St Paul on Face Coverings

[parousia70]

pffft. So then they 'chip' you. lol

Pfft... good luck with that.

 

[crossnote]

Pfft... good luck with that.

IOW, mask requirements are not 'a catalyst for freedom'?

 

[GraceBro]

When face coverings become law, what's the gracious response? What would Jesus do?

There is no set guidance on what response to make. It is between the individual, the Lord, and the governing authorities. I can't speak for the Lord, but my suggestion is to do your best to be a peace with people (Romans 12:18), but when people are doing their best not to be at peace with you, then you have every right, I believe, to respond accordingly. Talk to the Lord and see if He sheds light on the situation. If not, then He may just be leaving the decision up to the individual. Regardless, He goes with you and will never abandon you. Grace and Peace.

 

[Rebecca4Christ]

Wearing a mask during a pandemic is a hygiene issue, not a theological one.

What if it's a spiritual warfare issue,and people are only seeing it as a physical issue?
We are told to be wise as serpents...

 

[Jamdoc]

What if it's a spiritual warfare issue,and people are only seeing it as a physical issue?
We are told to be wise as serpents...

It's not a spiritual warfare issue, we're not told to worship anything or sin, we're just told to take precautions not to get sick. They tell you to wash your hands too, are you going to avoid washing your hands because the same people telling you to wear a mask when outdoors tell you to wash your hands and avoid touching your face too?
Remember God put authority in its place to help us. Romans 13:1-2.
You defy the law only when the law commands you to sin. I've shown biblical precedent for wearing a covering over your mouth to prevent the spread of disease, and social distancing practices for the same purpose. These are biblical concepts and the government that God has ordained be in power now has advised these steps as a matter of public health, not to stomp on your religious freedom.

If you want to complain about the government being out of line, complain about ordinances where churches are closed but bars and restaurants are not. If both are closed it's not religious persecution but if places of worship are closed and places of sin are open, that's a problem.

My governor was wise about this, he opened churches the sunday BEFORE other places like restaurants and bars were opened, and you might not believe it, but he's actually a democrat.

 

[DamianWarS]

Do you consider this passage contains teaching regarding the use of face coverings by Christians today?

Paul speaks to a specific cultural context. Paul himself agrees that nothing in itself is unclean but rather how we regard something is what makes it unclean. As Christians our focus should be about edifying each other and looking to our mission. A face covering is nothing and if we are talking about matters of faith then do what will best serve your mission, i.e. wearing a face covering if it is respectful and appropriate in your culture (but don't if it's disrespectful) If you're talking about wearing a mask for covid.... Paul's not talking about that so grow up, put a mask on and deal with it.

 

[DamianWarS]

What if it's a spiritual warfare issue,and people are only seeing it as a physical issue?
We are told to be wise as serpents...

The physical is no doubt connected with the spiritual, but if we get a cut we don't pray the demons out of it we but a band aid over it. Praying over the pandemic is a good thing but as you said we need to be "as wise as serpents" and prudence in this case would show better wisdom than gambling, you may win from the latter but it's not out of wisdom, it's out of rolling a dice. Also don't forget to quote all of Christ's words we are to be as wise as serpents but as gentle as doves. The contrast of serpent/dove is deliberate and we must be careful not to confuse the two.

 

[InnerPhyre]

What if it's a spiritual warfare issue,and people are only seeing it as a physical issue?
We are told to be wise as serpents...

Well, I don’t see how wearing a surgical mask can in any way distance you from the love of Jesus Christ, but I do see how it might prevent people from spreading germs and potentially killing your fellow Christians, so I suppose I have to ask how you think that wearing a mask would qualify as a spiritual issue?

 

[Archivist]

The OP still hasn’t answered my question as to whether he would want the doctors and nurses to wear masks if he were going into surgery. He is either using this as a convenient way to not wear a mask himself or he just wants to give us something to talk about.

 

[Strong in Him]

What if it's a spiritual warfare issue,

How can it be a spiritual warfare issue? It's about protecting ourselves, and others, from germs.

And that's still nothing to do with 2 Corinthians 3:13.

