Speaking in Tongues a Cessationists’ View

[Dave L]

According to scripture, God enabled believers to speak to him in a heavenly language. A language unknown except by him and those to whom he gave a gift for interpreting it (1 Corinthians 14:27–28).

Many think the Apostles spoke supernaturally in human languages at Pentecost. And people from different nations naturally understood what they said in their own tongue. But Paul says when a person speaks in tongues, they speak to God and not to men (1 Corinthians 14:2). So on Pentecost, the Apostles spoke to God in a heavenly tongue and devout Jews from every nation overheard them in their own native tongue. So they must have received the gift of interpreting too.

God delivered the gift of tongues personally in the baptism of the Holy Spirit during the Jewish outpouring and about seven years later in the gentile outpouring at Cornelius’ house. But all other times he delivered the gift of tongues through the Apostles’ hands (Acts 8:18). Scripture does not mention any other means of distribution apart from these.

God placed tongues and interpretation into groups of converts in various regions through the Apostles. So each church would have God’s word spoken personally to them by individual members who received the gift. We see the laying on of hands in Jerusalem (Acts 6:6), Ephesus (Acts 19:1–7), and Samaria (Acts 8:14–17) and throughout Paul’s journeys where he gave the gifts (2 Timothy 1:6; Romans 1:11). God sent Ananias, who according to history was one of the original seventy disciples ordained by Christ, through whose hands Paul became healed and filled with the Holy Spirit (Acts 9:17).

They spoke God’s word through tongues and interpretation and through prophecy. With this they passed around the Apostle’s writings that would become the New Testament scriptures. Paul said tongues would stop when a better way, one that is perfect comes (1 Corinthians 13:8–10.)

Many think perfection happens in the new heavens and earth. But Paul qualifies this by saying whenever it comes, faith, hope and love would remain (1 Corinthians 13:13). Faith, hope and love fits well into this present world where we need all the faith, hope and love we can get. But in the world to come we’ll have all we ever hoped for and believed in. So Paul inferred tongues would stop sometime before Christ’s return on the last day, when hope and faith find fulfillment in the new world.

Paul urged believers to come behind in no gift until the coming (apocalypse or Revelation) of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 1:7). This is the same word John uses for the apocalypse of Jesus Christ. What we call the book of Revelation.

So this is likely what Paul saw through a glass darkly. A revelation he knew was coming but didn’t know how or when. Paul urged them to continue seeking spiritual gifts until Christ provided a revelation. We know a revelation came through John about the time speaking in tongues disappears from history.

Many gifts continue today as permanent endowments to the Church. We have miracles and healings through the prayer of faith (James 5:15). Also pastors, evangelists and teachers with the Apostles and Prophets cast in their writings (Ephesians 4:11). But God removed the apostolic signs and wonders with the death of the last Apostle. And he gave us a more sure word of prophecy than tongues and prophecy could provide (2 Peter 1:17–20).

God withdrew the Apostles, honoring them in the Book of Revelation. He wrote their names in the foundations of heavenly Jerusalem with the names of the twelve sons of Israel. This brought to a close the apostolic age and the gifts that flowed through their hands.

 

[Stringfellow_Hawke]

Just curious, not trying to start a debate:

This past weekend I attended a service with my best friend who is in a church that still believes in tongues, gifts, etc.
I heard his pastor praying in tongues. Is he just jibbering? Could he be speaking another language that we didn't know he knew? Finally, and no offense or disrespect intended, but could you possibly have this wrong?

 

[JLB777]

But God removed the apostolic signs and wonders with the death of the last Apostle.

The five fold ministry is given until we all come to the unity of faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect [complete] man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;



11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. Ephesians 4:11-16



Until every person who will ever be "in Christ" is born and takes their place in the body of Christ, then the body of Christ will not be complete.


Have we all come to the unity of faith?

Does everyone in Christ, believe the same doctrine?


The doctrine of Christ is what we all must both believe and do as a unified body, for this scripture to be fulfilled.


He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith ...


Till we all come to the unity of faith, there will be Pastors and Teachers, Evangelist's and Prophets, as well as Apostles.



JLB

 

[Dave L]

The five fold ministry is given until we all come to the unity of faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect [complete] man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;



11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. Ephesians 4:11-16



Until every person who will ever be "in Christ" is born and takes their place in the body of Christ, then the body of Christ will not be complete.


Have we all come to the unity of faith?

Does everyone in Christ, believe the same doctrine?


The doctrine of Christ is what we all must both believe and do as a unified body, for this scripture to be fulfilled.


He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith ...


Till we all come to the unity of faith, there will be Pastors and Teachers, Evangelist's and Prophets, as well as Apostles.



JLB

We have the five fold ministry today if you believe the bible is God's word. We have the same Apostles Acts had in their writings.

