• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

Some claim Jesus had faith

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Jesus is YHWH, Sep 6, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,220
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    It was the feeding of the five thousand and Jesus walking on water in the fourth watch of the night. The fourth watch was approximately the three hours before dawn.
     
  2. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

    +1,191
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Jesus sees and does everything He sees the Father saying and doing. He is EQUAL with the FATHER. Like Father, like Son.He always knew and did the Fathers will 24/7. Hence He was SINLESS and IMPECCABLE like His Father.

    John 5:16-19
    So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
    19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

    John 5:21
    For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.
     
  3. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,190
    United States
    Christian
    In Relationship
    God has no need for faith ? This does not sound correct. As a matter of fact it is a stumbling block. The entire Gospel is based on faith. We are made in the image of God and we are to be " like" Christ. Then to say God is faithless?? This board lines heretical thinking. I do hope Christians see that, Be blessed.
     
  4. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

    +1,191
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I agree God is Faithful- the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I never said otherwise.
     
  5. genez

    genez Contributor Supporter

    +2,063
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    US-Constitution
    For the believer only.... That is the context in which it was spoken.

    Anyone living in any area of his life. If its not according to Bible doctrine, is a liar.
    Whenever Jesus said.... "It is written." That was his faith!

    How did Jesus overcome Satan in the Temptations? "It is written."
     
  6. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

    +1,191
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    He is the Word made flesh.

    Jesus said the OT was about Him !

    Luke 24:25-27
    25
    And He said to them, "O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26 " Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?" 27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.


    John 5:39-40
    39
    "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; 40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.


    Luke 24:44-45
    44
    Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled." 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,


    Jesus said the Holy Spirit will bear witness of HIM, no one else !

    John 15:26
    “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.

    John 16:7-9
    But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me

    John 16:13-14
    But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.

    hope this helps !!!
     
  7. JohnT

    JohnT Regular Member

    824
    +107
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    Your thesis is that because there is no record in Scripture of Jesus Christ using a particular Greek word that you arbitrarily chose.

    Please look at what Scripture actually says:

    John 21:25 Now there are also many other things that Jesus did. Were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.
    Yours is an argument from silence, and silence proves nothing other than silence itself. In other words, it is logically impossible to say that an absence of evidence is actually evidence of anything. By definition, silence is a void from which nothing positive can be deduced.

    Secondly, you are mixing human beliefs with Divine attributes. Being fully God, and with the exception of His second coming, Jesus knows everything there is to know about the beginning and the end. He calls Himself "The alpha and omega" and states that He alone is the gateway into heaven:

    John 14:
    6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
    7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.”

    8 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.”
    9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
    10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.
    11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.​

    As a result, it is not being wrong or snarky to state that while your intentions are good, the result is that you are conflating the need for humans to have faith in Jesus Christ and the fact that Jesus Christ is the Guarantor of our entrance into heaven. That is because He alone is both 100% God, and 100% human. One Divine Person, having TWO distinct natures, neither of them being confused, nor mixed up.
     
  8. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

    +1,191
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Good points John. I did use Jesus teaching on faith in which every-time He used pistis it was about the faith of others and faith in Him but never His own faith.

    Are you saying that we can't base pistis on how Jesus used the word in the gospels ?

    Afterall He is God and the Authority of Scripture since its all about Him from cover to cover.

    Jesus said the OT was about Himself

    Luke 24:25-27
    25
    And He said to them, "O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26 " Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?" 27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.


    John 5:39-40
    39
    "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; 40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.


    Luke 24:44-45
    44
    Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled." 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,


    Jesus said the Holy Spirit will bear witness of HIM, no one else !

    John 15:26
    “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.

    John 16:7-9
    But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me

    John 16:13-14
    But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.

    hope this helps !!!
     
  9. genez

    genez Contributor Supporter

    +2,063
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    US-Constitution
    God has no need for what He already is.

    Our faith is God's thinking pertaining to (hopefully) every area of our lives.

    Faith comes by hearing (the comprehension and believing) the Word of God.
    Romans 10:17


    Our faith is not simply a trusting feeling towards God. Faith is knowing enough of God's thinking for our given situation. That faith can only come through growing in grace and KNOWLEDGE of God's Word.

    That is why it says we have been given the mind (thinking) of Christ!

    A good rendering for 1 Corinthians 2:16 is as follows...


    The Scriptures ask, "Has anyone ever known the thoughts of the Lord
    or given him advice?" But we understand what Christ is thinking."

    Jesus was famous for saying... "It is written." Its what he thought with!

    His thinking is to become our faith. How do we know what Christ is thinking for our given situations? The Holy Spirit will bring back to remembrance what we should be learning every day. He is the Word of God! Look up John 1:1. That is what we need to keep growing in knowing more and more knowledge of God's Word.


