Something About Mary

[Thekla]

"Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father." Matt 13:43

 

[Rev Randy]

If my church forbids drunkedness, but hosts a keg party every weekend and pays for designated drivers to get the participants home, does the church really have any ground to stand on if someone accuses it of drunkedness by simply saying "Nawunnn! We expressly forbid such a thing".

Where's this kegger being held? Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[Root of Jesse]

That is a customary way of looking at it, and I acknowleged that even though I know that the meaning is "has found favor with God."

However, if we take your explanation, it still doesn't change anything.



Ah. "hand in hand." Like "cue" before it, that means you understand that there is no real connection but you'd like to make it seem that there is.

No, there is nothing that makes for any Immaculate Conception out of those words.

The meaning of kecharitomene is not "has found favor with God." Even if we agree on "found favor", which is not conceded, it is past, present and future tense...

 

[Stryder06]

Yes it is as a heretic can be fixed. The anti-christ?

How has history shown the manner in which a heretic is "fixed"?

And if I'm not mistaken, the word anti-christ isn't in Revelation.

 

[Defensor Christi]

Dude, how many red herrings you have in that basket?
Wait, you like caps better?
So, no answer then?
That's cool.
NP!

Scripture above, pray for them and restore them "gently".

How am I supposed to answer your question when you dont know what it looks like?

 

[Defensor Christi]

Looks like I had it right minus the hyphon.

Do you know see the distinction used by the Church? This should clear up all issues...

 

[Root of Jesse]

Except that the angel did not say that.

He did say that. He used a perfect passive participle. The Meaning of Kecharitomene: Full of Grace (Luke 1:28) PhilVaz Phil Philip Phillip Porvaznik

 

[steve_bakr]

Is it?

There are a few Protestants and Protestant churches that take that stand, and it's one issue only. Compare that with the standard position of the Roman Church that all of us are phonies. Oh, yes, we are considered to be Christians--heretical, separated brethren in our ecclesial communities--but Christian.

Actually, I think that "ecclesial communities" means churches. My parish is an ecclesial community. And I don't think that "heretical" is the current position.

We are linked to a lot of Church documents from the past, and where we are going pastorally is sometimes difficult to reconcile in official theology. But I support Rahner's view that not everything the Church comes out with must necessarily be taken as a norm for all historical circumstances and for all times. At any rate, the time has come for the Church to give official recognition to Protestant church bodies.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Would you mind me asking at what point the reverence to Mary could be considered idolatry? Like what would one have to do for you to know that they were actually worshiping her? How could you, or your church tell?

What's the difference between the veneration given to Mary, and the saints for that matter, and the worship given to God. What distinguishes it? Is it simply the word? Or is there an act that would allow you to know that X person has crossed the line and is now committing idolatry?

It's not my place, nor is it yours, to judge people's intent. That's God's responsibility.

We worship God, we honor Saints and we specially honor Mary.

 

[Albion]

Actually, I think that "ecclesial communities" means churches.

If so, the Vatican and other officials can start calling Protestant churches "churches."

Actually, I think that "ecclesial communities" means churches. My parish is an ecclesial community. And I don't think that "heretical" is the current position.

So, is that what the sign out front reads-- "St. Mary's Catholic Ecclesial Community?"

At any rate, the time has come for the Church to give official recognition to Protestant church bodies.

 

[sunlover1]

Actually, I think that "ecclesial communities" means churches. My parish is an ecclesial community. And I don't think that "heretical" is the current position.

We are linked to a lot of Church documents from the past, and where we are going pastorally is sometimes difficult to reconcile in official theology. But I support Rahner's view that not everything the Church comes out with must necessarily be taken as a norm for all historical circumstances and for all times. At any rate, the time has come for the Church to give official recognition to Protestant church bodies.

What a sweet spirit.

If all the raindrops were jellybeans and gumdrops
oh what a rain that would be?

IF all the Christians were sweet and kind oh what a
witness it would be.

 

[sunlover1]

How am I supposed to answer your question when you dont know what it looks like?

I used YOUR means of discernment lol
Who's silly now?
I gotta run.
Bummer huh?

 

[Rev Randy]

How has history shown the manner in which a heretic is "fixed"?

And if I'm not mistaken, the word anti-christ isn't in Revelation.

I'm quite aware anti-christ is not a word in the Revelation but in the epistles of John. History has shown that education and repentance cures heresy. Now I am not agreeing with those catholic notes as I don't consider my Church to be heretical either and we also were branded as such. Just saying it's not as harsh as anti-christ today. Now back when folks burned heretics predating that message, you'd have been correct to have taken it as a fix by death only.

 

[Rev Randy]

Actually, I think that "ecclesial communities" means churches. My parish is an ecclesial community. And I don't think that "heretical" is the current position.

