Some Thoughts On McConnell

mark46

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 29, 2010
20,042
4,720
✟830,515.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
McConnell has his legacy and the interests of the Senate as his priorities.

I would argue that he has done very well. He opposed Obama, and still much legislation passed. It can be argued that his opposition prevented the left from passing their legislation. He greatly disliked Trump, and certainly does so now. He got what he could out the very unstable president.

Most importantly to McConnell, he almost singlehandedly changed the Supreme Court and other courts for DECADES.

LET US DISCUSS THE TIME SINCE THE ELECTION
McConnell knew it was over within a week, at the same time as CNN or the other networks. That was NOT his immediate concern.

His primary concern was the outcome of elections in Georgia. As far as actions, he had no good choices. Trump's actions were a definite negative, but he needed a large turnout of Trump's base. It seems likely that opposing the president would have further depressed the turnout of Trump's base. McConnell towed the line in the hope that one of the seats could be saved. It was indeed close.

The insurrection was the day after the election. From a pure mainstream Republican position, it is after the election that McConnell's actions should be evaluated.

BOTTOM LINE
What has McConnell done since the election was decided on the day of the insurrection?

Well, he has said that Trump has committed impeachable actions. McConnell's wife resigned from Trump's cabinet.

We will see whether he votes for impeachment. In any case, I expect that Biden will find a way to pass several pieces of key legislation this year, with the cooperation of McConnell.
 
Last edited:

essentialsaltes

Stranger in a Strange Land
Oct 17, 2011
32,794
36,090
Los Angeles Area
✟820,156.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
Trump and McConnell still have not spoken since last Wednesday's riot, a separate source familiar with the matter confirmed to CNN. Another source said the two men haven't spoken since McConnell's floor speech acknowledging Biden as President-elect in December.

McConnell couldn't get Trump on the phone when he refused to sign the stimulus bill over the Christmas week, a third source told CNN. McConnell has since told others in the wake of the stimulus circus he won't talk to Trump again.

McConnell has been steadily moving his conference away from Trump for weeks. While he knows they all aren't there with him, the Kentucky Republican believes the party needs to turn the page.

Several GOP sources said on Tuesday that if McConnell supports conviction, Trump almost certainly will be convicted by 67 senators in the impeachment trial.

"If Mitch is a yes, he's done," said one Senate GOP source who asked not to be named.
 
Upvote 0

Halbhh

Everything You say is Life to me
Supporter
Mar 17, 2015
17,172
9,191
catholic -- embracing all Christians
✟1,152,592.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Most importantly to McConnell, he almost singlehandedly changed the Supreme Court and other courts for DECADES.
About this one important aspect you raised, I think it's more of an open question: I know this idea it's some profound change is the common thought many say. But... someone like Kavanaugh or Gorsuch, or Bennett -- they are as likely as not, more likely than not really, to have integrity generally (most or even almost always I'd expect) and would be reasonably expected to consistently rule according to the Constitution in a mostly reasonable way. At least, not a partisan way. (this is the reasonable expectation ahead of time, and so far I've not seen something yet to make me think otherwise, though I didn't examine a lot, but just a dozen or so things in the news)

Consider: on this election they certainly seemed fair/correct, we would agree? They haven't tried to usurp the election nor given that any cover or partial justification to those efforts, but have instead upheld the Constitutional process even just by not speaking otherwise.

But I think there is more than this one good we can expect from them. Remember, chief justice Roberts was nominated by Bush.

Don't you agree that Roberts is showing an even handed fairness, mostly? I'd not guess too much ahead of time about how these 3 new members will rule(!)....

Just my 2 cents. :)
 
Upvote 0

Jamsie

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Aug 2, 2017
2,211
1,279
73
Vermont
✟324,891.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
McConnell has his legacy and the interests of the Senate as his priorities.

I would argue that he has done very well. He opposed Obama, and still much legislation passed. It can be argued that his opposition prevented the left from passing their legislation. He greatly disliked Trump, and certainly does so now. He got what he could out the very unstable president.

