Something to think about.

[chickenman]

"I am a Christian, nothing is going to change my mind. I do not believe in evolution and I DO NOT want to know about it." - celandine

A creationist in the making

 

[Jerry Smith]

Celandine is a young lady who probably doesn't realize how much is involved in this debate, or that it evolution-denial is not a tenant of the Christian religion. She could probably do with some friendly words to point her in the right direction more than criticism. I remember being her age - & at that stage, criticism tends to hurt more than it helps.

 

[CJF]

Gosh! Okay, about the big bang, I have something to say. If a big bang created this entire universe, then where did the BANG come from? AND, you can't POSSABLY be saying that one all powerfull bang created only ONE planet with drinkable water and breathable air? I mean, it says IN THE BIBLE that God created us out of HIS image. Evolution, say's we were made from mokeys, or apes. Then I ask, if we came from apes then why are the apes still apes and not humans? I think Celandine has a point. AND, about the lightning thing, God created lighting. He made the static electricity that makes the lightning. The Bible even says that God made every THING. That includes you, me the sun, the water, everything on this planet and around the planet God created. NOT one big bang. And, yes, sometimes science CAN get in the way. Just like, television can get in the way of your spending time with God. If you lay on the couch all day and watch television, you wont be reading your Bible, like you should. If you get all wrapped up in science, and don't stop to read your Bible, science CAM get in the way of God. You could put science in the way and you wont be fed your daily wisdom from God's word.


Gosh, I had no idea ADULTS could be so rude to those younger than them. Adults are to be respected, but adults must also learn to respect others younger than them and their opinions. SO LAY OFF!

 

[Azrael]

Originally posted by CelandineBaggins
Well, I obviously made a mistake posting in this forum. I am a Christian, nothing is going to change my mind. I do not believe in evolution and I DO NOT want to know about it. You people can debate about evolution and the big bang and stuff all you want. I'm through until I have something interesting to talk about in this forum. In my opinion, science just gets in the way of God. I mean, God is much more comforting than the thought of evolving from something else. I like to think that something extremely powerful created me specially according to his perfect plan. I like to think that he knows how many hairs I have on my head. I like to think that he knows where I am at all times. I like to know that he loves me for who I am, who he made me. Much more comforting!

From this statement alone, I have the feeling that your too scared to face the real world so you wrap yourself in blind faith.

 

[Jerry Smith]

Originally posted by Azrael



From this statement alone, I have the feeling that your too scared to face the real world so you wrap yourself in blind faith.

When I was her age, I had a legitimate fear of the "real world" at large. Please show some understanding. This young woman is obviously an intelligent person who has been subjected to creationist fear-mongering in recent times. Everyone makes mistakes - the difference is that young people have more time to learn from them...

 

[Starscream]

Gosh, I had no idea ADULTS could be so rude to those younger than them. Adults are to be respected, but adults must also learn to respect others younger than them and their opinions. SO LAY OFF!

I suspect that some of people speaking to this young lady are youngsters themselves. I also suspect that her youth was unknown to some of the posters here.

And further, I'm sure you can understand why some of the posters here are on the defensize. People from both sides of the debate here commonly accuse each other of being dishonest. In fact, I strongly believe that some of the YEC's here are purposely dishonest, but that doesn't mean they all are.

I agree with you and Jerry though, this young woman would learn more from gentle words than insults. I expect everyone here to take here age into account while addressing her.

 

[Jerry Smith]

I'm glad you weighed in Starscream. Rufus has been a model of courtesy in speaking to this young woman. He was the first to catch on that she didn't belong in the same class with the adult creationists who post here.

 

[EspressoDuck]

I would like to say one thing, I am sorry for losing my temper. It probably sounded very childish, and I sincerely apologize. I cannot see where anyone would get the notion that I am wrapping myself in blind faith. Let's just say that you are all right, and that there is no God, or that we were created from monkeys, or whatever your theories are. If I sincerely follow my faith, and it really doesn't exist, what have I got to lose? But if you guys (and girls) are wrong, you have a lot more to lose than just your seemingly logical science. I am not calling you wrong, at least not in this post. I am not afraid to face the real world, bacause I face the real world every day. I don't live in a hologram, you know. I see signs of God every where I look. To me, it just makes more sense. And thank you very much to all of you who presented your ideas to me in a polite and tolerable manner. I appreciate it much more than you know. I will not change my mind unless a monkey walks up to me and talks, explaining the whole theory of evolution, but I will tolerate you and your ideas, and do my best to be patient, not lose my temper, and treat you like other human beings. After all, nobody knows everything.
Celandine

 

[CJF]

I agree 100%. VERY WELL SAID CELANDINE!

