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Some claim Jesus had faith

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Jesus is YHWH, Sep 6, 2020.

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  1. genez

    genez Contributor Supporter

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    And the more Word we walk in? Walk in by means of the filling of the Holy Spirit? The more the Word is being made flesh in our lives.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2020
  2. genez

    genez Contributor Supporter

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    Pistis
    from a Biblical perspective is ..."(what is from God) and believed."

    Abraham did not simply 'trust.' Abraham BELIEVED. And, because Abraham had faith? He trusted.

    What does Scripture say? "Abraham believed God,
    and
    it was credited to him as righteousness." Rom 4:3​


    Trust is the fruit of accepting faith. Trust is not faith in itself.
     
  3. JohnT

    JohnT Regular Member

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    I believe that you may be looking more at the morphology than on the grammatical construction. Verse 16 is a third class conditional sentence, and when we decline Χριστοῦ as genitive, it may cause us to overlook the simple chronology and the promise of future justification.

    15 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners;
    16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

    Notice the present conditions:
    1. jews, not Gentile sinners
    2. We are not justified by the Law
    3. We are justified through πίστις Χριστοῦ
    4. We HAVE BELIEVED in Christ (past action continuing to the present)
    5. Purpose clause in order to be justified by [our] faith in Christ; Personal, not objective or universal
    6. Repetition of "not by works".
    7. Third iteration: because by works of the law no one will be justified.
    Since the these clauses follow the "we are not, we will be..." formula I believe that that construction takes precedence. Also, while the πίστις Χριστοῦ is the subject of the means of justification, then the more viable understanding is that it is more a subjective genitive, rather than an objective (universal condition) genitive
     
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  4. dms1972

    dms1972 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Did Jesus of Nazareth have faith in God, that is a great question. What can we discover from the Bible on this? In Hebrews, he is described as "the pioneer and perfecter of our faith" in Hebrews 12:2. More often though as has been said it is Jesus faithfulness, in terms of his obedience to his Father that is in view in the New Testament.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2020
  5. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If you ask me, where you are Christophany is still the best, despite its problems. All forums have their problems, but here you have responses like Post #80, which makes you so glad you took the time, Lol.

    My apologies for posting. I should have known better. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2020
  6. genez

    genez Contributor Supporter

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    Jesus was the "manufacturer" of faith. Of our faith.

    He was the test pilot and prover that it works, by becoming as a man and overcoming the world by means of his developed and pioneered faith.


    Fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith.
    For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its
    shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God." Heb 12:2​
     
  7. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    The reality is that we can't heal anyone, only God can heal. Jesus didn't heal anyone without the power of God at work through him. God can choose any instrument he desires. However, local unbelief limits the power of God in healing. Not sure why, but it even happened to Jesus. I think this is a primary reason we don't see more healing today in the western world. Much more common in third world countries. We've all heard the missionary stories.

    Mark 6:4-6
    Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town, among his relatives and in his own home.” 5 He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. 6 He was amazed at their lack of faith.
     
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  8. iLove

    iLove Newbie

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    As believers, it is important that we keep “first things first.” Without the Cross, there is no Resurrection! Without the death of Jesus on Calvary, there would be no need for His Resurrection.

    Both are forever connected. But the Resurrection remains dependent upon the Cross. The Cross is never dependent upon the Resurrection! Therefore, It is impossible to experience Resurrection life unless you first embrace the crucified life. So let us die daily to self and thereby experience Resurrection life, just as God intended.
     
  9. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    CARM was good until recently I've been a member there since the beginning in 95.
     
  10. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    I caught that 51 lb Salmon on the Feather River in California.
     
  11. genez

    genez Contributor Supporter

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    Post #80 is questioning a presumptuous interpretation. Its subjective and out of context of what was actually said by Jesus. Jesus never said he was like a grain of mustard seed. Its a conflated interpretation. He spoke about having minimal faith by a believer.

    That's why I was asking for another way to make that point made...Otherwise? Its not valid as it was presented.
     
  12. Scott Husted

    Scott Husted Well-Known Member

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    This is a good example of how you can look for something in scripture not find it, and it still be there.
     
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  13. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Except that it's not as clear at the list suggests. Paul refers many times to a phrase that can mean the faith of Jesus, faith in Jesus, or the faithfulness of Jesus. This is in fact the precise wording you'd use if you wanted to refer to Jesus' faith. But most Bibles don't translate it that way, because it's also the wording you'd use to talk about faith in Jesus.

    The choice is made by context, meaning what it appears that Paul is saying. Quite likely in some cases he's referring to faith in Jesus but in others it's just as likely to be Jesus' faith or faithfulness. I'd probably translate faithfulness. I think the same phrase is outside outside Paul as well, but I don't have time to check.
     
  14. zoidar

    zoidar Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Didn't Jesus have faith that what he said would happen, actually would happen? Like when he commanded the winds to be still?
     
  15. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I never would have guessed something that big could be fresh water. Pretty amazing. Must have taken you an hour to get him to the boat, Lol.
     
  16. Scott Husted

    Scott Husted Well-Known Member

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    The centurion's logical explanation of his faith was what Jesus proclaimed as the greatest of all that were in Israel.

    In the end faith becomes the expressed image of his person/substance, which like a word starts out as a seed, in relationship to our soul as the garden it was planted in.
     
  17. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    about a 1/2 hour from the bank :)
     
  18. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    That would be no different than the Father or Holy Spirit having faith to command the world into existence.
     
  19. zoidar

    zoidar Well-Known Member Supporter

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    But Jesus was not only God, also human.
     
  20. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    And Jesus listened what God told to him and did what God asked, which is why it can be said he was loyal to God.

    For I spoke not from myself, but the Father who sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak…
    John 12:49

    I can of myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous; because I don't seek my own will, but the will of my Father who sent me.
    John 5:30

    For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me.
    John 6:38
     
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