As a brief aside from one of your comments - I believe you will find that mcconnell got very little done and in fact was the greatest obstructionist in history. Also, he opposed Obama for all the wrong reasons ...
Obama Is a Republican | The American Conservative

The general tone of republicans in both houses:
MULVANEY: "Well, we didn’t get very much done. Listen, I’ll be the first to admit that when the tea party wave, of which I was one, got here in 2011, the last thing we were interested in was giving President Obama legislative successes."
*****

Otherwise I mostly agree as many republicans, especially mcconnell, are realizing that their actions will provide a legacy ... and most assuredly a very negative view by historians and such. Clearly mcconnell is a political animal and his calculations are to serve him, and party!
 
Last edited:
  • Winner
Reactions: Halbhh
Upvote 0

Halbhh

Everything You say is Life to me
Supporter
Mar 17, 2015
17,172
9,191
catholic -- embracing all Christians
✟1,152,592.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
McConnell has his legacy and the interests of the Senate as his priorities.

I would argue that he has done very well. He opposed Obama, and still much legislation passed. It can be argued that his opposition prevented the left from passing their legislation. He greatly disliked Trump, and certainly does so now. He got what he could out the very unstable president.

Most importantly to McConnell, he almost singlehandedly changed the Supreme Court and other courts for DECADES.

LET US DISCUSS THE TIME SINCE THE ELECTION
McConnell knew it was over within a week, at the same time as CNN or the other networks. That was NOT his immediate concern.

His primary concern was the outcome elections in Georgia. As far as actions, he had no good choices. Trump's actions were a definite negative, but he needed a large turnout of Trump's base. It seems likely that opposing the president would have further depressed the turnout of Trump's base. McConnell towed the line in the hope that one of the seats could be saved. It was indeed close.

The insurrection was the day after the election. From a pure mainstream Republican position, it is after the election that McConnell's actions should be evaluated.

BOTTOM LINE
What has McConnell done since the election was decided on the day of the insurrection?

Well, he has said that Trump has committed impeachable actions. McConnell's wife resigned from Trump's cabinet.

We will see whether he votes for impeachment. In any case, I expect that Biden will find a way to pass several pieces of key legislation this year, with the cooperation of McConnell.
McConnell, whom I thought had done a serious wrong to prevent Merrick Garland from even being allowed to be considered in 2016, for 9 months(!)....that was not in accord with the real intent of the Constitution.

But, though he's far from perfect, he does have a certain set of principles of his own it seems, that he is seeming to follow, and that's...not the worst possible scenario when some of the principles are right. To have some principles, follow them, and some of them to be right ones, that's far from the worst case.
 
Upvote 0

Halbhh

Everything You say is Life to me
Supporter
Mar 17, 2015
17,172
9,191
catholic -- embracing all Christians
✟1,152,592.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
As a brief aside from one you comments - I believe you will find that mcconnell got very little done and in fact was the greatest obstructionist in history. Also, he opposed Obama for all the wrong reasons ...
Obama Is a Republican | The American Conservative

The general tone of republicans in both houses:
MULVANEY: "Well, we didn’t get very much done. Listen, I’ll be the first to admit that when the tea party wave, of which I was one, got here in 2011, the last thing we were interested in was giving President Obama legislative successes."
*****

Otherwise I mostly agree as many republicans, especially mcconnell, are realizing that their actions will provide a legacy ... and most assuredly a very negative view by historians and such. Clearly mcconnell is a political animal and his calculations are to serve him, and party!
Good point that Obama was very much like a moderate or even somewhat conservative (in the traditional sense from the 1970s-2000s) Republican.

At one point I remember a few years back thinking to myself: "wow, the Democrats have mostly become...the new Republicans" -- at that time, back during 2012-2016 time frame.

It's the way that Limbaugh and company kinda prevented the GOP from just overwhelming the Democrats -- by pushing the GOP so far right, he helped set the situation where the Democrats could move to the center and win!

That's how Limbaugh and company defeated the GOP.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Jamsie
Upvote 0

Halbhh

Everything You say is Life to me
Supporter
Mar 17, 2015
17,172
9,191
catholic -- embracing all Christians
✟1,152,592.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
As a brief aside from one you comments - I believe you will find that mcconnell got very little done and in fact was the greatest obstructionist in history. Also, he opposed Obama for all the wrong reasons ...
Obama Is a Republican | The American Conservative

The general tone of republicans in both houses:
MULVANEY: "Well, we didn’t get very much done. Listen, I’ll be the first to admit that when the tea party wave, of which I was one, got here in 2011, the last thing we were interested in was giving President Obama legislative successes."
*****

Otherwise I mostly agree as many republicans, especially mcconnell, are realizing that their actions will provide a legacy ... and most assuredly a very negative view by historians and such. Clearly mcconnell is a political animal and his calculations are to serve him, and party!