 

[EspressoDuck]

Originally posted by DARRIONS
I agree 100%. VERY WELL SAID CELANDINE!

To be completely honest and in a completely friendly way, you really didn't sound like it in your other post.

 

[CJF]

Sorry, I wasn't meaning fot it to sound like I was putting YOU down. I didn't notice I had posted after you. SORRY!

 

[RufusAtticus]

Originally posted by DARRIONS
Gosh! Okay, about the big bang, I have something to say. If a big bang created this entire universe, then where did the BANG come from?

We don't exactly know right now. That is currently one area of investigation. I am not a physicist, so I can't tell you where the research stands. If you want me to, I can try to find out.

AND, you can't POSSABLY be saying that one all powerfull bang created only ONE planet with drinkable water and breathable air?

Actually, nobody says that. We only know of one Earth-like planet capable of sustaining life as we know it. (Free icecream to the first to name it. HS grads need not apply.) However, we have good reason to suspect that as we look will will find more.

I mean, it says IN THE BIBLE that God created us out of HIS image. Evolution, say's we were made from mokeys, or apes.

That really isn't a problem from a theological standpoint. Most Christians accept that our physical forms have evolved, and we had ancestors that would qualify as monkeys. (Humans are considered to be apes.) These Christians feel that God gave us a soul and that is how we are created in His image. In other words, it is not difficult for Christians to reconcile evolution with Genesis 1:26.

Then I ask, if we came from apes then why are the apes still apes and not humans?

Because evolution is about branching relationships not replacement. The best way to answer is to let you figure it out on your own by asking you two questions.

If dogs came from wolves, why are there still wolves?
If you came from your parents, why are your parents still here?

about the lightning thing, God created lighting. He made the static electricity that makes the lightning. The Bible even says that God made every THING.

If God can creat lightening through static electricity, why can't He create Man through evolution?

If you get all wrapped up in science, and don't stop to read your Bible, science CAM get in the way of God. You could put science in the way and you wont be fed your daily wisdom from God's word.

But that is not the fault of science. It's the fault of the Christian who gets so wrapped up in himself and his work that he forgets that he has other duties.

Gosh, I had no idea ADULTS could be so rude to those younger than them. Adults are to be respected, but adults must also learn to respect others younger than them and their opinions. SO LAY OFF!

We are so used to dealing with adults who act like children that we forget that children sometimes act like children. I personally try to treat young adults like yourself differently than full adults, specifically because of your age. I appologize for not identifying young minds quicker. My offer still stands to help Celandine and you work through some of these topics.

 

[CJF]

About God making us out of monkeys, God SPECIFICALLY said he made the first man, Adam, out of dirt. Eve, came from Adam's rib. The Bible says it all man. IT'S WRIGHT THERE!!!!!! Everything! How the earth was formed, how light was made, how darkness was made, how the animals were made, everything. God made EVERYTHING. If we were made from monkeys, it would say, "Humans were made from monkeys." But, it doesn't that. God made Adam out of dirt, and he made Eve out of Adam's rib.

About the monkey turning into human thing and me coming from my parents: If a human was origonally an ape, it would have taken YEARS for the ape to turn into a human. AND, my mom didn't turn into me. She gave BIRTH to me. That's not evolution. Evolution say's that apes turned into humans. Not that an ape gave birth to a human. As my friend said, if an ape turned into a human, than why don't we see a half human half ape walking around? Because WE DID NOT COME FROM APES, AND APES DID NOT TURN INTO HUMANS! Common sense will tell you that!

 

[RufusAtticus]

Originally posted by CelandineBaggins
If I sincerely follow my faith, and it really doesn't exist, what have I got to lose? But if you guys (and girls) are wrong, you have a lot more to lose than just your seemingly logical science.

Celandine,

There are more than two option as far as religious beleif goes. Science is not one of them, but I understand what you're trying to say. The problem with that argument is that you and I could both be wrong and the Muslims could have the right answer. Do you feel that you should be both a Muslim and a Christian to make sure you got that option covered?

I see no reason why a person of Faith like yourself should feel threatened by science or feel that it has no buisness in her life. You do use computers, ride in cars, go to the doctor, etc. Obviously, you don't have as much a problem with science as you appear to be making out.

I will not change my mind unless a monkey walks up to me and talks, explaining the whole theory of evolution,

Would you settle for a couple of humans explaining it to you?

