Something About Mary

[Lion King]

She was still special though.

I'm not Catholic, I just see her as having been special. The prophets were special, Job was special, Mary was special.

Yeah, she was. However, there is no reason to behave as this woman did.

As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.”

He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.” Luke 11:27-28

 

[Thekla]

Yeah, she was. However, there is no reason to behave as this woman did.

As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.”

He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.” Luke 11:27-28

Mary surely did hear the word of God and keep it; this is in addition to the OT blessing of the womb and breasts - Gen.49:26, several mentions in Deuteronomy (of the womb specifically). (Menoume/rather/indeed is not a rebut but 'yes further/moreso -- in Mary's case the first blessing is the result of the second, the hearing and keeping.)

 

[Lion King]

Mary surely did hear the word of God and keep it; this is in addition to the OT blessing of the womb and breasts - Gen.49:26, several mentions in Deuteronomy (of the womb specifically). (Menoume/rather/indeed is not a rebut but 'yes further/moreso -- in Mary's case the first blessing is the result of the second, the hearing and keeping.)

Yeah, everyone who hears and does what the LORD commands is blessed as Mary was.

Now therefore listen to me, O you children: for blessed are they that keep my ways. Proverbs 8:32

 

[Rhamiel]

also she was blessed by Elisabeth

 

[Thekla]

Yeah, everyone who hears and does what the LORD commands is blessed as Mary was.

Now therefore listen to me, O you children: for blessed are they that keep my ways. Proverbs 8:32

Only one was called to give her flesh for the incarnation of the Logos - which happened once for all eternity.

The greatest prophet was (according to Christ) John the Baptist. Likewise the Beatitudes present a "ladder" of spiritual maturity, a ladder of ascending humility/self emptying. There is not the same sense of "equality" of blessedness in the Scriptures.

We observe and desire the spiritual maturity of those who did much in Christ (the prophets, David, Moses, Mary, Paul, etc.); and we are all called to a particular task, given talents for these, and are not to hide them but grow in them. Mary did far more than most Christians; it is her turn of the entire person to God that her flesh was taken on by Christ, and that His plan for us is fulfilled. Ie, it is her humility/self-emptying that is the example God gives to us as gift in the human - her human example. Until we reach that "level" of humility, of faith/trust, I don't think we can begin to be called equally blessed.

In honoring Mary, we honor God's method for our salvation. His method is His will. His method willed for His plan to be enacted in Mary.

 

[Lion King]

Only one was called to give her flesh for the incarnation of the Logos - which happened once for all eternity.

The greatest prophet was (according to Christ) John the Baptist. Likewise the Beatitudes present a "ladder" of spiritual maturity, a ladder of ascending humility/self emptying. There is not the same sense of "equality" of blessedness in the Scriptures.

We observe and desire the spiritual maturity of those who did much in Christ (the prophets, David, Moses, Mary, Paul, etc.); and we are all called to a particular task, given talents for these, and are not to hide them but grow in them. Mary did far more than most Christians; it is her turn of the entire person to God that her flesh was taken on by Christ, and that His plan for us is fulfilled. Ie, it is her humility/self-emptying that is the example God gives to us as gift in the human - her human example. Until we reach that "level" of humility, of faith/trust, I don't think we can begin to be called equally blessed.

In honoring Mary, we honor God's method for our salvation. His method is His will. His method willed for His plan to be enacted in Mary.

Actually, I have no objections with people honoring Mary, Abraham, David, Moses, Elijah etc for all they have given in the service of the LORD.

And we urge you, brethren, to recognize those who labor among you, and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, and to esteem them very highly in love for their work’s sake. Be at peace among yourselves. 1 Thessalonians 5:12-13

By the way, if you are gonna include Mary in God's plan for salvation, then surely, you have to include Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Elijah, David, Solomon etc as well?

 

[Cappadocious]

By the way, if you are gonna include Mary in God's plan for salvation, then surely, you have to include Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Elijah, David, Solomon etc as well?

We do.

 

[Thekla]

Actually, I have no objections with people honoring Mary, Abraham, David, Moses, Elijah etc for all they have given in the service of the LORD.

And we urge you, brethren, to recognize those who labor among you, and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, and to esteem them very highly in love for their work’s sake. Be at peace among yourselves. 1 Thessalonians 5:12-13

By the way, if you are gonna include Mary in God's plan for salvation, then surely, you have to include Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Elijah, David, Solomon etc as well?