I upgraded your post to "winner" when I saw it pinpointed the actual real situation, instead of just hand waving:



Republicans would have us believe that their tight-fisted approach to spending is what brought down the deficit. But in fact, Obama has been very conservative, fiscally, since day one, to the consternation of his own party. According to reporting by the Washington Post and New York Times, Obama actually endorsed much deeper cuts in spending and the deficit than did the Republicans during the 2011 budget negotiations, but Republicans walked away.
Obama Is a Republican | The American Conservative
(link courtesy of Jamsie above)
--------------

It's such a good point. A lot of Democrats have been the actual conservatives. The real deal. And over the last 10 years a lot fewer Republicans have than in the past.

And, it's gotten more that way: many of the actual conservatives are Democrats. They just moved into the vacuum in many state races left when Republicans moved out and put up radical far-right non-conservative candidates.
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

Kentonio

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2018
7,467
10,458
48
Lyon
✟266,564.00
Country
France
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Talking about annual deficits instead of the national debt is a familiar way of sidestepping the real situation.

This article (and many others that are available) will make clear the record-setting increase in the national debt under Obama (see link).

FACT CHECK: Did The National Debt Double Under Obama? | Check Your Fact

Obama had to deal with the fallout of the global economic crisis that let’s not forget began under Bush’s administration.

Republican attempts to pin it on Obama are laughable. It’s like me throwing a Molotov cocktail at you and then blaming you for the resulting burns to the furniture.
 
Upvote 0

Kentonio

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2018
7,467
10,458
48
Lyon
✟266,564.00
Country
France
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
As for McConnell he’s a vile and cynical opportunist who has done more to divide America than anyone. He facilitated Trump’s terrible behavior and created the environment which made it possible in the first place.

Whatever he chooses to do over impeachment will be for his own cynical political calculations. He deserves to go down in history as one of the great political villains of our time.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Halbhh

Everything You say is Life to me
Supporter
Mar 17, 2015
17,172
9,191
catholic -- embracing all Christians
✟1,152,592.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Talking about annual deficits instead of the national debt is a familiar way of sidestepping the real situation.

This article (and many others that are available) will make clear the record-setting increase in the national debt under Obama (see link).

FACT CHECK: Did The National Debt Double Under Obama? | Check Your Fact

What happened under Trump during the strong economy before the virus? --

BUSINESS NEWS
OCTOBER 25, 2019
U.S. government's annual budget deficit largest since 2012
By Lindsay Dunsmuir

4 MIN READ

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. government ended fiscal year 2019 with the largest budget deficit in seven years...
U.S. government's annual budget deficit largest since 2012


That's During A Strong Economy!


 
Upvote 0

mark46

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 29, 2010
20,042
4,720
✟830,515.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Talking about annual deficits instead of the national debt is a familiar way of sidestepping the real situation.

This article (and many others that are available) will make clear the record-setting increase in the national debt under Obama (see link).

FACT CHECK: Did The National Debt Double Under Obama? | Check Your Fact

I made no assertion with regard to Democrats and deficits. [I ignored the fact that we had a surplus under Clinton]. I understand that Democrats favor expansion of federal responsibilities and increased debt and taxation to pay for the expansion.

My point is that Republicans used to stand for less spending and lower deficits.
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
What happened under Trump during the strong economy before the virus? --
;) So, your contention now refuted by the evidence, you want to say that Trump wasn't much better.

Maybe not, but Obama still does hold the record, and you can appreciate why some people who know those facts grow weary of the claims made by the latter's admirers that he, the great Obama, did not oversee the huge increase in the national debt that he certainly did.
 
