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Some Thoughts On McConnell

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by mark46, Jan 13, 2021 at 9:39 AM.

  1. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    McConnell has his legacy and the interests of the Senate as his priorities.

    I would argue that he has done very well. He opposed Obama, and still much legislation passed. It can be argued that his opposition prevented the left from passing their legislation. He greatly disliked Trump, and certainly does so now. He got what he could out the very unstable president.

    Most importantly to McConnell, he almost singlehandedly changed the Supreme Court and other courts for DECADES.

    LET US DISCUSS THE TIME SINCE THE ELECTION
    McConnell knew it was over within a week, at the same time as CNN or the other networks. That was NOT his immediate concern.

    His primary concern was the outcome of elections in Georgia. As far as actions, he had no good choices. Trump's actions were a definite negative, but he needed a large turnout of Trump's base. It seems likely that opposing the president would have further depressed the turnout of Trump's base. McConnell towed the line in the hope that one of the seats could be saved. It was indeed close.

    The insurrection was the day after the election. From a pure mainstream Republican position, it is after the election that McConnell's actions should be evaluated.

    BOTTOM LINE
    What has McConnell done since the election was decided on the day of the insurrection?

    Well, he has said that Trump has committed impeachable actions. McConnell's wife resigned from Trump's cabinet.

    We will see whether he votes for impeachment. In any case, I expect that Biden will find a way to pass several pieces of key legislation this year, with the cooperation of McConnell.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021 at 10:57 AM
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  2. essentialsaltes

    essentialsaltes Stranger in a Strange Land

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    Trump and McConnell still have not spoken since last Wednesday's riot, a separate source familiar with the matter confirmed to CNN. Another source said the two men haven't spoken since McConnell's floor speech acknowledging Biden as President-elect in December.

    McConnell couldn't get Trump on the phone when he refused to sign the stimulus bill over the Christmas week, a third source told CNN. McConnell has since told others in the wake of the stimulus circus he won't talk to Trump again.

    McConnell has been steadily moving his conference away from Trump for weeks. While he knows they all aren't there with him, the Kentucky Republican believes the party needs to turn the page.

    Several GOP sources said on Tuesday that if McConnell supports conviction, Trump almost certainly will be convicted by 67 senators in the impeachment trial.

    "If Mitch is a yes, he's done," said one Senate GOP source who asked not to be named.
     
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  3. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    About this one important aspect you raised, I think it's more of an open question: I know this idea it's some profound change is the common thought many say. But... someone like Kavanaugh or Gorsuch, or Bennett -- they are as likely as not, more likely than not really, to have integrity generally (most or even almost always I'd expect) and would be reasonably expected to consistently rule according to the Constitution in a mostly reasonable way. At least, not a partisan way. (this is the reasonable expectation ahead of time, and so far I've not seen something yet to make me think otherwise, though I didn't examine a lot, but just a dozen or so things in the news)

    Consider: on this election they certainly seemed fair/correct, we would agree? They haven't tried to usurp the election nor given that any cover or partial justification to those efforts, but have instead upheld the Constitutional process even just by not speaking otherwise.

    But I think there is more than this one good we can expect from them. Remember, chief justice Roberts was nominated by Bush.

    Don't you agree that Roberts is showing an even handed fairness, mostly? I'd not guess too much ahead of time about how these 3 new members will rule(!)....

    Just my 2 cents. :)
     
  4. Jamsie

    Jamsie Well-Known Member Supporter

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    As a brief aside from one of your comments - I believe you will find that mcconnell got very little done and in fact was the greatest obstructionist in history. Also, he opposed Obama for all the wrong reasons ...
    Obama Is a Republican | The American Conservative

    The general tone of republicans in both houses:
    MULVANEY: "Well, we didn’t get very much done. Listen, I’ll be the first to admit that when the tea party wave, of which I was one, got here in 2011, the last thing we were interested in was giving President Obama legislative successes."
    *****

    Otherwise I mostly agree as many republicans, especially mcconnell, are realizing that their actions will provide a legacy ... and most assuredly a very negative view by historians and such. Clearly mcconnell is a political animal and his calculations are to serve him, and party!
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021 at 11:01 AM
  5. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    McConnell, whom I thought had done a serious wrong to prevent Merrick Garland from even being allowed to be considered in 2016, for 9 months(!)....that was not in accord with the real intent of the Constitution.

    But, though he's far from perfect, he does have a certain set of principles of his own it seems, that he is seeming to follow, and that's...not the worst possible scenario when some of the principles are right. To have some principles, follow them, and some of them to be right ones, that's far from the worst case.
     
  6. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    Good point that Obama was very much like a moderate or even somewhat conservative (in the traditional sense from the 1970s-2000s) Republican.

    At one point I remember a few years back thinking to myself: "wow, the Democrats have mostly become...the new Republicans" -- at that time, back during 2012-2016 time frame.