Yes

 

[Albion]

Actually, I have no objections with people honoring Mary, Abraham, David, Moses, Elijah etc for all they have given in the service of the LORD.

And we urge you, brethren, to recognize those who labor among you, and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, and to esteem them very highly in love for their work’s sake. Be at peace among yourselves. 1 Thessalonians 5:12-13

If only that verse had anything to do with your comment...you'd really have something, wouldn't you?

 

[Rev Randy]

Actually, I have no objections with people honoring Mary, Abraham, David, Moses, Elijah etc for all they have given in the service of the LORD.

And we urge you, brethren, to recognize those who labor among you, and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, and to esteem them very highly in love for their work’s sake. Be at peace among yourselves. 1 Thessalonians 5:12-13

By the way, if you are gonna include Mary in God's plan for salvation, then surely, you have to include Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Elijah, David, Solomon etc as well?

And the Saints as well.

 

[Stryder06]

That is why you look to the power of intercessory prayer and the Blessed Virgin's unique role...

What power and what unique role does she serve? No matter how you slice it, asking Mary to protect you and guide you is ascribing to her power and responsibility that belongs to God.

Once you understand that the Catholic position on the Blessed Virgin and the Saints does not violate any type of commandments...it is easier to understand...

Actually, I'd have to get past the whole living dead thing first.

 

[Rev Randy]

What power and what unique role does she serve? No matter how you slice it, asking Mary to protect you and guide you is ascribing to her power and responsibility that belongs to God.




Actually, I'd have to get past the whole living dead thing first.

I understand your dilemma. If I believed in soul sleep I'd also have an issue with this. Thankfully I do not.

 

[Stryder06]

I understand your dilemma. If I believed in soul sleep I'd also have an issue with this. Thankfully I do not.

That's just the first hurdle. I'd be hard pressed to believe in kissing a stone statues feet, or paying to a painting.

 

[Lion King]

If only that verse had anything to do with your comment...you'd really have something, wouldn't you?

1. Do you have a problem with folks honoring the holy-men and women of old?
2. Since you claim I have used 1 Thessalonians 5:12-13 out of context, can you please tell us what it truly means?

 

[Albion]

1. Do you have a problem with folks honoring the holy-men and women of old?

Not in the least. That has nothing to do with the topic here, though.

2. Since you claim I have used 1 Thessalonians 5:12-13 out of context, can you please tell us what it truly means?

In case there is any problem understanding my comment, the verse deals with those who "labor AMONG you," i.e. your neighbors--NOT those who have passed into the afterlife.

 

[Lion King]

Not in the least. That has nothing to do with the topic here, though.

What is the topic? Is it not about Mary? If so, How have I deviated from the topic if I say I honor Mary and all the saints?

In case there is any problem understanding my comment, the verse deals with those who "labor AMONG you," i.e. your neighbors--NOT those who have passed into the afterlife.

So, once they have passed on they are not to be honored no more?

If that's the case, someone should remove Hebrews 11 from the Scriptures, because we cannot be honoring people who are dead.

 

[Albion]

What is the topic? Is it not about Mary? If so, How have I deviated from the topic if I say I honor Mary and all the saints?

Honoring our forefathers and mothers in the faith is one thing. Trying to morph that innocent and commendable practice into the worship of the dead or a supposed "proof" of the Immaculate Conception--and justifying such by making out that they're the same thing--is what i was pointing to as a disconnect.

So, once they have passed on they are not to be honored no more?

I just answered that above.

 

[seeingeyes]

What is the topic? Is it not about Mary? If so, How have I deviated from the topic if I say I honor Mary and all the saints?

Actually, the topic is whether you honor the breathing saints with the same honor that you give to the no-longer-breathing saints.

 

[Lion King]

Honoring our forefathers and mothers in the faith is one thing. Trying to morph that innocent and commendable practice into the worship of the dead or a supposed "proof" of the Immaculate Conception--and justifying such by making out that they're the same thing--is what i was pointing to as a disconnect.


I just answered that above.

I'm still trying to understand how the highlighted part fits in with what i said about honoring Abraham, David, Isaiah, Mary etc?

I only said I honor them, not worship or anything like that.

 

[Albion]

I only said I honor them, not worship or anything like that.

Then, if I misunderstood your meaning, I apologize.