Something About Mary

[Root of Jesse]

So true.

I wonder if, in response to vitriol, it wouldn't be a better rejoinder to say "We treat all the saints with the same reverence", rather than trying to explain how 'poetic' language is not 'worship'.

May I ask, do you personally feel revered as the saints before you? (Not that one should seek out reverence, but I'm asking if the culture of reverence in the church differentiates between those here now and those passed on.)

The thing is, we don't give Mary the same reverence as other saints, because she's the mother of God. That gives her special pride of place. All other saints were sinners who persevered. There are three Greek words we use
dulia-respect for the saints, reverence for the saints

hyper-dulia-respect/reverence for Mary

latria-worship reserved for God alone.

 

[sunlover1]

I'm not one for yammering to those who have passed, myself. But, like you, I don't seem to mind yammering to God and having him pass along the message.

Perhaps you can see how slight the difference really is. Both ideas presume that there is someone, other than God and other than breathing folks, who are capable of 'receiving' a message.

Yeah, perhaps He gives the message, perhaps not.
But there certainly is a divide between the spiritual realm and
the physical realm, and God is the only one who's omnipresent.

Insisting that someone else draw a line between those two at the same place that I do seems rather arbitrary, so I'd rather err on the side of grace in the matter.

I don't feel that speaking the truth is erring.
There is "one" mediator between God and man,
that's JEsus Christ.

Thank you for not insisting that i draw the line the same places you do.

 

[simonthezealot]

Isaiah 42:8
I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

 

[simonthezealot]

Isaiah 42:8
I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

This is inline with Church teachings...so I dont see your point...

Riggghht!
The fact that it is taught of her that she is sinless gives glory to another and subtracts from the distinctiveness of Christ himself.
The actions speak louder than any words.

 

[simonthezealot]

The Lord gives widom to all who ask, why in the world would one involve themselves in necromancy with great promises like this??
James 1:5 (ESV)
5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him.

​

 

[Defensor Christi]

Riggghht!
The fact that it is taught of her that she is sinless gives glory to another and subtracts from the distinctiveness of Christ himself.
The actions speak louder than any words.

To whom does it give glory? How does it subtract from Christ? Again...you are showing a clear ignorance of Catholic Doctrine...

 

[Defensor Christi]

The Lord gives widom to all who ask, why in the world would one involve themselves in necromancy with great promises like this??
James 1:5 (ESV)
5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him.

Again...necromancy involves the dead...when are we dead in Christ?

 

[Defensor Christi]

If I'm not mistaken, there are a few prayers to Mary that aren't asking for her intercession but for grace from her. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm certain I've read a few like that. Forgive me for not being able to quote them as it was pretty much in passing.

Any graces given are from her Son...She merits nothing on her own...that is what people miss...

Mary: "Full of Grace" | Catholic Answers

1) Mary only a creature, but it was appropriate that God be freely choose her as Mediatrix because he had made her Mother of the God-man, the Redeemer--it was she who on behalf of the whole human race consented to God's plan of salvation by proclaiming herself the handmaid of the Lord. 2) Her role was not necessary, since Christ was and is the perfect Redeemer and the perfect Mediator. Rather, Mary was associated with her Son by the free decision of the Father, a decision which we cannot ignore. 3) Her whole ability to do anything comes entirely from her Son.

Mary, Mediatrix of All Graces

 

[simonthezealot]

Again...necromancy involves the dead...when are we dead in Christ?

If Christ was the firstborn of the DEAD, what does that make every regenerate Christian after that?
LOL

You guys and your semantic word game mental gymnastic approach to apologetics makes me laugh.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Riggghht!
The fact that it is taught of her that she is sinless gives glory to another and subtracts from the distinctiveness of Christ himself.
The actions speak louder than any words.

Actually, it does not do this. Mary was born sinless as a gift from God. Jesus was born sinless because he is God.

 

[Stryder06]

Any graces given are from her Son...She merits nothing on her own...that is what people miss...

Mary: "Full of Grace" | Catholic Answers

1) Mary only a creature, but it was appropriate that God be freely choose her as Mediatrix because he had made her Mother of the God-man, the Redeemer--it was she who on behalf of the whole human race consented to God's plan of salvation by proclaiming herself the handmaid of the Lord. 2) Her role was not necessary, since Christ was and is the perfect Redeemer and the perfect Mediator. Rather, Mary was associated with her Son by the free decision of the Father, a decision which we cannot ignore. 3) Her whole ability to do anything comes entirely from her Son.

Mary, Mediatrix of All Graces

Anyone's ability to do anything comes from the Son. No offense but this doesn't help considering the prayers of dedication to her, and the ones asking for protection. Much of what is asked of her is the perogative of Christ and the Holy Spirit.

 

[simonthezealot]

Actually, it does not do this. Mary was born sinless as a gift from God. Jesus was born sinless because he is God.

Romans 3:23
For ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

 

[Defensor Christi]

If Christ was the firstborn of the DEAD, what does that make every regenerate Christian after that?
LOL

You guys and your semantic word game mental gymnastic approach to apologetics makes me laugh.

Romans 3:23
For ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

If ALL means ALL...then that includes the Lord...

You guys and your semantic word game mental gymnastic approach to apologetics makes me laugh...

 

[Defensor Christi]

Anyone's ability to do anything comes from the Son. No offense but this doesn't help considering the prayers of dedication to her, and the ones asking for protection. Much of what is asked of her is the perogative of Christ and the Holy Spirit.

That is why you look to the power of intercessory prayer and the Blessed Virgin's unique role...

Once you understand that the Catholic position on the Blessed Virgin and the Saints does not violate any type of commandments...it is easier to understand...

 

[Defensor Christi]

If Christ was the firstborn of the DEAD, what does that make every regenerate Christian after that?
LOL.

So you believe that we are dead in Christ...and Catholic Theology is amiss? To quote you, "riiiiiiight"

 

[Lion King]

Romans 3:23
For ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

inb4 someone uses Jesus as an example to prove that "all" doesn't really mean "all" in that above quote.

inb4 someone brings up Mat 14:35 and Luke 21:38 to prove that "all" doesn't always mean "all" in that above passage.


EDIT: too late.

 

[sunlover1]

If ALL means ALL...then that includes the Lord...

But God is not included in any of the instructions to us mortals.

All mortals (except mary) have sinned?

inb4 someone uses Jesus as an example to prove that "all" doesn't really mean "all" in that above quote.

inb4 someone brings up Mat 14:35 and Luke 21:38 to prove that "all" doesn't always mean "all" in that above passage.


EDIT: too late.

And until doesn't mean until either,
(matt 1:25)
just sayin'

 

[Lion King]

And until doesn't mean until either,
(matt 1:25)
just sayin'

And brother doesn't always mean brother either (Matthew 12:46, Galatians 1:19).

Just saying.

 

[Defensor Christi]

But God is not included in any of the instructions to us mortals.

All mortals (except mary) have sinned?


And until doesn't mean until either,
(matt 1:25)
just sayin'

So...St. Paul meant All mortals have sinned? Because that isnt what he wrote...now you are applying apologetic gymnastics to fit your theological stance...

Are you saying it isnt possible for God to make someone sinless?

 

[Defensor Christi]

And brother doesn't always mean brother either (Matthew 12:46, Galatians 1:19).

Just saying.