18:11 is just not there. It goes from 10 to 12 in all the translations not kjv or niv.. No verse 11 that IS so weird. I wonder why that is. It's a pretty important verse I think.

Well I should say most other translations.

Matthew 18:11 is in the KJV and the Vulgate. It says "For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost." It's in both of those because the Greek texts they come from has it. It isn't in some other translations because the Greek texts they come from do not have it. I hope that helps a little. If you haven't read any books about the new testament text in Greek then have a look at some, or check some on-line sources. Youtube has some helpful discussions about the texts behind the KJV and those behind the NIV and other English translations.

Here's one ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbQLAavs7Hw
 
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fireof god98

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Matthew 18:11 is in the KJV and the Vulgate. It says "For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost." It's in both of those because the Greek texts they come from has it. It isn't in some other translations because the Greek texts they come from do not have it. I hope that helps a little. If you haven't read any books about the new testament text in Greek then have a look at some, or check some on-line sources. Youtube has some helpful discussions about the texts behind the KJV and those behind the NIV and other English translations.

Here's one ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbQLAavs7Hw
yes Matthew 18:11 is in the foot notes of the niv bible but it is not the same as being in the text Dr.James white does a great job of clearing up this issue
 
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TannarDarr

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KJV only folk make a claim about modern versions being too numerous and because of the number of modern versions they contend that believers are confused - not being able to decide what version is right and which one to use.

Do you experience that kind of confusion and it is discouraging to you?

No, I can walk and chew gum, and tie my shoes too. All are about as difficult as the other.

If we should use the KJV because it was the best, and was declared authorized by a womanizing British King, who also declared IT was holy, at the time it was written. Thus proclaiming it is still the best....

....We should still be driving chariots and shipping cargo in wooden boats...
 
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TannarDarr

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yes Matthew 18:11 is in the foot notes of the niv bible but it is not the same as being in the text Dr.James white does a great job of clearing up this issue

Does he tell people why the King James texts added verses that not even the Early Church father's had heard of????

I find that peculiarly suspicious.
 
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TannarDarr

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Here is one example why the NIV holds value that the King james doesn't offer. NOTE, this is not a universal claim, sometimes Jim did better, like CHARITY being used for Agapao, instead of Love every time. DO you know why that changed??? Because there was a time in AMerica, after the "New Deal" that "charity" was a bad word, and derogatory, so they felt it wasn't capturing the essence in people's minds that was being conveyed in the Greek author's mind at writing.

NIV uses "Sinful nature". That prevents people from confusing the Human body as the focus when Paul writes about the "flesh". If the flesh as in the muscles and skin of the human body, then Paul was an animated skeleton in Romans 7:5-6. Him and others were no longer in the flesh.

So, as language changes, you have a choice. Use an archaic english that doesn't accurately express the meaning of the greek words when it was written, or take advantage of new language discoveries, newer which are older texts, with less chance to be corrupted, and use TODAY'S language so the casual reader will get the whole picture.

You decide.
 
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MoreCoffee

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No, I can walk and chew gum, and tie my shoes too. All are about as difficult as the other.

If we should use the KJV because it was the best, and was declared authorized by a womanizing British King, who also declared IT was holy, at the time it was written. Thus proclaiming it is still the best....

....We should still be driving chariots and shipping cargo in wooden boats...

Womanising? From what I've read his inclinations were a little less specific than that. But that has nothing to do with the quality of the KJV bible. On the whole it seems like a decent translation of the Masoretic text for the old testament and the "received text" for the new testament. But it does suffer from age which leaves some of its vocabulary too antiquated to be clear. And there have been significant advances in Hebrew and Greek scholarship since the early seventeenth century. Yet for all that, I do enjoy reading some passages in the KJV.
 
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TannarDarr

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Womanising? From what I've read his inclinations were a little less specific than that. But that has nothing to do with the quality of the KJV bible. On the whole it seems like a decent translation of the Masoretic text for the old testament and the "received text" for the new testament. But it does suffer from age which leaves some of its vocabulary too antiquated to be clear. And there have been significant advances in Hebrew and Greek scholarship since the early seventeenth century. Yet for all that, I do enjoy reading some passages in the KJV.

I find it very safe to use. I think it's by FAR the prettiest version. The balance of beauty and translation hasn't been duped since. But, the JIM'S only people get me annoyed. As do the NIV IS EVIL people...
 
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MoreCoffee

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I find it very safe to use. I think it's by FAR the prettiest version. The balance of beauty and translation hasn't been duped since. But, the JIM'S only people get me annoyed. As do the NIV IS EVIL people...

I've ordered a NIV but it has not arrived in the mail yet. I haven't used the NIV for a long time now. It's a pity that the NIV publishers have not produced a Catholic Edition (mind you, it would need some work before it could receive approval as a suitable translation for use among Catholic Christians).
 
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prov1810

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I've ordered a NIV but it has not arrived in the mail yet. I haven't used the NIV for a long time now. It's a pity that the NIV publishers have not produced a Catholic Edition (mind you, it would need some work before it could receive approval as a suitable translation for use among Catholic Christians).
The KJV is peerless in terms of literary merit, but the NIV is also beautiful. It's perfect English - a Bible Strunk & White could love, and often mellifluous. The NLT is so clear you'd think it was custom-written for your own brain. The ESV is weird - it combines contemporary and antiquated vocabulary and syntax. This is what happens when they "update" the KJV. But the language of the KJV was archaic when they published it in 1611, and this was deliberate.
 
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TannarDarr

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I've ordered a NIV but it has not arrived in the mail yet. I haven't used the NIV for a long time now. It's a pity that the NIV publishers have not produced a Catholic Edition (mind you, it would need some work before it could receive approval as a suitable translation for use among Catholic Christians).

Go to www.bible.org and try the NET Bible translation.

It's free to DL.

the NIV is the only one that goes for the concepts as it does. Although other's try to get close. But that is inherent with risks of your personal theology getting in the way.

If I'm really hittin the books on something, I've got the NASB for it's literal translation, the NIV for it's conceptual, and the NET because of all it's translators notes as to why they picked what words they picked and what the issues were...

Between the three, I can get a pretty well rounded multidimensional view of it. The Catholic's Bible is probably the only one I haven't used... hehehe
 
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TannarDarr

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The KJV is peerless in terms of literary merit, but the NIV is also beautiful. It's perfect English - a Bible Strunk & White could love, and often mellifluous. The NLT is so clear you'd think it was custom-written for your own brain. The ESV is weird - it combines contemporary and antiquated vocabulary and syntax. This is what happens when they "update" the KJV. But the language of the KJV was archaic when they published it in 1611, and this was deliberate.

well, I think that was VERY well explained.
 
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ProudMomxmany

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If I want to memorize scripture, I tend to go for the KJV...mostly because it seems more poetic and therefore easier to memorize (for me). For my daily reading, I currently use the ESV. For study, I use the ESV, NASB, KJV and Amplified (along with dictionaries, concordances and commentaries). Our church uses the ESV.
 
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MoreCoffee

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Our Church uses the CTS New Catholic Bible for readings in the mass and the NAB for bible study readings. My personal reading is a little wider and includes a number of Protestant translations - though it is disappointing that several do not have the full canon (73 books) available (NASB and NIV for example) but some do (KJV, RSV, NRSV, GNT) but most of my personal reading is done in the New Catholic Bible because it is used in the Divine Office (Liturgy of the Hours) and in all the other liturgical texts of the Catholic Church. It's really a rather good translation for prayer-oriented scripture reading.
 
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