 

[Rebecca4Christ]

It's not a spiritual warfare issue, we're not told to worship anything or sin, we're just told to take precautions not to get sick. They tell you to wash your hands too, are you going to avoid washing your hands because the same people telling you to wear a mask when outdoors tell you to wash your hands and avoid touching your face too?
Remember God put authority in its place to help us. Romans 13:1-2.
You defy the law only when the law commands you to sin. I've shown biblical precedent for wearing a covering over your mouth to prevent the spread of disease, and social distancing practices for the same purpose. These are biblical concepts and the government that God has ordained be in power now has advised these steps as a matter of public health, not to stomp on your religious freedom.

If you want to complain about the government being out of line, complain about ordinances where churches are closed but bars and restaurants are not. If both are closed it's not religious persecution but if places of worship are closed and places of sin are open, that's a problem.

My governor was wise about this, he opened churches the sunday BEFORE other places like restaurants and bars were opened, and you might not believe it, but he's actually a democrat.

Well, I don’t see how wearing a surgical mask can in any way distance you from the love of Jesus Christ, but I do see how it might prevent people from spreading germs and potentially killing your fellow Christians, so I suppose I have to ask how you think that wearing a mask would qualify as a spiritual issue?

How can it be a spiritual warfare issue? It's about protecting ourselves, and others, from germs.

And that's still nothing to do with 2 Corinthians 3:13.

A. Fear
B. It's kinda hard to share the gospel at a distance of 6 feet with a muzzle on.
C. It's dehumanizing. How many people look you in the eye now at the grocery store?
We can't see anyone smile.
D. Illness
E. People are putting their faith in man,and masks.
F. Its becoming increasingly hard to buy or sell without one. Not the mark,but a precursor? Get people used to that way of life?
Should I go on?
G. Church closures?

 

[Strong in Him]

A. Fear

I suppose it depends on the person.
I'm not afraid, and I haven't met anyone who wears a mask because they are. Wearing a mask protects others from our germs and ourselves from others' germs. None of us know if we will get Covid 19 and how seriously, or if others may get it through us and end up being in ICU. It's being considerate.

B. It's kinda hard to share the gospel at a distance of 6 feet with a muzzle on.

In my country we only have to wear a mask on public transport, and in the shops from tomorrow. Anyone can walk through a park/woods/on the streets/beach without one.

C. It's dehumanizing. How many people look you in the eye now at the grocery store?

Most.
We can usually tell by someone's eyes if they are smiling.

D. Illness

How is that a spiritual matter?
People may walk down the streets with chicken pox/bronchitis/tummy bugs/flu and no mask.

F. Its becoming increasingly hard to buy or sell without one. Not the mark,but a precursor?

If you choose to think that way.
Plenty of sales are being made online.

G. Church closures?

Depends on how you see it.
WE are the church; the closure of a building may not be a bad thing and does not mean the church has closed/failed/ended. There are lots of church services online now, and some are attracting people who would not set foot in a church building - they are hearing the Gospel in other ways. Some Christians are beginning to realise that Christianity and the spread of the Gospel are not dependant on bricks and mortar; some don't even want to go back to what they had before.
I haven't yet heard anyone asking; "does God want us to go back? What is he saying through this?"

I suppose it's all about perspective, but for me, wearing a mask has nothing to do with spiritual warfare. Lockdown brought me closer to God; not drove me away.

 

[Rebecca4Christ]

I suppose it depends on the person.
I'm not afraid, and I haven't met anyone who wears a mask because they are. Wearing a mask protects others from our germs and ourselves from others' germs. None of us know if we will get Covid 19 and how seriously, or if others may get it through us and end up being in ICU. It's being considerate.



In my country we only have to wear a mask on public transport, and in the shops from tomorrow. Anyone can walk through a park/woods/on the streets/beach without one.



Most.
We can usually tell by someone's eyes if they are smiling.



How is that a spiritual matter?
People may walk down the streets with chicken pox/bronchitis/tummy bugs/flu and no mask.



If you choose to think that way.
Plenty of sales are being made online.



