Speaking in Tongues a Cessationists’ View

[Presbyterian Continuist]

You know, threads that debate continuance/cessationism/tongues are always the longest and more fun! Of course there is more sarcasm and insults as well, but that just adds to the fun of it. We must remember that we are all brothers and sisters in Christ and Jesus loves us all equally regardless of what position we take. The Scripture says that can have only partial knowledge and when we prophesy (some believing it is preaching and sharing the Word rather than anything similar to OT prophecy, and I don't have a problem with that actually), in a partial manner. None of us have all the answers, but it is fun and interesting debating the issues and this is what keeps CF alive. We should not feel threatened in our faith just because someone doesn't see things our way, and resort to carnal responses. I am human just like anyone else, and I do react in carnal ways at times,and when I go too far, I get the inevitable warning from the moderator. But that goes with the territory on these forums.

I tried another Christian forum once, and I found out that the person who ran that forum hated and loathed Pentecostals and was rude, insulting and downright nasty to me. I got out of that forum as fast as I could because I could see that the guy was being motivated by a demonic religious spirit and not the Spirit of Christ - not because he disagreed with Pentecostalism, but that he was rude and nasty, and I couldn't see "rude", "nasty", "insulting" in the list of the fruit of the Spirit. So I was so glad to get back to CF where it is better moderated and we are all encouraged to conduct ourselves with grace, kindness and gentleness, and to be patient with those who don't see it our way.

So, I have seen people leave CF because they have thrown their toys out of the cot because others won't see things their way - but believe me, many other forums are much worse and by being on them a good person could get oppressed by a depression demon and condemnation bombs by just sharing their views. I know it happens a little here, but we have good moderators who will step on that sort of thing if posts like that are rightfully reported.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

so then we agree

that means you are not a cessationist anymore...
thats TOTALLY LOGICAL

It is because he has entered into continuance, but not as we know it, Jim!

 

[Anto9us]

Dr McCoy says: "Blast it, Spock - he never WAS a cessationist! He's been a continuationist for 45 years - before he ever heard of the term 'continuationist'! When are you going to lead us into finding Captain Kirk instead of us gallavanting all over the galaxy on some WILD GOOSE CHASE!!!!"

"DocTOR -- I assure you that I am in search of the Captain - not some wild aquatic fowl."

 

[Anto9us]

What proof do you have that Ananias of Damascus ever saw the Lord personally?
Or the apostle Paul, for that matter.

Spock raises an eyebrow.

There are four different accounts of Paul's Damascus Road experience - 3 in Acts, 1 in Galatians.

I must now search for any evidence in those four accounts for whether or not Paul is recorded as SEEING Jesus.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Dr McCoy says: "Blast it, Spock - he never WAS a cessationist! He's been a continuationist for 45 years - before he ever heard of the term 'continuationist'! When are you going to lead us into finding Captain Kirk instead of us gallavanting all over the galaxy on some WILD GOOSE CHASE!!!!"

"DocTOR -- I assure you that I am in search of the Captain - not some wild aquatic fowl."

The Borg would say that no one should be a cessationist or continuist, but needs to be part of the Collective and all think exactly the same!

 

[Saint Steven]

The Borg would say that no one should be a cessationist or continuist, but needs to be part of the Collective and all think exactly the same!

You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Spock raises an eyebrow.

There are four different accounts of Paul's Damascus Road experience - 3 in Acts, 1 in Galatians.

I must now search for any evidence in those four accounts for whether or not Paul is recorded as SEEING Jesus.

Wesley Crusher says that he saw a bright light which blinded him and he heard the voice of Jesus speaking from the centre of that light.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

This thread is descending into madness! Full inpulse power, get us out of here!

 

[Anto9us]

1Co 15:8

And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

 

[Saint Steven]

Good night.

1 Corinthians 15:8 NIV
and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

"Some of these ecstatic babbling were reported in the “Report of Wenamon” (about 1100 BC), Plato’s Dialogues (5th century BC), and Virgil’s Aeneid (1st century BC)."

Virgil's Aeneid, I believe, has discussions of a MANTIS and a PROPHAETIS -- I shudder with terror to even relate such a paganistic horror.

This is where the Greek word PROPHET comes from, people.