    But continue to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior
    Jesus Christ. To him be the glory, now and forever! Amen."
    2 Pet 3:18​


    The Greek of 2 Peter 3:18 tells us to be continuously growing. Always learning and growing in knowledge of God's Word.

    For that reason, many pastors will ashamed when they stand before the Lord who were trying to tell their flock what they wanted to hear, rather than what they needed to hear. Its why we find the next passage in the Bible...


    For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine.
    Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great
    number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
    2 Tim 4:3​

    grace and peace.......
     
  10. genez

    genez Contributor Supporter

    +2,063
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    US-Constitution

    Tell Andy Stanley that, who says we need to unhitch from the OT.
     
  11. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

    +1,191
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Its sad to see him depart from the faith of his father. He went on record saying Gods word does not declare believers need to meet together regularly. He must not have Hebrews 10:25 in his bible nor the entire book of Acts where the church met together all the time on a regular basis. Charles Stanley would correct his son on this issue no doubt about it.
     
  12. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

    +1,093
    Christian
    Single
    To me faith means loyalty. Jesus was loyal to God, even though it meant suffering for him.
     
  13. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

    +1,191
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    hmmm do you have any lexicon to support your assertion regarding the biblical meaning of pistis ?
     
  14. genez

    genez Contributor Supporter

    +2,063
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    US-Constitution

    You can not have genuine loyalty to God without faith.

    Faith begins with having KNOWLEDGE of God's Word. Accurate knowledge. "Sound doctrine." And, then finding yourself able to be believing it.

    This is how we get faith...

    ..faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Rom 10:17​

    We all need to be taught sound doctrine in order to obtain the substance of what will become your faith.

    Its not simply about loyalty. For without sound understanding, your loyalty will be misplaced. After all, any are very loyal to false teachings in a very dogmatic way.

    Faith = an accurate understanding of the Word of God that you now believe and hold to.

    Faith covers all areas of our lives. So, we need an abundance of sound teachings to be made happy by God's grace!

    grace and peace....
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2020
  15. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

    +1,191
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Just an FYI for this thread I'm not being DOGMATIC in the OP just thought this would be a thought provoking topic for everyone to put on their thinking caps and cause us all to dig into the scriptures.

    Things I'm dogmatic about are essentials such as the Deity of Christ, the Trinity, the Gospel, The bodily Resurrection, Ascension and 2nd Coming of Christ, Salvation by grace through faith.

    hope this helps !!!
     
  16. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

    +7,823
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Not sure about that. What do you make of this?
    Does a child require the knowledge of "sound doctrine" to have faith?

    Matthew 18:3
    And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

    Mark 10:15
    Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”
     
  17. genez

    genez Contributor Supporter

    +2,063
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    US-Constitution
    As much as I find Andy a disappointment...

    We do need to be taught the Word of God regularly. For faith comes by "hearing." Back then they did not have ability to communicate God's Word unless you sat yourself down in front of an anointed teacher.

    Today we can have church while driving in our car, or at home. If the teacher is quality and thorough.

    If you are in church to learn, and not socialize? Listening and learning in a new way we have today? There are less distractions and offering better ability to concentrate while learning that way. Also, if a point is missed? One can always rewind and hear it again if its a recorded message... We have great advantages today over the early church. For they had to gather to hear God's Word properly taught.

    To those who have been given much, much will be required of them. We have been given a phenomenal amount of opportunity to learn God's Word like never before. Too bad Andy does not have that capacity to impart the needed knowledge. For his personality is not enough to sustain what is needed today for gaining answers that will become a matter of life or death for our needs.
     
  18. genez

    genez Contributor Supporter

    +2,063
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    US-Constitution
    Dogmatism is only needed in the face of opposition. And, when its called for.
     
  19. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

    +1,191
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Maybe that came across wrong but in the Essentials we should defend them without compromise and the non-essentials regarding salvation make room for the opinions of others. Does that make sense ?
     
  20. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member Supporter

    +2,642
    Christian
    Married
    Greetings in Christ Jesus.

    Though I have much to teach, I rarely answer threads about doctrine. It's just that few are ever actually listening, so I usually just keep moving. But since you posted the above, let me share the following with you.

    Jesus said this in Matthew:

    20 He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you shall say to this mountain, ‘Remove from here to there,’ and it shall remove, and nothing shall be impossible for you.”

    Jesus is the mustard seed here, as He also taught in Mark 4:30-32. So what He was in essence telling them was, "If you have faith as I have faith, you will say to this mountain, "Be removed," and it will obey you."

    Hope this helps. Nice to read that your mind is open. That's how we all learn.
    God bless,
    Hidden
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...