Upvote 0

Jamsie

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Aug 2, 2017
2,211
1,279
73
Vermont
✟324,891.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Upvote 0

mark46

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 29, 2010
20,042
4,720
✟830,515.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
About this one important aspect you raised, I think it's more of an open question: I know this idea it's some profound change is the common thought many say. But... someone like Kavanaugh or Gorsuch, or Bennett -- they are as likely as not, more likely than not really, to have integrity generally (most or even almost always I'd expect) and would be reasonably expected to consistently rule according to the Constitution in a mostly reasonable way. At least, not a partisan way. (this is the reasonable expectation ahead of time, and so far I've not seen something yet to make me think otherwise, though I didn't examine a lot, but just a dozen or so things in the news)

Consider: on this election they certainly seemed fair/correct, we would agree? They haven't tried to usurp the election nor given that any cover or partial justification to those efforts, but have instead upheld the Constitutional process even just by not speaking otherwise.

But I think there is more than this one good we can expect from them. Remember, chief justice Roberts was nominated by Bush.

Don't you agree that Roberts is showing an even handed fairness, mostly? I'd not guess too much ahead of time about how these 3 new members will rule(!)....

Just my 2 cents. :)

I don't think that Kavanaugh was the best choice. There were more qualified conservatives. However, I agree that the three justices are likely to uphold the constitution and the democracy, albeit with a decided move toward the right politically. The outrage was in not allowing Obama to chose a justice.

I strongly believe that Roberts is a fine chief justice.

BOTTOM LINE
Trump was serious deluded when he believed that justices would back him no matter what, especially with regard to voting on elections and his powers as president. The justices (and many lower justices) have acted to protect the democracy.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Halbhh

Everything You say is Life to me
Supporter
Mar 17, 2015
17,172
9,191
catholic -- embracing all Christians
✟1,152,592.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
;) So, your contention now refuted by the evidence, you want to say that Trump wasn't much better.

Maybe not, but Obama still does hold the record, and you can appreciate why some people who know those facts grow weary of the claims made by the latter's admirers that he, the great Obama, did not oversee the huge increase in the national debt that he certainly did.
Albion, when we show you clear facts (including those that most everyone knows even!), you deny them.

It happens it seems when you are trying to paint Trump as the Great Savior of the U.S. -- that's when you do the worst at being totally out of touch with real facts.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: KCfromNC
Upvote 0

mark46

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 29, 2010
20,042
4,720
✟830,515.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Albion, when we show you clear facts (including those that most everyone knows even!), you deny them.

It happens it seems when you are trying to paint Trump as the Great Savior of the U.S. -- that's when you do the worst at being totally out of touch with real facts.

So, Albion deflects. Is this new?

From the perspective of mainstream Republicanism, Trump's presidency has been extremely successful. He could have been easily elected had he campaigned on his successes. Of course, this would have required that we allowed the medical folks to manage the COVID crisis, at least after the June upsurge.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Halbhh
Upvote 0

Halbhh

Everything You say is Life to me
Supporter
Mar 17, 2015
17,172
9,191
catholic -- embracing all Christians
✟1,152,592.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
@Albion -- the trouble is that when the economy is strong, the debt is *not* supposed to be rising rapidly.

But look and see what was happening *before* the pandemic:

The deficit was rising sharply even though the economy was strong, before the pandemic:

During the pandemic -- the deficit has a huge jump....but even before the pandemic it was rising during 2019, where in most of U.S. history have been decreasing (because of the strong economy):

FT_20.08.10_Deficit_3.png
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Albion, when we show you clear facts (including those that most everyone knows even!), you deny them.

Well, why don't you try me? You presented information about the annual deficits, did you not? Remember that chart which was supposed to prove everything?

What's more, I agreed with the claim...so far as it concerned deficits. The problem, however, is that most people think that deficit = debt, so that when this is not made clear, they are being misled. And why would it be wrong to set them straight about it, if that's what you are complaining about?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Halbhh

Everything You say is Life to me
Supporter
Mar 17, 2015
17,172
9,191
catholic -- embracing all Christians
✟1,152,592.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Well, why don't you try me? You presented information about the annual deficits, did you not? Remember that chart which was supposed to prove everything?

What's more, I agreed with the claim...so far as it concerned deficits. The problem, however, is that most people think that deficit = debt, so that when this is not made clear, they are being misled. And why would it be wrong to set them straight about it, if that's what you are complaining about?
The problem: that increase in the federal deficit during the strong economy during 2019, when it should have been falling in size.

See post just above.
 
Upvote 0