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Something About Mary

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Unix

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It's not idolatry:
Whenever I asked people what was 'wrong' with the RCC the answers were the same. "They worship Mary." "They pray to saints." "They kiss idols." You know the drill. It's the same as what we see on these boards all day long.



But IMO You can't pray others than Mary to intercede:
This leads me to believe that we have a culture clash on our hands, where flowery reverence to the physically dead saints became enshrined in tradition, while flowery reverence for the physically living saints went out of style with hats.




I've learned to pray to Mary sometimes but I pray to Jesus at the same time.
 
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Gnarwhal

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I personally feel that Mary is of importance, in that she brought The Lord into the world, and she was picked by God especially. I've heard people say anyone could have bore Christ, but I believe differently.

I agree, she stood out to God the same way that some prophets and Patriarchs before her stood out to God for a purpose. Hence why Gabriel greeted her in the manner that he did.
 
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simonthezealot

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Protestants, generally speaking, are just scared to death of letting Mary in the front door. You can sometimes get some of your more high-church protestants to celebrate the feasts of the four evangelists, maybe Peter & Paul, and some of the more modern saints, but Mary just makes them quake in their boots.

I think they're afraid she'll take over.
Ridiculous.
We see it as opposition in our hearts to the true God.

"I will not give my glory to another"......
 
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SolomonVII

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Well, what I have been told is that asking the saints there for intercession is analogous to asking saints here for intercession (i.e. "pray for me, brother"). Interceding for each other with our prayers is certainly Scriptural. What might be problematic is the idea that saints there should be more readily asked for intercession then saints here.

Such a discontinuity leads to what Albion was talking about whereby icons turn into magic genies with special powers all their own.

Churches might mitigate this tendency by insisting on the equality of saints past and present (for example).

Sure. Jesus is the Tree of Life. and anyone who eats from that tree will live forever.
As a matter of faith, we know that there is continuity of life of some kind between those alive and those who have passed on.
We also are aware through direct experience that those who have passed on are not here for us in the same way as the people that have not passed on.

It is a purely spiritual exercise, praying to those dead in Christ, or asleep in Christ, or whatever euphemism is that is used to describe something that is beyond our capacity to know, from this side of the cross so to speak.

It is not surprising then that all sorts of rather superstitious practices can ensue, as people fill in the gaps of that which we cannot know with their own imaginings.

As for people praying for us more readily from the other side of the grave, I am not sure that it is uncommon especially among the devout of any faith tradition to ask others to keep them in their prayers.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Protestants, generally speaking, are just scared to death of letting Mary in the front door. You can sometimes get some of your more high-church protestants to celebrate the feasts of the four evangelists, maybe Peter & Paul, and some of the more modern saints, but Mary just makes them quake in their boots.

I think they're afraid she'll take over.
:doh: :D

Ridiculous.
We see it as opposition in our hearts to the true God.

"I will not give my glory to another"......
I think ridiculous is too soft of a word....


.
 
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WarriorAngel

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Let me preface this by saying this is not an anti-Catholic thread. If you would like to tell Catholics, EO, or others what they believe, there are plenty of other threads for you to get closed down. Go there.

I'm posting this because I have not seen it addressed anywhere else, and I'm looking for some insight.

A little background about myself: I was raised Evangelical with a tinge of anti-RCC (My parents both come from families that could have gotten booked on Montel Williams in a heart-beat. Both families were Catholic. That is no reflection on the church, but brains make patterns...that's just what they do.)

Whenever I asked people what was 'wrong' with the RCC the answers were the same. "They worship Mary." "They pray to saints." "They kiss idols." You know the drill. It's the same as what we see on these boards all day long.

Having grown up, and subsequently gotten smacked upside the head by grace, and being no longer willing to carry my own grudges, let alone those of others, I started being able to 'hear' the real answers that Catholics and others give.

And it is those real answers that I would like to discuss.

