St Paul on Face Coverings

[public hermit]

And don't proclaim the gospel for the same reason? For by that logic any hard-hearted and blind sinner needs to be shielded from the light of God.

What logic? We're talking about people wearing face coverings for the sake of public health. Save logic for things that are hard to figure out.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

What logic? We're talking about people wearing face coverings for the sake of public health. Save logic for things that are hard to figure out.

Easy tiger, the OP is about St Paul's view of the veil Moses wore, and the spiritual symbolism of the face covering. And btw ALL studies show that face masks DO NOT prevent the transmission of any cold or flu. So maybe if we have a little faith in the word of God, it will lead us to all truth. Fair enough?

 

[Jamdoc]

In 2 Corinthians 3:12-4:4, Paul equates the veiling of the face with hardness of heart and blind eyes of those who are perishing in slavery and shame under the law. The unveiled face otoh is free to proclaim the gospel, behold the glory of God and be transformed by the Spirit in mercy and righteousness.

Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech. We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at the end of what was fading away. But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we received mercy, we do not lose heart, but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. But we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Do you consider this passage contains teaching regarding the use of face coverings by Christians today?

No, not even in the slightest.
In fact wearing a covering over your mouth to prevent the spread of disease is a biblical concept.

Leviticus 13:45

And the leper in whom the plague is, his clothes shall be rent, and his head bare, and he shall put a covering upon his upper lip, and shall cry, Unclean, unclean.

Furthermore, social distancing and quarantine are also biblical concepts to prevent the spread of disease, as shown in Leviticus 13:46.
So communicable disease protocol, even 4000 years ago, was to cover your mouth so you didn't cough and spread your germs, warn people that you were sick (the purpose of rending their clothes, uncovering their head, and shouting unclean as they went through the camp, they are visibly and audibly warning people to not get near them and be exposed to their illness), quarantine, burning contaminated clothes, sanitation and washing, and regular checkups to see how they're recovering.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

So communicable disease protocol, even 4000 years ago, was to cover your mouth so you didn't cough and spread your germs, warn people that you were sick (the purpose of rending their clothes, uncovering their head, and shouting unclean as they went through the camp, they are visibly and audibly warning people to not get near them and be exposed to their illness), quarantine, burning contaminated clothes, sanitation and washing, and regular checkups to see how they're recovering.

So we are all lepers now? Should we also shout 'Unclean!' as we walk around the streets?

 

[Tra Phull]

Unclean!! Unclean !!!

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Unclean!! Unclean !!!

Laughing just to keep from crying atm.

 

[InnerPhyre]

So we are all lepers now? Should we also shout 'Unclean!' as we walk around the streets?

Actually most humans are immune to leprosy, so you are much more likely to spread Covid.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Actually most humans are immune to leprosy, so you are much more likely to spread Covid.

According to which religion? Because the word of God and the science are against you.

 

[InnerPhyre]

According to which religion? Because the word of God and the science are against you.

World Leprosy Day


here’s some science for you. 95 percent of people cannot catch it,

 

[Shrewd Manager]

World Leprosy Day


here’s some science for you. 95 percent of people cannot catch it,

Looks like they isolated and purified the bacteria there, which is necessary in the identification and characterisation of a pathogen, in accordance with the proper method. Unfortunately, it's never been done with the supposed new coronavirus, meaning the scientific proof of its existence and pathogenicity is just not there. This is admitted even by the CDC, who say about the PCR test (playing it down with doublespeak):

“Positive results are indicative of active infection with 2019-nCoV but do not rule out bacterial infection or co-infection with other viruses. The agent detected may not be the definite cause of disease. Laboratories within the United States and its territories are required to report all positive results to the appropriate public health authorities.

Centre for Disease Control and Prevention, "CDC-2019 Novel Coronavirus Real-Time RT-PCR Diagnostic Panel Instructions for Use” Rev.05 13 July 2020, p.2.

 

[Paulus59]

Do you consider this passage contains teaching regarding the use of face coverings by Christians today?

Why would we need face coverings? God removed the veil from our face to show Christ within us, with the veil removed we have a relationship with God (Matthew 27:51), why cover that up again?

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Why would we need face coverings? God removed the veil from our face to show Christ within us, with the veil removed we have a relationship with God (Matthew 27:51), why cover that up again?

Yes, Paul's saying face coverings obstruct our relationship with God.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart

We could compromise. Health officials should have nothing against people removing the veil from over their hearts as long as they keep the mask on their face.

 

[InnerPhyre]

Looks like they isolated and purified the bacteria there, which is necessary in the identification and characterisation of a pathogen, in accordance with the proper method. Unfortunately, it's never been done with the supposed new coronavirus, meaning the scientific proof of its existence and pathogenicity is just not there. This is admitted even by the CDC, who say about the PCR test (playing it down with doublespeak):

“Positive results are indicative of active infection with 2019-nCoV but do not rule out bacterial infection or co-infection with other viruses. The agent detected may not be the definite cause of disease. Laboratories within the United States and its territories are required to report all positive results to the appropriate public health authorities.