 

[Dave L]

Just curious, not trying to start a debate:

This past weekend I attended a service with my best friend who is in a church that still believes in tongues, gifts, etc.
I heard his pastor praying in tongues. Is he just jibbering? Could he be speaking another language that we didn't know he knew? Finally, and no offense or disrespect intended, but could you possibly have this wrong?

Many cultures speak in tongues and receive a "high" from it. But I do not think it is the same as the early church experienced. http://www.dana.org/News/Speaking_in_Tongues__Glossalalia_and_Stress_Reduction/

 

[JLB777]

We have the five fold ministry today if you believe the bible is God's word. We have the same Apostles Acts had.

Yes.

 

[JLB777]

Many cultures speak in tongues and receive a "high" from it. But I do not think it is the same as the early church experienced. http://www.dana.org/News/Speaking_in_Tongues__Glossalalia_and_Stress_Reduction/

Have you been Baptized with the Holy Spirit?

 

[Dave L]

Have you been Baptized with the Holy Spirit?

Yes.

 

[GTW27]

According to scripture, God enabled believers to speak to him in a heavenly language. A language unknown except by him and those to whom he gave a gift for interpreting it (1 Corinthians 14:27–28).

Many think the Apostles spoke supernaturally in human languages at Pentecost. And people from different nations naturally understood what they said in their own tongue. But Paul says when a person speaks in tongues, they speak to God and not to men (1 Corinthians 14:2). So on Pentecost, the Apostles spoke to God in a heavenly tongue and devout Jews from every nation overheard them in their own native tongue. So they must have received the gift of interpreting too.

God delivered the gift of tongues personally in the baptism of the Holy Spirit during the Jewish outpouring and about seven years later in the gentile outpouring at Cornelius’ house. But all other times he delivered the gift of tongues through the Apostles’ hands (Acts 8:18). Scripture does not mention any other means of distribution apart from these.

God placed tongues and interpretation into groups of converts in various regions through the Apostles. So each church would have God’s word spoken personally to them by individual members who received the gift. We see the laying on of hands in Jerusalem (Acts 6:6), Ephesus (Acts 19:1–7), and Samaria (Acts 8:14–17) and throughout Paul’s journeys where he gave the gifts (2 Timothy 1:6; Romans 1:11). God sent Ananias, who according to history was one of the original seventy disciples ordained by Christ, through whose hands Paul became healed and filled with the Holy Spirit (Acts 9:17).

They spoke God’s word through tongues and interpretation and through prophecy. With this they passed around the Apostle’s writings that would become the New Testament scriptures. Paul said tongues would stop when a better way, one that is perfect comes (1 Corinthians 13:8–10.)

Many think perfection happens in the new heavens and earth. But Paul qualifies this by saying whenever it comes, faith, hope and love would remain (1 Corinthians 13:13). Faith, hope and love fits well into this present world where we need all the faith, hope and love we can get. But in the world to come we’ll have all we ever hoped for and believed in. So Paul inferred tongues would stop sometime before Christ’s return on the last day, when hope and faith find fulfillment in the new world.

Paul urged believers to come behind in no gift until the coming (apocalypse or Revelation) of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 1:7). This is the same word John uses for the apocalypse of Jesus Christ. What we call the book of Revelation.

So this is likely what Paul saw through a glass darkly. A revelation he knew was coming but didn’t know how or when. Paul urged them to continue seeking spiritual gifts until Christ provided a revelation. We know a revelation came through John about the time speaking in tongues disappears from history.

Many gifts continue today as permanent endowments to the Church. We have miracles and healings through the prayer of faith (James 5:15). Also pastors, evangelists and teachers with the Apostles and Prophets cast in their writings (Ephesians 4:11). But God removed the apostolic signs and wonders with the death of the last Apostle. And he gave us a more sure word of prophecy than tongues and prophecy could provide (2 Peter 1:17–20).

God withdrew the Apostles, honoring them in the Book of Revelation. He wrote their names in the foundations of heavenly Jerusalem with the names of the twelve sons of Israel. This brought to a close the apostolic age and the gifts that flowed through their hands.

You have believed not, so you have received not. Armed with a gospel of unbelief.

 

[Dave L]

You have believed not, so you have received not. Armed with a gospel of unbelief.

You cannot believe if scripture does not teach. And if you believe what it does not teach you believe a lie.

 

[swordsman1]

Dave L, I would agree with your post apart from tongues being a heavenly language.

According to scripture, God enabled believers to speak to him in a heavenly language. A language unknown except by him and those to whom he gave a gift for interpreting it (1 Corinthians 14:27–28).

Where? I can't see anywhere in scripture where it says Christians spoke or are expected to speak in a 'heavenly language'. It's not in the verse you quoted.