A while back on these boards, an EO fellow (I don't remember who, but I remember he was EO because he gave me a list of 47 books to read. ;)) took the time to explain to me the idea of the communion of the saints, both physically alive and physically dead. Lovely.

And just yesterday, an RCC posted in another thread to the effect that prayers to Mary reflect Jesus' love for his mother, which we glimpse in our own love for our own mothers. Again lovely. :)

But here's what I would like to look at: When one dear woman shouted out to Jesus, “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts at which you nursed!” His response was unexpected.

He said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

And another time, when Jesus' mother and brothers came looking for him, Jesus said, "“Who are my mother and my brothers?” And looking about at those who sat around him, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! For whoever does the will of God, he is my brother and sister and mother.”"

Now Jesus was not denigrating Mary here, but rather pointing out his Father (as always) and lifting up the saints to Him. Even to the status of his mother.

The trouble I have (currently) with the idea of (me, personally) praying the rosary or kissing icons in reverence, is not that this is 'worship' or 'idolatry'. The trouble is that I do not treat any of the physically living saints with this particular 'type' of reverence.

I do not greet my brothers and sisters with a "Holy kiss". Ever. Though I love them very dearly.

I would not serenade my mother with, "My Queen, My Mother, I offer myself entirely to thee. And to show my devotion to thee, I offer thee this day, my eyes, my ears, my mouth, my heart, my whole being without reserve." Even though I love and admire her unreservedly. (And even if I did, I think she wouldn't to able to hear the end of my devoted speech over the racket of her own laughter.)

This leads me to believe that we have a culture clash on our hands, where flowery reverence to the physically dead saints became enshrined in tradition, while flowery reverence for the physically living saints went out of style with hats.

Thoughts?

Era - time - culture.

The prose for our Lady was magnificent as the earlier writers of the Church have shown.
Their reverence was much higher - due to the holiness of her office and of course because of the love they had for her Son. She was given respect - with all capital letters.

For living saints - the best account i can give - was Mother Therese was respected the world over for her work with the poor...
With one or two - maybe more - notable exceptions... who themselves live in lofty homes - made remarks that she didnt do enough. That she should have made things better instead of letting ppl die.
Well, there are so many errors in that thinking - where to begin.

I just need to be clear what your last question is concerning.

I know as soon as i press the reply button i will see terrible things said about Catholics. :thumbsup:
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Originally Posted by seeingeyes
Let me preface this by saying this is not an anti-Catholic thread. If you would like to tell Catholics, EO, or others what they believe, there are plenty of other threads for you to get closed down. Go there.
I know as soon as i press the reply button i will see terrible things said about Catholics. :thumbsup:
:D

Not from me :thumbsup:




.
 
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WarriorAngel

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:)

According to the EO's, Mary died then was assumed to have been assumed into heaven.
Whereas Roman Catholicism says she did not die and was assumed to have been assumed/raptured into heaven while still alive.
Which is it?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7694002-3/
Do Orthodox believe in the Assumption of Mary?

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Assumption of Mary

I wont leave you hanging. ;)

We believe she died and was assumed.
I have never read she was alive... so thats new to me.

She was placed in a tomb, but her body disappeared.

I have always been of the opinion that when John spoke about the good news he wanted to share face to face - he was more than likely going to talk about Mary assuming to Heaven. John was very close to Mary - since he took care of her and she of him. Having her die - would have been a fairly sad event for him. The excitement of her rising - and probably a witness to it - if she sought him out first - was worthy only of a face to face explanation with someone to share this absolutely wonderful news with.

Aside from Christ's resurrection and ascension - i cannot think of much more that would cause such elation in John as to avoid writing about some news - and rather wanting to do it in person.
Shame is - we dont know because he wanted to share it in person.
Nothing much else could be a cause for enthusiasm as that.
 
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WarriorAngel

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That doesn't relate to the issue we are discussing, however. But since you have--logically enough--turned to Scripture for resolution of the matter, note that Jesus never prayed to angels or the dead, that when he was asked by his disciples how to pray he taught them the "Our Father...." with no mention of deceased intermediaries, and there is in fact not a single instance in the New Testament of any mortal praying to the dead with Jesus's approval OR of any other reference to the practice being God-pleasing.