Depends on how you see it.
WE are the church; the closure of a building may not be a bad thing and does not mean the church has closed/failed/ended. There are lots of church services online now, and some are attracting people who would not set foot in a church building - they are hearing the Gospel in other ways. Some Christians are beginning to realise that Christianity and the spread of the Gospel are not dependant on bricks and mortar; some don't even want to go back to what they had before.
I haven't yet heard anyone asking; "does God want us to go back? What is he saying through this?"

I suppose it's all about perspective, but for me, wearing a mask has nothing to do with spiritual warfare. Lockdown brought me closer to God; not drove me away.

Fair enough. I just present my case. It's not my job to force anyone to see anything they don't want to.
I'm curious though, do you think Christian's have an enemy who uses spiritual warfare, as we are warned of in the Bible?
And if so,what does that look like? Is the roaring lion just a purring kitty afterall?
How do you,if at all,see warfare?

 

[Strong in Him]

Fair enough. I just present my case. It's not my job to force anyone to see anything they don't want to.

It's not a case of not wanting to see anything; that's how it is.
I don't deny that some feel very anxious about this, and some who had anxiety issues already may be worse.
I don't deny that the devil may try to use this to instil fear into God's people, or to disrupt their relationship with God - and then the spiritual issue is not the mask but the fear, mistrust and so on.
But for me, and for many other Christians I know, that's not how it is.

I'm curious though, do you think Christian's have an enemy who uses spiritual warfare, as we are warned of in the Bible?

He doesn't use spiritual warfare; he's engaged in it. The devil and his angels are at war with the Lord and his heavenly beings = spiritual warfare.
He is God's enemy and tries to disrupt our relationship with God because we are God's children. He is the thief who comes to steal and destroy, John 10:10a. We have been given the full armour of God so that when the day of evil comes we can stand against him, Ephesians 6:13-20. Incidentally, this armour includes a helmet of salvation - in Paul's day, some Roman helmets covered much of the face. So if you like talking about masks ......

 

[Jamdoc]

A. Fear
B. It's kinda hard to share the gospel at a distance of 6 feet with a muzzle on.
C. It's dehumanizing. How many people look you in the eye now at the grocery store?
We can't see anyone smile.
D. Illness
E. People are putting their faith in man,and masks.
F. Its becoming increasingly hard to buy or sell without one. Not the mark,but a precursor? Get people used to that way of life?
Should I go on?
G. Church closures?

It's not fear. It's prudence. It's not fear to not jump off a cliff, you can't claim that if you have faith that God will not let you die so you should do something purposefully self destructive in faith that God will not let you die. "It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God."
Same thing about "putting their faith in man and masks." You don't intentionally risk exposure to illness and tempt your God to keep you safe. Have you ever thought that's part of HOW God keeps you safe? By providing things like masks, doctors, and government to keep you in line with safety precautions?
God doesn't promise to keep your flesh free of sickness, God doesn't promise protection from any natural disaster or harm. Christians get sick and die all the time.

We're in a world where we have the technology to communicate with people all around the world at a whim, if a mask and 6 feet of distance is enough to prevent you from evangelizing that's just making excuses.

 

[InnerPhyre]

14 Felician Sisters Die of COVID-19

 

[ZNP]

In 2 Corinthians 3:12-4:4, Paul equates the veiling of the face with hardness of heart and blind eyes of those who are perishing in slavery and shame under the law. The unveiled face otoh is free to proclaim the gospel, behold the glory of God and be transformed by the Spirit in mercy and righteousness.

Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech. We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at the end of what was fading away. But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we received mercy, we do not lose heart, but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. But we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Do you consider this passage contains teaching regarding the use of face coverings by Christians today?

Are you suggesting that all these people wearing face masks is a reminder of the hardness of their heart, that a veil lies on their heart, and that they have not yet renounced the hidden things of shame? Are you saying that what we are seeing now is a reminder to all Christians that the gospel is veiled to those who are perishing? Are you saying that this is an urgent reminder that the world needs the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ?

 

[ZNP]

Yes, Paul's saying face coverings obstruct our relationship with God.

No, that is not what the passage states.

 

[ZNP]

Corinthians probably has no mention of wearing a covering helmet when you got to space walk either.

Wonder why that is.

Space walks are in 2nd Corinthians 12:2-4