    It's the way that Limbaugh and company kinda prevented the GOP from just overwhelming the Democrats -- by pushing the GOP so far right, he helped set the situation where the Democrats could move to the center and win!

    That's how Limbaugh and company defeated the GOP.
     
  7. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    I upgraded your post to "winner" when I saw it pinpointed the actual real situation, instead of just hand waving:

    [​IMG]

    Republicans would have us believe that their tight-fisted approach to spending is what brought down the deficit. But in fact, Obama has been very conservative, fiscally, since day one, to the consternation of his own party. According to reporting by the Washington Post and New York Times, Obama actually endorsed much deeper cuts in spending and the deficit than did the Republicans during the 2011 budget negotiations, but Republicans walked away.
    Obama Is a Republican | The American Conservative
    (link courtesy of Jamsie above)
    --------------

    It's such a good point. A lot of Democrats have been the actual conservatives. The real deal. And over the last 10 years a lot fewer Republicans have than in the past.

    And, it's gotten more that way: many of the actual conservatives are Democrats. They just moved into the vacuum in many state races left when Republicans moved out and put up radical far-right non-conservative candidates.
     
  8. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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  9. Kentonio

    Kentonio Well-Known Member

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    Obama had to deal with the fallout of the global economic crisis that let’s not forget began under Bush’s administration.

    Republican attempts to pin it on Obama are laughable. It’s like me throwing a Molotov cocktail at you and then blaming you for the resulting burns to the furniture.
     
  10. Kentonio

    Kentonio Well-Known Member

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    As for McConnell he’s a vile and cynical opportunist who has done more to divide America than anyone. He facilitated Trump’s terrible behavior and created the environment which made it possible in the first place.

    Whatever he chooses to do over impeachment will be for his own cynical political calculations. He deserves to go down in history as one of the great political villains of our time.
     
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  11. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    What happened under Trump during the strong economy before the virus? --

    BUSINESS NEWS
    OCTOBER 25, 2019
    U.S. government's annual budget deficit largest since 2012
    By Lindsay Dunsmuir

    4 MIN READ

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. government ended fiscal year 2019 with the largest budget deficit in seven years...
    U.S. government's annual budget deficit largest since 2012


    That's During A Strong Economy!


     
  12. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I made no assertion with regard to Democrats and deficits. [I ignored the fact that we had a surplus under Clinton]. I understand that Democrats favor expansion of federal responsibilities and increased debt and taxation to pay for the expansion.

    My point is that Republicans used to stand for less spending and lower deficits.
     
  13. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    ;) So, your contention now refuted by the evidence, you want to say that Trump wasn't much better.

    Maybe not, but Obama still does hold the record, and you can appreciate why some people who know those facts grow weary of the claims made by the latter's admirers that he, the great Obama, did not oversee the huge increase in the national debt that he certainly did.
     
  14. Jamsie

    Jamsie Well-Known Member Supporter

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    After trump's first term where do we stand now in terms of both debt and deficit?
     
  15. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't think that Kavanaugh was the best choice. There were more qualified conservatives. However, I agree that the three justices are likely to uphold the constitution and the democracy, albeit with a decided move toward the right politically. The outrage was in not allowing Obama to chose a justice.

    I strongly believe that Roberts is a fine chief justice.

    BOTTOM LINE
    Trump was serious deluded when he believed that justices would back him no matter what, especially with regard to voting on elections and his powers as president. The justices (and many lower justices) have acted to protect the democracy.
     
  16. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    Albion, when we show you clear facts (including those that most everyone knows even!), you deny them.

    It happens it seems when you are trying to paint Trump as the Great Savior of the U.S. -- that's when you do the worst at being totally out of touch with real facts.
     
  17. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So, Albion deflects. Is this new?

    From the perspective of mainstream Republicanism, Trump's presidency has been extremely successful. He could have been easily elected had he campaigned on his successes. Of course, this would have required that we allowed the medical folks to manage the COVID crisis, at least after the June upsurge.
     
  18. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    @Albion -- the trouble is that when the economy is strong, the debt is *not* supposed to be rising rapidly.

    But look and see what was happening *before* the pandemic:

    The deficit was rising sharply even though the economy was strong, before the pandemic:

    During the pandemic -- the deficit has a huge jump....but even before the pandemic it was rising during 2019, where in most of U.S. history have been decreasing (because of the strong economy):

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Well, why don't you try me? You presented information about the annual deficits, did you not? Remember that chart which was supposed to prove everything?

    What's more, I agreed with the claim...so far as it concerned deficits. The problem, however, is that most people think that deficit = debt, so that when this is not made clear, they are being misled. And why would it be wrong to set them straight about it, if that's what you are complaining about?
     
  20. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    The problem: that increase in the federal deficit during the strong economy during 2019, when it should have been falling in size.

    See post just above.
     
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