After all, nobody knows everything.

I will be the first to agree with you.

 

[EspressoDuck]

I am beginning to see where you are coming from. I still have a hard time accepting it, however. Genesis 1:26 says and I quote- "Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image, in our likeness...'"
Can you argue with that? And if We came orignally from monkeys, why don't monkeys have souls also? It says in Genesis that God created man. Not monkeys to eventually over thousands of years branch off and evolve into man. That's what really confuses me. I am the one who originally said science gets in the way of God, and you're right there, because science does not have a mind of it's own, it's the Christian who makes the decision what to do with the science.

 

[CJF]

Christians can have Faith in the one and only God, because we know that we have the right answer. I mean, no other god out there, sent his only son to die on a cross that we could enter Heaven. The Lord God, who created the earth, sent His ONLY Son, Jesus Christ to die for us, that we might be forgiven. God then, rose His Son from the dead, pon the third day, so that we could have a way to Heaven. Only Jesus Christ is the way. We can have Fath in that, because we've felt God's presance. So, it's quite easy to have Faith in God. And no, we do not need to trust in the Muslums AND be a Christian to ensure our answer. Then, we wouldn't really be following God. We'd be worshiping someone OTHER than the REAL God.

 

[CJF]

I can't remember were this Scripture is, but I think it's in either Romans, or 1 Corinthians: "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean NOT on your OWN understanding. In all your ways acknowledge HIM and He shall direct your paths."

 

[EspressoDuck]

Originally posted by RufusAtticus


Celandine,

There are more than two option as far as religious beleif goes. Science is not one of them, but I understand what you're trying to say. The problem with that argument is that you and I could both be wrong and the Muslims could have the right answer. Do you feel that you should be both a Muslim and a Christian to make sure you got that option covered?

No... I guess I just meant that...I dunno. It's seemed logical when I typed it.

I see no reason why a person of Faith like yourself should feel threatened by science or feel that it has no buisness in her life. You do use computers, ride in cars, go to the doctor, etc. Obviously, you don't have as much a problem with science as you appear to be making out.

I really don't have a problem with science. But when it tries to tell me God didn't make me a human, I get confused. I didn't mean I have a problem with science. I know it came out that way.

Would you settle for a couple of humans explaining it to you?

You can explain it, but all I'll do is listen.
I just want some answers right now. This is a scary thing.

 

[RufusAtticus]

Originally posted by DARRIONS
About God making us out of monkeys, God SPECIFICALLY said he made the first man, Adam, out of dirt. Eve, came from Adam's rib. The Bible says it all man. IT'S WRIGHT THERE!!!!!! Everything! How the earth was formed, how light was made, how darkness was made, how the animals were made, everything. God made EVERYTHING. If we were made from monkeys, it would say, "Humans were made from monkeys." But, it doesn't that. God made Adam out of dirt, and he made Eve out of Adam's rib.

Do believe that the Earth is flat or that it is the center of the universe? There are passages in the Bible that would indicate as such. However, almost all modern Christians feel that such passages are not to be taken literally. Furthermore, a sizable portion of Christians today also feel that Genesis is not to be taken literally. The emphasis of Genesis is that God is the Creator. The rest is essecentially traditional Hebrew oral stories, that allowed them to feel they understood His Work. We now don't need to rely on a litteral interpretation of Genesis to allow us to feel that we know why we are here.

But I ask you, is a litteral Genesis esseciential to the part God and the Son play in your life. Does having a common ancestor with other animals really negate the salvation Jesus brought to mankind?

If a human was origonally an ape it would have taken YEARS for the ape to turn into a human. AND, my mom didn't turn into me. She gave BIRTH to me. That's not evolution. Evolution say's that apes turned into humans. Not that an ape gave birth to a human.

Darrions, you have some misconceptions about what evolution is and says. Evolution is about populations of organisms changing over generations. Individuals don't evolve; populations do. Your mother gave birth to you, but you are different from her. Likewise, our ancestors gave birth to individuals different from them. Over millions of years and countless generations, these differences that occured ever generation built up and produced something completely new. This the how a monkey-like primate can have humans as descendents.

As my friend said, if an ape turned into a human, than why don't we see a half human half ape walking around?

Because we have 100% human-100% apes walking around. If you don't believe me, look in the mirror. Humans are apes, just as we are primates, mammals, vertebrates, and animals. This does not cheapen humanity, but makes it stronger.

 

[CJF]

Rufus, have you read God's word, The Bible?