In the perfidious and hideous pagan cults - the MANTIS was a female figure who breathed in the fumes coming from a volcanic fissure -- she went AFAR OFF in her mind, way out there, like the Cessationists accuse the charismatics of doing.

Under the influence of these fumes, the Mantis babbled incoherent mumbo-jumbo that only the PROPHAETIS could understand! The Prophaetis interpreted the words of the Mantis to the hoi polloi and maybe they all donated a few bucks.

Talk about a Cessationist Witch-Hunt! This is simply how the Greek word for PROPHET originated. Sheesh.

The MANTIS!! Reminds me of two praying mantises sitting at a table and one says to the other, "I stopped praying 10 minutes ago. I thought you had too!"

 

[Anto9us]

1Co 15:3
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
1Co 15:5
And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
1Co 15:6
After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1Co 15:7
After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
1Co 15:8
And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

 

[Saint Steven]

This thread is descending into madness! Full inpulse power, get us out of here!

Talk about "warped" drive. This is ridiculous.

 

[Anto9us]

Praying Mantises are weird bugs.

So it was in NONE of the Damascus Road accounts that I was thinking of - but Paul in 1 Corinthians said he saw the risen Lord.

 

[Anto9us]

"We need WARP 7!! Can ya DO IT, Scotty?"

"Aye, Captin, but we'll hafta run some TESTS!!"

"No time, Scotty -- test it in combat!"

 

[Saint Steven]

Praying Mantises are weird bugs.

So it was in NONE of the Damascus Road accounts that I was thinking of - but Paul in 1 Corinthians said he saw the risen Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:8 NIV
and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

"And THEY gave forth THEIR lots and the lot fell on Matthias

Is that similar to the time when Moses was sick and the lot fell on Joshua?

 

[Anto9us]

About to beam down to the most dangerous planet in the universe, Kirk selects a landing party that includes all the top officers of the ship:
"I'll go, and gimme Spock, Scotty, Bones, Chekhov and Geologist Smith"

Boy - you KNEW 'Smith' was gonna GET IT as soon as they beamed down there...

Smith: "Captain I see something... AHHHyieee..."

Kirk: "Bones -- how is Smith?"

McCoy: "Blast it -- he's DEAD, JIM! Every corpuscle in his body has been turned into magnesium!"

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Are you seriously calling that verse which you quote here a proof that tongues never ceased? It not only doesn't do that, but neither does it promise that every believer of all time will be gifted with tongues, etc..

If the Holy Spirit contains all the ministries and gifts that He has for the Church, then He is not going to cut out one or two and say they are no longer available for Christians to use. It is either all or nothing with Him. God's way for us is total obedience to His will and purpose or no obedience at all. There is no sitting on the fence. Therefore, if the Holy Spirit is going to withdraw a couple of the gifts, then he has to remove them all. That effectively removes Him from the Church, because without the gifts and ministries, He has nothing more to contribute to the Church. Of course, there are many churches where nothing will change in them if the Holy Spirit was removed from them.

So because the Holy Spirit has a will of His own, which is in total unity with the Father and the Son, He is not going to withdraw gifts from the Church just because some demonized priest in the Middle Ages says so. So, if the Holy Spirit determines that a believer is to be an intercessor, and says "Here is the gift of tongues to assist you in that ministry", and if the believer says, "I don't believe that this gift is for today", then the Holy Spirit could quite easily say, "Well there is nothing I can do with you, so you might as well sit in the back pew and wait for the Rapture."

So, people can show me chapter and verse that says directly that the Holy Spirit has said, "I have withdrawn the gifts of tongues, prophecy, and healing from the Church" in so many words (and not some obscure half a verse out of context), that that the Holy Spirit has directly said, "When you finally set the Canon of Scripture in place, then I will remove the gifts because they will be no longer needed", then I will change my opinion.

We need to base our opinions and beliefs on the direct statements of Scripture, not on the fantasy ideas of men who make up doctrines to suit themselves.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

This is your interpretation. But only the Apostles distributed the charismatic gifts after the two outpourings. So today's claims of having the charismatic gifts are false.

Be careful that you do not belittle other groups of believers by calling them false. Read the forum rules. You can disagree with the charismatic gifts but you are out of order on this forum by calling other Christians false believers because they believe in them.