We are linked to a lot of Church documents from the past, and where we are going pastorally is sometimes difficult to reconcile in official theology. But I support Rahner's view that not everything the Church comes out with must necessarily be taken as a norm for all historical circumstances and for all times. At any rate, the time has come for the Church to give official recognition to Protestant church bodies.

I think you just read my mind. We may both be in trouble Steve. I think time is far past due for the EO and RCC to get over it as well. I have a feeling that mindset will not set well with many in our own communities. Most have long since given up.Regardless of official statements, I will not accept that all ProtestantsI are not of the Church. I can only deal with the "we do not know part about some. I'm completely sure about some and know they are of the Church. Whoops, I was not supposed to say that, was I?

 

[Defensor Christi]

I used YOUR means of discernment lol
Who's silly now?
I gotta run.
Bummer huh?

So...you arent going to answer the question? Got it...

 

[Root of Jesse]

Ah, but remember that they are willing to call us Christians, so what IS our problem anyway? --the fact that they consider us heretics, rebels, disrespectful of lawful authority, religious Johnny Come Latelys, members of make-believe church bodies, bereft of real religious validity and without legitimate sacraments or clergy, and that we are unrepentant "anti-Catholics" for mentioning it when they say how egalitarian they are towards us as is shown by them saying "We consider you to be Christians?"

I think it's funny, you guys think you're heretics...you naturally assume that when a Catholic publication says "heretics", you translate that as "me"...

I've never called either of you a heretic...even if you disagree with me about Mary...

 

[Root of Jesse]

Is it?

There are a few Protestants and Protestant churches that take that stand, and it's one issue only. Compare that with the standard position of the Roman Church that all of us are phonies. Oh, yes, we are considered to be Christians--heretical, separated brethren in our ecclesial communities--but Christian.

HWGA. In order to be a heretic, you had to have been Catholic first. All Christians are separated bretheren. None of us follows Christ perfectly. So you're separated bretheren in your eclesial community who don't agree with some of what the Catholic Church teaches. Right? RIGHT?

We who call ourselves Catholics are separated bretheren who profess to believe what the Catholic Church teaches.

You choose to believe what you want to believe. Sorry you feel so...demeaned.

 

[Albion]

I think it's funny, you guys think you're heretics.

I said you consider us to be heretics, not that we agree with that.

you naturally assume that when a Catholic publication says "heretics", you translate that as "me"...

When Catholics say that Protestants are heretics, whom should I think they have in mind?

 

[Root of Jesse]

It's been explained to you why it isn't. And BTW, you do know that your Traditionist church isn't guided by the Bible anyway, so why even mention what it is or isn't teaching us at that point?

It's been explained to you why it is.

Wait, wait, wait. Hold everything. My traditionalist church isn't guided by the Bible??? STOP THE PRESSES!


How ridiculous a statement is that??? Especially when we know (even if you don't) that your church is a branch of our church? When the entire liturgy is infused with Scripture, from beginning to end?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It's not my place, nor is it yours, to judge people's intent. That's God's responsibility.

We worship God, we honor Saints and we specially honor Mary.

So do the Muslims...so don't let us stop ya

http://www.christianforums.com/t3126280-86/
[Moved from GT]-Mary and Muslims?

It makes one wonder, if indeed, there is a historical and theological connection between Rome and Mecca, with Mary being the common link?

ROME, JUNE 29, 2006 (Zenit.org).- An Egyptian Muslim and deputy director of a prominent Italian newspaper suggested that Mary could be the figure who brings Christians and Muslims together.

Magdi Allam of Il Corriere della Sera spoke to ZENIT about the appeal he launched in the pages of the national daily newspaper to Muslims living in Italy to visit the Marian shrines in their host country.

The journalist said that he is convinced that the Virgin Mary is a meeting point between Christians and Muslims.

"Mary is a figure present in the Koran, which dedicates an entire sura [chapter ed.n.] to her and mentions her some thirty times. In Muslim countries there are Marian shrines that are the object of veneration and pilgrimage by Christian and Muslim faithful," he said.

"Therefore, I believe that if this happens in Muslim countries, why can't it happen in a Christian country, especially in a historical phase in which we need to define symbols, values and figures that unite religions, spiritualities and cultures?" he asked.

In Allam's opinion, "the Marian pilgrimage of Loreto -- Italy's National Shrine -- could represent a moment of meeting and spiritual gathering between Muslims and Catholics, around Mary, a religious figure that is venerated by both religions."

Vittorio Messori, author of book-interviews with Pope John Paul II and Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (now Benedict XVI), also wrote in Il Corriere della Sera on June 15 in support of Allam.

He said that the dialogue between Christians and Muslims "can begin afresh from Mary."

Mary a Meeting Point of Cultures, Says Muslim | ZENIT - The World Seen From Rome

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