Spiritual Core

[HappyCat]

permanent rest?

OK, if you like. I was just interested in how Dad would try to explain.

 

[Split Rock]

Ever since I've stopped eating dairy, I've been so much healthier.
Just thought I'd share.

HERETIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111

 

[dad]

Thanks for replying to my questions, it's very civil of you.

Thanks. I try not to get ornery, unless provoked.

I still don't understand why so many people have to suffer and/or be damned for eternity, or are you saying the damned are a lesson for other beings in the future state, so they won't rebel for fear of ending up the same way?

Me either, why not accept salvation now? Then there would be no damned. I actually am no expert in the outer darkness, as it is called, where some are placed, out of God's presence.

Why the specific timescales? Like why a century and a bit between the flood and the state change? How come the state didn't change when Eve ate the apple? Wasn't that the fall?

The surface of the earth did change when they fell. But I am not sure the universe did. That is what I feel that they lived so long then, and so many things were possible that are not now.

Why the dating of the universe change, you ask? The bible talks of the earth being split after the flood/ (divided) It happens to fit with science, and a lot of evidence, migrations, evolution, fossil record, etc. It also was a time when spirits were last known to be real near, and even marry women here. The division was in the days of Peleg, and he was born, by many, if not most interpretations, 101 years after the flood. In his days was the earth 'divided'. It also happens to be 120 years after God gave a dire 120 year warning. It also happens to be the time of Babel.

When you say you suspect He is not the only one in the universe, do you mean not the only god?

No. Beside Him, there is no God. But obviously there are lots of beings, spirits.

Sorry for so many off-topic questions, I'll give it a rest after this.

I don't mind honest questions. The universe fabric, and when it changed is always on topic.

 

[StabbingHobo]

Why the dating of the universe change, you ask? The bible talks of the earth being split after the flood/ (divided) It happens to fit with science, and a lot of evidence, migrations, evolution, fossil record, etc.

And when did this flood and split occur?

 

[Hespera]

HappyCat sez....



OK, if you like. I was just interested in how Dad would try to explain. QUOTE////////



Hespera sez. do as you like! its always the same little cluster of ideas tho, based on this idea that everything was in a different "state' in the past. its cycled and cyucled and cycled in here, i put on ig a long time ago.

 

[HappyCat]

Thanks. I try not to get ornery, unless provoked.

Me either, why not accept salvation now? Then there would be no damned. I actually am no expert in the outer darkness, as it is called, where some are placed, out of God's presence.

The surface of the earth did change when they fell. But I am not sure the universe did. That is what I feel that they lived so long then, and so many things were possible that are not now.

Why the dating of the universe change, you ask? The bible talks of the earth being split after the flood/ (divided) It happens to fit with science, and a lot of evidence, migrations, evolution, fossil record, etc. It also was a time when spirits were last known to be real near, and even marry women here. The division was in the days of Peleg, and he was born, by many, if not most interpretations, 101 years after the flood. In his days was the earth 'divided'. It also happens to be 120 years after God gave a dire 120 year warning. It also happens to be the time of Babel.

No. Beside Him, there is no God. But obviously there are lots of beings, spirits.

I don't mind honest questions. The universe fabric, and when it changed is always on topic.

I don't think you're right that your ideas fit with science, or that any evidence supports your split dating, but I think that's been addressed at length elsewhere.

As to the notion that everyone could accept salvation now if they wanted to, that says nothing about all the people who've already been damned. I don't fancy eternity knowing my parents are suffering eternally because they died atheists. Apparently I love them more than your God.

In fact, I don't fancy eternity at all, especially with the knowledge that eternal suffering exists for anyone.

There are internal contradictions in your views and you can't explain them. You don't even seem to accept that they exist. A lot of what you say doesn't come from the bible and doesn't fit with observable reality. Thanks for trying, but I'll take Hespera's advice.

Cheers!

 

[thaumaturgy]

I don't fancy eternity knowing my parents are suffering eternally because they died atheists. Apparently I love them more than your God.

Personally if someone gave me the ability to torment someone in agony for eternity I would probably not be able to do that. I can't imagine hating someone so much that I could, on my choice, allow them to be tortured for eternity.

I have definitely disliked someone enough to want to make them feel bad for a while. But eternity?

I've definitely been a hard-person and said "you made your bed, now you lie in it", but for eternity?

I always wondered about that aspect of God.

Further how is one all-merciful and all-just? Isn't one tempered by the other? If justice is meted out without fail, how can mercy ever be allowed? If mercy is given one undeserved, how can justice be complete?

There are internal contradictions in your views and you can't explain them. You don't even seem to accept that they exist.

All one need do when faced with dad's posts is realize that he's found an interesting way to bungle rather interesting philosophical concepts (like empiricism and Hume's epistemology, and the "unobserved"). He is never actually able to follow through with the thought as it might apply to his own position. Classic freshman philosophy 101 error. Might have helped had he actually taken a philosophy class.

 

[dad]

I don't think you're right that your ideas fit with science, or that any evidence supports your split dating, but I think that's been addressed at length elsewhere.

No. All that has been done with dating, in science is to apply the decay and laws and processes we know, to the deeply unknown. For science to address the bible past, or future, it has to grow into a body of knowledge and study of more than the physical only present state. Until then, it is not in a position to address it.

[quoote]As to the notion that everyone could accept salvation now if they wanted to, that says nothing about all the people who've already been damned.[/quote]
True. But the damned have had, or got the same choice. If we swere to stick a damned person in heaven, they would likely beg to be returned to hell.