Centre for Disease Control and Prevention, "CDC-2019 Novel Coronavirus Real-Time RT-PCR Diagnostic Panel Instructions for Use” Rev.05 13 July 2020, p.2.

Well I work in an ER and people do seem to be dying from this nonexistent virus every day while their families wait outside the hospital weeping because they can’t visit their relatives dying on ventilators. Strange. Easy for someone not seeing the human suffering to dismiss though. It’s been my every day life since March. Telling families they have to pick one family member to come into the icu and watch grandpa die through glass while people pontificate pseudoscience on Facebook and such is starting to wear on me.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

Easy for someone not seeing the human suffering to dismiss though.

That`s a problem for most on wide range of issues.

Not seeing the flood or storm rip your house and family apart. Who cares about climate change ?

Not seeing your parents drowning with liquids in their lungs. Who cares about Covid 0,3 % or whatever only die anyway.

Not seeing Predator drone blasting your cousins wedding apart because the intel was that it was a Jihadist meeting. Who cares - wasn`t my cousin or relatives.

Hard to blame anyone on that though. People concentrate what is on front of them. Abstract things are hard to get emotionally involved with.

 

[InnerPhyre]

That`s a problem for most on wide range of issues.

Not seeing the flood or storm rip your house and family apart. Who cares about climate change ?

Not seeing your parents drowning with liquids in their lungs. Who cares about Covid 0,3 % or whatever only die anyway.

Not seeing Predator drone blasting your cousins wedding apart because the intel was that it was a Jihadist meeting. Who cares - wasn`t my cousin or relatives.

Hard to blame anyone on that though. People concentrate what is on front of them. Abstract things are hard to get emotionally involved with.

There’s a difference between ignoring suffering and directly contributing to it through irresponsible behavior.

 

[klutedavid]

In 2 Corinthians 3:12-4:4, Paul equates the veiling of the face with hardness of heart and blind eyes of those who are perishing in slavery and shame under the law. The unveiled face otoh is free to proclaim the gospel, behold the glory of God and be transformed by the Spirit in mercy and righteousness.

Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech. We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at the end of what was fading away. But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we received mercy, we do not lose heart, but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. But we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Do you consider this passage contains teaching regarding the use of face coverings by Christians today?

Definitely not about face coverings. Paul is talking about a veil over the heart and mind. Here I will underline it for you.

But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart;

Paul is talking about the old covenant, the law!

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

There’s a difference between ignoring suffering and directly contributing to it through irresponsible behavior.

The causality between action, inaction and the resulting suffering is even harder for humans to really understand.

Covid and mask use. Your tax money on that aforementioned Predator drone, Your voting of officials that decide to use those drones, your consumer habits and climate change.

Nobody can figure it all out, but the world would be a better place if everyone tried at least a bit.

 

[Strong in Him]

In 2 Corinthians 3:12-4:4, Paul equates the veiling of the face with hardness of heart and blind eyes of those who are perishing in slavery and shame under the law. The unveiled face otoh is free to proclaim the gospel, behold the glory of God and be transformed by the Spirit in mercy and righteousness.

Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech. We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at the end of what was fading away. But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we received mercy, we do not lose heart, but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. But we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Do you consider this passage contains teaching regarding the use of face coverings by Christians today?

Not at all.
Moses put a veil over his face because, after spending time face to face with God, his face shone brightly and the Israelites were afraid to go near him, Exodus 34:30. Moses removed the veil from his face when he was speaking with God; he only put it on when he was among the people, so that they weren't afraid, Exodus 34:33-35.
IOW, the light of God's glory showed on Moses' face because he spent so much time with him; this was hard for the people to look at, so Moses put a veil over his face.

Paul then says that there is still a veil over the hearts of the Israelites and they are unable to see the truth of the Gospel; the veil is only removed in, and by, Christ. When anyone turns to Christ, the veil is taken away, 2 Corinthians 3:16.
If we accept the Gospel we have received the truth. There is nothing between us and God; and we can talk to him directly. This is how Adam and Eve talked with God before the fall, and is the relationship that Jesus came to restore. Face to face fellowship with God is now possible - without the need for a prophet or human intermediary or intercessor - because of Christ.

This is nothing to do with the head coverings mentioned in 1 Corinthians 11:6-10, and nothing at all about wearing masks in a pandemic for health reasons.

 

[InnerPhyre]

The causality between action, inaction and the resulting suffering is even harder for humans to really understand.

Covid and mask use. Your tax money on that aforementioned Predator drone, Your voting of officials that decide to use those drones, your consumer habits and climate change.

Nobody can figure it all out, but the world would be a better place if everyone tried at least a bit.

In the case of pandemic it’s a little more clear cut. We have to pay our taxes and we have little say where they go, but wearing a mask for the 20 minutes that you’re in a grocery store is not a tremendous hardship to potentially save lives. And the more people who decide to stop crying and wear them, the sooner the pandemic ends and we can all stop arguing.