Jesus - as i said before - and perhaps not specifically in here - never taught His teachings per fact - only innuendo, and parable.

Here is a parable... that does show us the 'dead' those waiting in the 'jail' to be released - cannot do that themselves - so they need the only ones who can - the family still free - to make restitution.


Matthew 18
[23] Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened to a king, who would take an account of his servants. [24] And when he had begun to take the account, one was brought to him, that owed him ten thousand talents. [25] And as he had not wherewith to pay it, his lord commanded that he should be sold, and his wife and children and all that he had, and payment to be made. [26] But that servant falling down, besought him, saying: Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. [27] And the lord of that servant being moved with pity, let him go and forgave him the debt. [28] But when that servant was gone out, he found one of his fellow servants that owed him an hundred pence: and laying hold of him, throttled him, saying: Pay what thou owest. [29] And his fellow servant falling down, besought him, saying: Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. [30] And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he paid the debt.

[31] Now his fellow servants seeing what was done, were very much grieved, and they came and told their lord all that was done. [32] Then his lord called him; and said to him: Thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all the debt, because thou besoughtest me: [33] Shouldst not thou then have had compassion also on thy fellow servant, even as I had compassion on thee? [34] And his lord being angry, delivered him to the torturers until he paid all the debt. [35] So also shall my heavenly Father do to you, if you forgive not every one his brother from your hearts.


He had to pay all the debt... but was in jail...with torturers.

His debt was repaid by the wife and children being sold [prayers and penances for the dead] - the living become 'slaves' for the ded. IE - taking on prayer and penance for their behalf...so they may be released.

And of course this is 'likened' to Heaven and in hell there is no release...and Heaven is where no tears exist.... so where could it be?
 
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Albion

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Originally Posted by Albion
That doesn't relate to the issue we are discussing, however. But since you have--logically enough--turned to Scripture for resolution of the matter, note that Jesus never prayed to angels or the dead, that when he was asked by his disciples how to pray he taught them the "Our Father...." with no mention of deceased intermediaries, and there is in fact not a single instance in the New Testament of any mortal praying to the dead with Jesus's approval OR of any other reference to the practice being God-pleasing.
Jesus - as i said before - and perhaps not specifically in here - never taught His teachings per fact - only innuendo, and parable.

Here is a parable... that does show us the 'dead' those waiting in the 'jail' to be released - cannot do that themselves - so they need the only ones who can - the family still free - to make restitution.


Matthew 18
[23] Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened to a king, who would take an account of his servants. [24] And when he had begun to take the account, one was brought to him, that owed him ten thousand talents. [25] And as he had not wherewith to pay it, his lord commanded that he should be sold, and his wife and children and all that he had, and payment to be made. [26] But that servant falling down, besought him, saying: Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. [27] And the lord of that servant being moved with pity, let him go and forgave him the debt. [28] But when that servant was gone out, he found one of his fellow servants that owed him an hundred pence: and laying hold of him, throttled him, saying: Pay what thou owest. [29] And his fellow servant falling down, besought him, saying: Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. [30] And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he paid the debt.

[31] Now his fellow servants seeing what was done, were very much grieved, and they came and told their lord all that was done. [32] Then his lord called him; and said to him: Thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all the debt, because thou besoughtest me: [33] Shouldst not thou then have had compassion also on thy fellow servant, even as I had compassion on thee? [34] And his lord being angry, delivered him to the torturers until he paid all the debt. [35] So also shall my heavenly Father do to you, if you forgive not every one his brother from your hearts.


He had to pay all the debt... but was in jail...with torturers.

His debt was repaid by the wife and children being sold [prayers and penances for the dead] - the living become 'slaves' for the ded. IE - taking on prayer and penance for their behalf...so they may be released.