I don't fancy eternity knowing my parents are suffering eternally because they died atheists. Apparently I love them more than your God.

If that is true, I can understand that. But I also would have to ask what their current advice to you would be. ..If they loved you.

In fact, I don't fancy eternity at all, especially with the knowledge that eternal suffering exists for anyone.

Then I guess you don't fancy earth either.

[quoote]There are internal contradictions in your views and you can't explain them. [/quote]
No, not a one. That is why you forgot to list them.

You don't even seem to accept that they exist. A lot of what you say doesn't come from the bible and doesn't fit with observable reality. Thanks for trying, but I'll take Hespera's advice.

Cheers!

If it didn't fit the bible some people would and could make a bible case against it. See any? There is a reason for that, I am on rock solid ground. Run if you will.

 

[dad]

Personally if someone gave me the ability to torment someone in agony for eternity I would probably not be able to do that. I can't imagine hating someone so much that I could, on my choice, allow them to be tortured for eternity.

Right, I guess you would let them torment others. How just. God, move over.

I have definitely disliked someone enough to want to make them feel bad for a while. But eternity?

God does not make people feel bad. He sent His Own son to die, so all men who wanted could be saved. If they chose to fight His spirit and love, and gifts, there comes a point that they need to take a hike.

I've definitely been a hard-person and said "you made your bed, now you lie in it", but for eternity?

I always wondered about that aspect of God.

Me too. But knowing many other aspects of Hiim, we can tell it isn't like that.

Further how is one all-merciful and all-just? Isn't one tempered by the other? If justice is meted out without fail, how can mercy ever be allowed? If mercy is given one undeserved, how can justice be complete?

Because the price was paid in full for the crimes by Jesus.



All one need do when faced with dad's posts is realize that he's found an interesting way to bungle rather interesting philosophical concepts (like empiricism and Hume's epistemology, and the "unobserved"). He is never actually able to follow through with the thought as it might apply to his own position. Classic freshman philosophy 101 error. Might have helped had he actually taken a philosophy class.[/quote]
Man's stabbing attempts at philosophy have nothing at all to do with the absence of proof for the foundational basis of so called science. The philosohies of man are vain, short sighted, absent of God's wisdom, or word, and a wasted effort all the way round.

But I guess some like to pretend they have a case, even when it can't seem to surface.


Col 2:8 - Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world,

 

[dad]

And when did this flood and split occur?

From the best estimates I can find, that are bible based, the flood about 4500 years ago, and the split about 4400 years ago.

 

[Nathan Poe]

From the best estimates I can find, that are bible based, the flood about 4500 years ago, and the split about 4400 years ago.

Well, then, we should have plenty of documentation from peoples around the world about the nature of the universe taking a sharp left turn around that time.

 

[Split Rock]

Why the dating of the universe change, you ask? The bible talks of the earth being split after the flood/ (divided) It happens to fit with science, and a lot of evidence, migrations, evolution, fossil record, etc.

You have been arguing here for years that The Split does NOT fit with science, physical evidence, etc. because the present "state" is different from the past "state!" As far as "evidence" is concerned the only "evidence" is your erroneous, hubris-clouded interpretation of a few lines from scripture. If you have anything else, you are sure keeping it a secret!

 

[dad]

Well, then, we should have plenty of documentation from peoples around the world about the nature of the universe taking a sharp left turn around that time.

We do. The tombs of Egypt, for example (regardless of same state dating) seem to be a memorial to the shorter life spans and rapid onslaught of death.

 

[dad]

You have been arguing here for years that The Split does NOT fit with science, physical evidence, etc. because the present "state" is different from the past "state!" As far as "evidence" is concerned the only "evidence" is your erroneous, hubris-clouded interpretation of a few lines from scripture. If you have anything else, you are sure keeping it a secret!

No. You have it wrong. Of course it fits the evidence. Name it, and it fits.

 

[Nathan Poe]

We do. The tombs of Egypt, for example (regardless of same state dating) seem to be a memorial to the shorter life spans and rapid onslaught of death.

Or they could be monuments to their dead Pharaohs. How do they "seem" to be anything else?

(bear in mind that your response will be put to the cheese test.)

 

[Split Rock]

No. You have it wrong. Of course it fits the evidence. Name it, and it fits.

I have a better idea, dad. You name some hypothetical evidence that would not fit with your dadology. I bet you cannot, because it is all ad hoc to fit anything and everything.

 

[dad]

Or they could be monuments to their dead Pharaohs. How do they "seem" to be anything else?...

Guess you'll never know. One thing is certain, they took death awful seriously, and tombs were coming out the gazebo over there. If the shoe fits..

 

[dad]

I have a better idea, dad. You name some hypothetical evidence that would not fit with your dadology. I bet you cannot, because it is all ad hoc to fit anything and everything.

Now now, just because the different state fits all the actual evidence, is noo need to get coy.

By the way, wheres the pics of pre 4500 level tree rings? Let that be a lesson in claiming stuff you can't back up. This one's on me.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Now now, just because the different state fits all the actual evidence, is noo need to get coy.

By the way, wheres the pics of pre 4500 level tree rings? Let that be a lesson in claiming stuff you can't back up. This one's on me.

How about 9550 years old? I guess that pushes the flood back just a little.

Oldest Living Tree Found in Sweden

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Let that be a lesson in claiming stuff you can't back up.

BTW dad, you owe me a new "iron-o-meter," as mine just blew up.