Many think the Apostles spoke supernaturally in human languages at Pentecost. And people from different nations naturally understood what they said in their own tongue. But Paul says when a person speaks in tongues, they speak to God and not to men (1 Corinthians 14:2). So on Pentecost, the Apostles spoke to God in a heavenly tongue and devout Jews from every nation overheard them in their own native tongue. So they must have received the gift of interpreting too.

The plain reading of Acts 2 says the disciples spoke in foreign human languages.

Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance."​

Notice tongues (languages) is plural - there were a number of languages spoken. And it was the disciples doing the speaking.

Acts 2:6 "And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language."​

It says the crowd heard "them speak in his own language". This cannot be interpreted in any other way than the disciples speaking in the foreign languages of the crowd. It then lists the languages spoken by the disciples. There is no mention of a miracle of hearing in the ears of the crowd.

1 Cor 14:2 doesn't say tongues was a heavenly language. The whole of Paul's letter to the Corinthians was correcting a series of problems in their church (eg. taking each other to court, sexual immorality in the church, getting drunk at the Lord's table, etc). The problem Paul addresses in Ch.14 is people speaking in unrecognized tongues during church meetings. So taken in context, 1 Cor 14:2 should be read "For one who speaks in an [unrecognized] tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one [in the congregation] understands". That doesn't mean it is a non-human language. If someone was speaking say Persian in a small Greek house church it is not surprising nobody understood what was spoken. Only God, who understands all languages, knows what was spoken.

God delivered the gift of tongues personally in the baptism of the Holy Spirit during the Jewish outpouring and about seven years later in the gentile outpouring at Cornelius’ house. But all other times he delivered the gift of tongues through the Apostles’ hands (Acts 8:18). Scripture does not mention any other means of distribution apart from these.

That's true.

Many think perfection happens in the new heavens and earth. But Paul qualifies this by saying whenever it comes, faith, hope and love would remain (1 Corinthians 13:13). Faith, hope and love fits well into this present world where we need all the faith, hope and love we can get. But in the world to come we’ll have all we ever hoped for and believed in. So Paul inferred tongues would stop sometime before Christ’s return on the last day, when hope and faith find fulfillment in the new world.

Very true. Many people misinterpret 1 Cor 13:8-13 as referring to the 2nd coming of Christ when there is no mention of Christ or his return. Verse 13 and a detailed analysis of the rest of that passage shows that tongues and prophecy would cease before the 2nd coming.

Many gifts continue today as permanent endowments to the Church. We have miracles and healings through the prayer of faith (James 5:15). Also pastors, evangelists and teachers with the Apostles and Prophets cast in their writings (Ephesians 4:11). But God removed the apostolic signs and wonders with the death of the last Apostle. And he gave us a more sure word of prophecy than tongues and prophecy could provide (2 Peter 1:17–20).

God withdrew the Apostles, honoring them in the Book of Revelation. He wrote their names in the foundations of heavenly Jerusalem with the names of the twelve sons of Israel. This brought to a close the apostolic age and the gifts that flowed through their hands.

All true.

 

[Sanoy]

I just don't see how we can derive cessation from 1 Corinthians 13:8. Couldn't they also cease when Christ comes and establishes the new kingdom where all that is needed is love?

And how can we place Johns revelation as the time of cessation when prophecy was so much larger than eschatology. Pauls first mission was in response to the prophecy of an immediate famine. And isn't God's Spirit to be poured out in the last days, plural. That seems to indicate it will persist until the final day, not less than a century.

 

[Saint Steven]

According to scripture, God enabled believers to speak to him in a heavenly language. A language unknown except by him and those to whom he gave a gift for interpreting it (1 Corinthians 14:27–28).

Many think the Apostles spoke supernaturally in human languages at Pentecost. And people from different nations naturally understood what they said in their own tongue. But Paul says when a person speaks in tongues, they speak to God and not to men (1 Corinthians 14:2). So on Pentecost, the Apostles spoke to God in a heavenly tongue and devout Jews from every nation overheard them in their own native tongue. So they must have received the gift of interpreting too. …

Thanks for starting this thread.
I strongly disagree. Yet I still appreciate you.

The Apostle Paul writes:

1 Corinthians 13:1
If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels?
I would certainly agree that the tongues of angels is a heavenly language.
But what about the tongues of men?

Even in Acts chapter two we read:

Acts 2:11
(both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The hearers heard more than one tongue. And recognized that they were ALL hearing what was spoken in THEIR own tongue.

To claim that the hearers were exercising the gift of interpretation means they were manifesting the Holy Spirit before they received it. Otherwise, why would Peter declare this to them?

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The whole of first Corinthians chapters twelve through fourteen boils down to this.

1 Corinthians 14:39
Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.

 

[Saint Steven]

I just don't see how we can derive cessation from 1 Corinthians 13:8. Could they also cease when Christ comes and establishes the new kingdom where all that is needed is love?