And of course this is 'likened' to Heaven and in hell there is no release...and Heaven is where no tears exist.... so where could it be?

Are you "proving" Purgatory?...because we were talking about praying to the dead.

While I don't dismiss your theory about parables, this one doesn't do a thing to challenge what I said in the post you are responding to. There is nothing in it that speaks to the topic we were discussing.
 
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WarriorAngel

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Matt. 18:10 - the angels in heaven always behold the face of God. We venerate them for their great dignity and union with God.
Matt. 15:4; Luke 18:20; Eph. 6:2-3 Exodus 20:12; Lev. 19:3; Deut. 5:16 - we are instructed to honor our father and mother.
Luke 1:28 - the angel Gabriel venerates Mary by declaring to her "Hail, full of grace." The heavenly angel honors the human Mary, for her perfection of grace exceeds that of the angels.
Romans 13:7 - we are to give honor where honor is due. When we honor God's children, we honor God Himself, for He is the source of all honor.
1 Cor. 4:16 - the most important form of veneration of the saints is "imitating" the saints, as Paul commands us to do.
1 Cor. 11:1 - again, Paul says, "Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ." The ultimate objective of veneration is imitation.
Phil. 2:25-29 - Paul teaches us to honor Epaprhoditus who almost died for the faith. How much more honor is owed to the saints that did die for the faith!
Phil. 3:17 - Paul says to imitate him and others, which is the goal of veneration. Veneration is not worship.
1 Thess. 1:6 – Paul says to the Thessalonians, “You became imitators of us and of the Lord.” This is the goal of veneration.
 
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Albion

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Incidentally - could you clarify for me why Jesus would have need to pray to angels?
Wasn't He in conclusion, God?

The point is that all the usual uses of Scripture leave us emptyhanded as regards the matter of praying to spirits.

From the more certain sources of guidance all the way down to the less conclusive ones, there's nothing. That should weigh heavily on anyone who is undecided about this issue, because all he's left with otherwise are much less unreliable guides like custom or our hunches.
 
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SolomonVII

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How do you know your side of the fence is the right one?

I will stick to the top of the fence right now, until ya'll clear that up, thank you :)


.

Any position that requires that we adopt faith to maintain it is a position that requires extreme humility on our behalf.

There is a reasoned faith, in which we take the facts as far as they go, and then base our leap into faith on the probable logical conclusions to that facts.
The empty tomb, reports of Jesus conquering death has Paul proclaiming that the sting has been taken out of death!, this is an example of a reasoned faith.
There is also a blind faith that is not based in any reason but is based in the personal conviction of the person holding to it. "My church is infallible because my church tells me it is infallible, and that is what I therefore believe" is an example of a blind faith. Likewise, the greater that the basis for the belief is based solely in faith, the greater the need for humility.
Then there is an unreasoned faith, the kind of faith that stands in contradiction to the facts. "Even though the furthest stars are measured in billions of years of time away from us, I believe nevertheless that the earth and universe are 5000 years old" is an example of an unreasoned faith.
Likewise, it requires the most extreme form of humility in the face of non-believers.
I don't actually advocate the agnostic position of sitting on the fence, as comfortable as that may be. Life requires a leap where we actually make a decision and live it to the best of our ability.

I think that as a Christian people, we have gotten past that point of time where we would arrogantly kill others for holding a different faith position than ourselves. Humility is a good thing.

For myself personally, a reasoned faith is the only kind that is believable to the point where I might consider living it. That there is a God and that this world is his creation is a reasonable position to hold, and it makes at least much, if not more sense than the contrary position of mindless, random generation of something from nothing.
The biography of Christ likewise, to me, is a very reasonable assumption to make based on historic sources. That he lived and was crucified, that the tomb was found empty, and that his closest friends understood him to have defeated death, are all based in the best historic data available.
That this indicates that we are given eternal life, and that Jesus was God Incarnate, is a leap of faith for sure, but it is based in bringing that best historical data to a logical conclusion of what it all means.
The ability to have a blind faith in something that is arbitrary is a faith that eludes me, but an unreasoned faith is something that I reject outright. It contradicts my understanding of God as not being an author of confusion.
 
