Something About Mary

[steve_bakr]

Here are my points of emphasis:

A. The Scripture is what governs this issue.

B. Nowhere in it does Jesus pray to spirits, advocate doing so, or is there any other place in the New Testament that recommends the practice.

C. It is so obvious that one's neighbor is not the equivalent of the soul of one who has died and gone to the afterlife that we cannot seriously think that the admonition to us mortals to pray for each other applies to necromancy, spiritism, or any appeals to the (physically) dead.

D. We have reason to believe that angels and spirits pray FOR us, but that is not the same as praying TO them.

I see things the Catholic way, of course, but your position is well reasoned and deserves consideration. Personally, my position is that veneration of Saints comes largely from Tradition rather than Scripture. But there is that part in Acts where people were handing around a cloth touched by Paul and being healed.

 

[Albion]

I see things the Catholic way, of course, but your position is well reasoned and deserves consideration. Personally, my position is that veneration of Saints comes largely from Tradition rather than Scripture. But there is that part in Acts where people were handing around a cloth touched by Paul and being healed.

Thank you for understanding. As for Paul and the cloths, I personally find that passage of scripture kinda weird, but if it is relevant to ourselves, wouldn't that support the use of relics, NOT prayer to spirits?

 

[steve_bakr]

When you find anything in the NT stating that we are EVER dead in Christ...get back to me

I think the dead were originally referred to as "sleeping." But later, Paul says that to be absent from the body is to be [alive] with Christ.

 

[simonthezealot]

Did you read the OP?

Despite my flagrant abuse of a pop culture reference in the title, this thread is about what difference there is (or what difference there should be) between how we 'treat' the saints who have passed (including Mary) and how we 'treat' the saints still standing here now.

What are your thoughts?

Past: respect them for how God used them for His glory, to honor His purposes, according to His will...
Anything more becomes idolatry and necromancy.

Present: the order goes like this... He answered, "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

 

[steve_bakr]

Thank you for understanding. As for Paul and the cloths, I personally find that passage of scripture kinda weird, but if it is relevant to ourselves, wouldn't that support the use of relics, NOT prayer to spirits?

Yes, you're right.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Assumption of Mary - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If I am wrong...where is it?

Sorry?

According to the EO's, Mary died then was assumed to have been assumed into heaven.
Whereas Roman Catholicism says she did not die and was assumed to have been assumed/raptured into heaven while still alive.
Which is it?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7694002-3/
Do Orthodox believe in the Assumption of Mary?

We believe in the Dormition and then Assumption. ie, we believe the Virgin Mary died and then was assumed into heaven. This is what many Catholics believe, as well, but some Catholics believe she was assumed into heaven without dying (we do not believe that).

what gzt said. you will usually hear it called her Dormition and her bodily translation, because she had died.

 

[simonthezealot]

The flat out ignorance of the majority of the posters in these types of threads botherz me...

So your another one of those people who offers two cents and takes back a penny.
You accuse me of ignorance but in your ignorance you never pointed out why you'd suggest that this is an ignorant comment...So instead of making any kind of point you went for a character attack on me instead, NO fears i'm thick skinned, but you've shown true ignorance in posting a vacant comment with nothing but personal attack.

 

[Defensor Christi]

Yep, botherz me to see the non-biblical nearly deistic identity of the catholic version of Mary getting any front page news.

So your another one of those people who offers two cents and takes back a penny.
You accuse me of ignorance but in your ignorance you never pointed out why you'd suggest that this is an ignorant comment...So instead of making any kind of point you went for a character attack on me instead, NO fears i'm thick skinned, but you've shown true ignorance in posting a vacant comment with nothing but personal attack.

Dear Pot....meet Kettle...Kind Kettle....meet pot...LOL!!!

 

[Defensor Christi]

According to the EO's, Mary died then was assumed to have been assumed into heaven.
Whereas Roman Catholicism says she did not die and was assumed to have been assumed/raptured into heaven while still alive.
Which is it?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7694002-3/
Do Orthodox believe in the Assumption of Mary?

I think you know which side of the fence I stand...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The flat out ignorance of the majority of the posters in these types of threads botherz me...

So your another one of those people who offers two cents and takes back a penny.

You accuse me of ignorance but in your ignorance you never pointed out why you'd suggest that this is an ignorant comment...So instead of making any kind of point you went for a character attack on me instead, NO fears i'm thick skinned, but you've shown true ignorance in posting a vacant comment with nothing but personal attack.

Seems he was generalizing, which could also imply some of those posters include RCs



.

 

[Cappadocious]

"The gatekeepers of Hades tremble as they behold me, clothed in the bloodstained garment of vengeance: for on the Cross as God I have struck down mine enemies...

Let the creation rejoice exceedingly, let all those born on earth be glad: for Death, the enemy, has been despoiled. Ye women, come to meet me with sweet spices: for I am delivering Adam and Eve with all their offspring, and on the third day I shall rise again."

-Paschal nocturnes

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus


According to the EO's, Mary died then was assumed to have been assumed into heaven.
Whereas Roman Catholicism says she did not die and was assumed to have been assumed/raptured into heaven while still alive.
Which is it?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7694002-3/
Do Orthodox believe in the Assumption of Mary?

I think you know which side of the fence I stand...

How do you know your side of the fence is the right one?

I will stick to the top of the fence right now, until ya'll clear that up, thank you


.

 

[Defensor Christi]

How do you know your side of the fence is the right one?

I suppose that is a question each of us should ask ourselves, and not just regarding this topic...

 

[PaladinValer]

Since you got almost everything wrong in that reply that it is possible to get wrong, maybe you should let me speak for myself hereafter.

You are no longer a member of that church? Last time, you were; I do note you've dropped your Anglican icon, which is admittedly for Anglicans, Continuers, and groups like AMiA and ACNA...perhaps I should not have assumed that you didn't leave Anglicanism by a switch to a generic icon? I really, truly, honestly don't know; please enlighten.

In any event, I have shown that your views are not representative of Anglicanism even in STR, most especially Saintly veneration and rosaries (but they do represent the REC), so my major point does stand water.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus
How do you know your side of the fence is the right one?

I suppose that is a question each of us should ask ourselves, and not just regarding this topic...

Good dodge....


.

 

[Defensor Christi]

Good dodge....

One man's dodge is another man's logic...

PS I can smell bait a mile away

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

One man's dodge is another man's logic...

PS I can smell bait a mile away

Likewise


.

 

[simonthezealot]

Dear Pot....meet Kettle...Kind Kettle....meet pot...LOL!!!

PMK? how do you figure.
I explained your ignorance, you on the other hand obfuscated.
LOL SMH
These are suppose to be debate/conversation threads you offer neither.

 

[revanneosl]

Protestants, generally speaking, are just scared to death of letting Mary in the front door. You can sometimes get some of your more high-church protestants to celebrate the feasts of the four evangelists, maybe Peter & Paul, and some of the more modern saints, but Mary just makes them quake in their boots.

I think they're afraid she'll take over.

 

[George95]

I personally feel that Mary is of importance, in that she brought The Lord into the world, and she was picked by God especially. I've heard people say anyone could have bore Christ, but I believe differently.