And how can we place Johns revelation as the time of cessation when prophecy was so much larger than eschatology. Pauls first mission was in response to the prophecy of an immediate famine. And isn't God's Spirit to be poured out in the last days, plural. That seems to indicate it will persist until the final day, not less than a century.

Thanks for bringing this up.
The cessationists shoot themselves in the foot with this scripture. They point out what it says about tongues but completely overlook what it says about prophecy, which they define as preaching. And it comes first in order of "ceasing". Not to mention the last one which is "knowledge" passing away. Are we there yet? The other two need to accompany tongues.

1 Corinthians 13:8
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

 

[swordsman1]

The cessationists shoot themselves in the foot with this scripture. They point out what it says about tongues but completely overlook what it says about prophecy, which they define as preaching. And it comes first in order of "ceasing". Not to mention the last one which is "knowledge" passing away. Are we there yet? The other two need to accompany tongues.

Most cessationists today would say that prophecy ceased as well. A minority say that prophecy continues today as preaching. That was the stance of many of the puritans as well as one or two cessationists today (notably John MacArthur). But it is hard to reconcile that view from scripture.

 

[Saint Steven]

Most cessationists today would say that prophecy ceased as well. A minority say that prophecy continues today as preaching. That was the stance of many of the puritans as well as one or two cessationists today (notably John MacArthur). But it is hard to reconcile that view from scripture.

Right, it is hard to reconcile that view from scripture.
I see them playing both sides of the definition of "prophecy".
We are still left with "knowledge" passing away. (one of the three) Are we there yet?

 

[Doctor.Sphinx]

Just curious, not trying to start a debate:

This past weekend I attended a service with my best friend who is in a church that still believes in tongues, gifts, etc.
I heard his pastor praying in tongues. Is he just jibbering? Could he be speaking another language that we didn't know he knew? Finally, and no offense or disrespect intended, but could you possibly have this wrong?

Do an experiment, and get two people to interpret, but have their interpretations given in separate rooms (i.e. so neither can hear the other's interpretation). I think the experiment will show that your best friend is just jibbering, or at the least, your interpreters can't interpret. If there are no interpreters, isn't the biblical instruction to keep the "tongues" between himself and God?

 

[swordsman1]

Right, it is hard to reconcile that view from scripture.
I see them playing both sides of the definition of "prophecy".
We are still left with "knowledge" passing away. Are we there yet?

It's not general knowledge that passed away. Is general knowledge a spiritual gift? Surely you wouldn't say all general knowledge ceases when the Lord returns? No, it is the spiritual gift of 'words of knowledge' (1 Cor 12:8), a type of revelation, that ceased.

 

[Dave L]

Thanks for starting this thread.
I strongly disagree. Yet I still appreciate you.

The Apostle Paul writes:

1 Corinthians 13:1
If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels?
I would certainly agree that the tongues of angels is a heavenly language.
But what about the tongues of men?

Even in Acts chapter two we read:

Acts 2:11
(both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The hearers heard more than one tongue. And recognized that they were ALL hearing what was spoken in THEIR own tongue.

To claim that the hearers were exercising the gift of interpretation means they were manifesting the Holy Spirit before they received it. Otherwise, why would Peter declare this to them?

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The whole of first Corinthians chapters twelve through fourteen boils down to this.

1 Corinthians 14:39
Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.

Thanks for the reply. The devout Jews from all nations were born again Jews. So they received the Holy Spirit with the gift of interpretation along with the Apostles. They were obviously believers or they would not have asked "what must we do?".

I believe Paul is making a point about love and not that there are tongues of men and angels. Paul limits tongues to speaking to God 1 Corinthians 14:2 and not to men. So any who know what is being said also have the gift of interpretation.

Acts 2:38 would be addressed to the 3000 who had not been added to the church yet. Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. So those who asked obviously had the Holy Spirit or they would not have asked for instructions.

 

[Paul.]

According to scripture, God enabled believers to speak to him in a heavenly language. A language unknown except by him and those to whom he gave a gift for interpreting it (1 Corinthians 14:27–28).

Many think the Apostles spoke supernaturally in human languages at Pentecost. And people from different nations naturally understood what they said in their own tongue. But Paul says when a person speaks in tongues, they speak to God and not to men (1 Corinthians 14:2). So on Pentecost, the Apostles spoke to God in a heavenly tongue and devout Jews from every nation overheard them in their own native tongue. So they must have received the gift of interpreting too.

The argument here is a continuation of the either / or situation with tongues. Tongues is either human languages understood by the hearer but not the speaker as it appears in Acts 2 or tongues is a language only understood by God as shown in 1 Cor 14. I believe the Bible does not put such limits on the expression of speaking in tongues. We see tongues can be understood by the hearer but not speaker Acts 2, tongues can be angelic languages 1 Cor 13 and tongues can be only a language understood by God 1 Cor 14. If you do not believe this is possible, please explain.