Something About Mary

[Cappadocious]

excessive devotion towards the dead

Who are these dead?

 

[Defensor Christi]

I don't see, at present, how excessive devotion towards the dead either promotes or discourages relationships with other members of the congregation.

Oh, when exactly are we ever dead in Christ?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

This belongs in the Mariology forum.

Ya think?






.

 

[simonthezealot]

Ya think?

Yep, botherz me to see the non-biblical nearly deistic identity of the catholic version of Mary getting any front page news.

 

[Cappadocious]

What we end up with, then, is people making effusive prayers and declarations to statues and pictures of the saints and Mary ...and then turning around and giving Old Joe a handshake and a "Good morning".

Ever been to one of our liturgies in English?

 

[Cappadocious]

Yep, botherz me to see the non-biblical nearly deistic identity of the catholic version of Mary

She's seen as a distant, non-interfering monad?

 

[seeingeyes]

Yep, botherz me to see the non-biblical nearly deistic identity of the catholic version of Mary getting any front page news.

Did you read the OP?

Despite my flagrant abuse of a pop culture reference in the title, this thread is about what difference there is (or what difference there should be) between how we 'treat' the saints who have passed (including Mary) and how we 'treat' the saints still standing here now.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Defensor Christi]

Yep, botherz me to see the non-biblical nearly deistic identity of the catholic version of Mary getting any front page news.

The flat out ignorance of the majority of the posters in these types of threads botherz me...

 

[Defensor Christi]

Did you read the OP?

Despite my flagrant abuse of a pop culture reference in the title, this thread is about what difference there is (or what difference there should be) between how we 'treat' the saints who have passed (including Mary) and how we 'treat' the saints still standing here now.

What are your thoughts?

Good question...

How are those Saints that are in the presence of God different from those of us on earth?

 

[Albion]

Good question...

How are those Saints that are in the presence of God different from those of us on earth?

.

They're spirits.

 

[Defensor Christi]

.

They're spirits.

Is that it?

 

[Albion]

Is that it?

Isn't that one sufficient to disprove the notion that they are exactly the same as us, leading to the theory that praying to them is no different from asking a neighbor to pray for us?

 

[Defensor Christi]

Isn't that one sufficient to disprove the notion that they are exactly the same as us, leading to the theory that praying to them is no different from asking a neighbor to pray for us?

I am not saying they are exactly the same as us...perhaps you are confused...

No, they are in fact VERY different from us...

 

[Albion]

I am not saying they are exactly the same as us...No, they are in fact VERY different from us...

Very well. Then there is no argument from Scripture that praying to them is acceptable to God.

 

[PaladinValer]

Correct me...dont Anglican pray rosaries? Dont they have the same statues of the Virgin as Catholics?

Albion isn't a member of the Anglican Communion but the Reformed Episcopal Church, which is a schism.

Anglicans do recite the Marian rosary and we have our own rosary as well. The Reformed Episcopal Church doesn't typically have a high view on such practice whereas in Anglicanism, it is fine.

 

[seeingeyes]

.

They're spirits.

Jesus didn't seem to think that distinction was so important in this case:

"But that the dead are raised, even Moses showed, in the passage about the bush, where he calls the Lord the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living, for all live to him.” (Luke 20)

 

[Albion]

Jesus didn't seem to think that distinction was so important in this case:

"But that the dead are raised, even Moses showed, in the passage about the bush, where he calls the Lord the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living, for all live to him.” (Luke 20)

That doesn't relate to the issue we are discussing, however. But since you have--logically enough--turned to Scripture for resolution of the matter, note that Jesus never prayed to angels or the dead, that when he was asked by his disciples how to pray he taught them the "Our Father...." with no mention of deceased intermediaries, and there is in fact not a single instance in the New Testament of any mortal praying to the dead with Jesus's approval OR of any other reference to the practice being God-pleasing.

 

[Defensor Christi]

Very well. Then there is no argument from Scripture that praying to them is acceptable to God.

Incorrect...again.

My point is, they differ from us because they are WITHOUT sin...they are incapable of sin, because they are in the very presence of God! They enjoy the beatific vision...

Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective (James 5:16)

How much more then SHOULD we ask the Saints in heaven to intercede for us?

 

[Defensor Christi]

Albion isn't a member of the Anglican Communion but the Reformed Episcopal Church, which is a schism.

Anglicans do recite the Marian rosary and we have our own rosary as well. The Reformed Episcopal Church doesn't typically have a high view on such practice whereas in Anglicanism, it is fine.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up!! Much appreciated!!

 

[seeingeyes]

Ever been to one of our liturgies in English?

No I have not. (The closest EO church is actually quite far from here.)