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daydreamergurl15

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Jesus - as i said before - and perhaps not specifically in here - never taught His teachings per fact - only innuendo, and parable.

Here is a parable... that does show us the 'dead' those waiting in the 'jail' to be released - cannot do that themselves - so they need the only ones who can - the family still free - to make restitution.


Matthew 18
[23] Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened to a king, who would take an account of his servants. [24] And when he had begun to take the account, one was brought to him, that owed him ten thousand talents. [25] And as he had not wherewith to pay it, his lord commanded that he should be sold, and his wife and children and all that he had, and payment to be made. [26] But that servant falling down, besought him, saying: Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. [27] And the lord of that servant being moved with pity, let him go and forgave him the debt. [28] But when that servant was gone out, he found one of his fellow servants that owed him an hundred pence: and laying hold of him, throttled him, saying: Pay what thou owest. [29] And his fellow servant falling down, besought him, saying: Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. [30] And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he paid the debt.

[31] Now his fellow servants seeing what was done, were very much grieved, and they came and told their lord all that was done. [32] Then his lord called him; and said to him: Thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all the debt, because thou besoughtest me: [33] Shouldst not thou then have had compassion also on thy fellow servant, even as I had compassion on thee? [34] And his lord being angry, delivered him to the torturers until he paid all the debt. [35] So also shall my heavenly Father do to you, if you forgive not every one his brother from your hearts.


He had to pay all the debt... but was in jail...with torturers.

His debt was repaid by the wife and children being sold [prayers and penances for the dead] - the living become 'slaves' for the ded. IE - taking on prayer and penance for their behalf...so they may be released.

And of course this is 'likened' to Heaven and in hell there is no release...and Heaven is where no tears exist.... so where could it be?

Can you do us a favor, can you actually point to the actual verse(s) that shows that the "dead" is in jail until all debts are paid because I got a completely different understanding when I read Matthew 18:23-35.

As I was reading this, it struck me as, I need to forgive others as God have forgiven me. I didn't come to the understanding of in jail until debt is paid, so I would really like to understand where you are coming from.
 
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steve_bakr

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Any position that requires that we adopt faith to maintain it is a position that requires extreme humility on our behalf.

There is a reasoned faith, in which we take the facts as far as they go, and then base our leap into faith on the probable logical conclusions to that faith.
The empty tomb, reports of Jesus conquering death has Paul proclaiming that the sting has been taken out of death!, this is an example of a reasoned faith.
There is also a blind faith that is not based in any reason but is based in the personal conviction of the person holding to it. "My church is infallible because my church tells me it is infallible, and that is what I therefore believe" is an example of a blind faith. Likewise, the greater that the basis for the belief is based solely in faith, the greater the need for humility.
Then there is an unreasoned faith, the kind of faith that stands in contradiction to the facts. "Even though the furthest stars are measured in billions of years of time away from us, I believe nevertheless that the earth and universe are 5000 years old" is an example of an unreasoned faith.
Likewise, it requires the most extreme form of humility in the face of non-believers.
I don't actually advocate the agnostic position of sitting on the fence, as comfortable as that may be. Life requires a leap where we actually make a decision and live it to the best of our ability.

I think that as a Christian people, we have gotten past that point of time where we would arrogantly kill others for holding a different faith position than ourselves. Humility is a good thing.

For myself personally, a reasoned faith is the only kind that is believable to the point where I might consider living it. That there is a God and that this world is his creation is a reasonable position to hold, and it makes at least much, if not more sense than the contrary position of random generation.
The biography of Christ likewise, to me, is a very reasonable assumption to make based on historic sources. That he lived and was crucified, that the tomb was found empty, and that his closest friends understood him to have defeated death, are all based in the best historic data available.
That this indicates that we are given eternal life, and that Jesus was God Incarnate, is a leap of faith for sure, but it is based in bringing that best historical data to a logical conclusion of what it all means.
The ability to have a blind faith in something that is arbitrary is a faith that eludes me, but an unreasoned faith is something that I reject outright. It contradicts my understanding of God as not being an author of confusion.

The "infallibility of the Church" could be the subject of discussion in itself. My understanding follows John Henry Newman in that the Church is ultimately inerrant based on Christ's institution of the Church through Peter and the disciples, and the gift of the Holy Spirit to guide the Church.

Does this mean that the Church will never make a mistake? Newman's answer is no. However we parse it, history shows us that there have been mistakes. (Whether those mistakes have been made by the Church or by men in the Church is an important distinction to make) At any rate, Newman says that ultimately the Church is inerrant in that it corrects itself if it starts to go off course.

This may not be the prevailing Catholic view, but Newman tells the story about a time when the concensus of bishops was dangerously approaching Arianism. He argues that the sense of the faithful (sensus fidelium) helped to keep the Church on course.

I believe in a Church that examines itself and is forever in a state of reform. Never should the Church trap itself into such a defensive state that it can never admit and ammend mistakes. But ultimately, the Spirit of Christ will guide his Church inerrantly.

Catholics are obliged to give assent to the Church's teachings. That is a Catholic principle of faith. But as some--like Cardinal Ratzinger--have said, there is that sacrosanct center of man's basic identity called his conscience. Although this conscience is to be formed by the Church, there is still that aspect of conscience wherein nothing stands between its own responsibility to God, not even ecclesiastical authority. The role of conscience is another subject which could stand on its own.

BTW, I just came out of yet another Catholic vs Protestant thread that got closed down. So, I would like to acknowledge your post as an example of how discussion ought to take place. It is well reasoned and it challenges us without attacking us.
 
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daydreamergurl15

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It's not idolatry:



But IMO You can't pray others than Mary to intercede:



I've learned to pray to Mary sometimes but I pray to Jesus at the same time.

Why do we pray to Mary for intercession when we know that's the Holy Spirit's job?
Romans 8:26-31
26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.
27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.​

Why do we think Mary is our Mediator when we are told that there is only one Mediator between God and man?
1 Timothy 2:5-7
5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.
7 For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

I don't know if this is wrong but aren't we supposed to be praying to God the Father?
Matthew 6:7-15
7 "And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words.
8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
9 Pray then like this: "Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name.
10 Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread,
12 and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
14 For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you,
15 but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Again, I don't know if it's wrong to pray to Christ because after all He is God, but I think it's weird because we usually close the prayer "In Jesus name".

Colosians 3:17
And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.
 
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PaladinValer

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Why do we pray to Mary for intercession when we know that's the Holy Spirit's job?
Romans 8:26-31
26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.
27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.​
Why do we think Mary is our Mediator when we are told that there is only one Mediator between God and man?
1 Timothy 2:5-7
5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.
7 For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
I don't know if this is wrong but aren't we supposed to be praying to God the Father?
Matthew 6:7-15
7 "And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words.
8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
9 Pray then like this: "Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name.
10 Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread,
12 and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
14 For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you,
15 but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Again, I don't know if it's wrong to pray to Christ because after all He is God, but I think it's weird because we usually close the prayer "In Jesus name".
Colosians 3:17
And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

Look up the word "intercede"; what does it mean?

When you pray for another, you are interceding, so obviously, you're interpretation must be wrong because otherwise, you sin against God each time you pray for someone else.

Therefore, the intercession that Jesus does must be unique or otherwise, the Bible contradicts itself when it tells us to pray for one another. And in orthodox Christianity, it is believed that Jesus' intercession is unique in that only Jesus can intercede on our behalf for salvation.

Of course, that opens up the fact that now all other forms of intercession are allowed, and since God is a God of the living and not the dead, that means the Saints, the righteous souls, and the Heavenly Host can pray for us and we for them.

And to be preemptive, look up the word "mediator" as well; you'll see my argument applies for that word as well.
 
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