SOLA SCRIPTURA THE FINAL AUTHORITY AND SOLE RULE OF FAITH

[Fidelibus]

Hi Albion, if the figure is inflated or not for 40,000 or not chritian denominations around the world I do not know but even if there were 40 we must agree that 40 is too many right?

It is very easy to find out if you are willing to do a little work.

All you have to do is google "non-Catholic, Protestant, non-Denominational, Bible believing Christian churches and sects" in say a city like Boise Idaho. If you were to add them all up, what do you think the number would be in Boise alone? That's not even including the non-listed churches that have their services held in school gyms, rented halls, homes, ect.ect. started by people that got their pastorship certificates online. Wait, that's not all! Then multiply that by all the cities, towns, and villages throughout the world. What kind of number do you think you'd come up with? Less than a thousand? More than a thousand? I think it would be a number closer to tens of thousands. What do you think?


Have a Blessed Day!

 

[Hmm]

Not that there is anything wrong with it, but having a personal relationship with Jesus should be more than just a one-time event;

Personal relationships are never one-time events though are they? A marriage isn't just saying "I do" and then never speaking to your spouse thereafter. I believe Jesus invites us into his covent family over and above our individual salvation.

 

[Albion]

Thanks, but no where in this passage does it mention having a "personal relationship" with Jesus.

Just like it does not use the words Pope, Transubstantiation, Purgatory, etc. etc. etc.

But of course, when those ideas are inquired into, the answer is usually something like "that's what it means, though."

 

[Albion]

It is very easy to find out if you are willing to do a little work.

All you have to do is google "non-Catholic, Protestant, non-Denominational, Bible believing Christian churches and sects" in say a city like Boise Idaho. If you were to add them all up, what do you think the number would be in Boise alone?

I'm willing to bet money that it won't be 40,000. Or 33,000. Or 30,000. Or 22,000, and those are the figures often used by people wanting to make the point you also did.

 

[Fidelibus]

I'm willing to bet money that it won't be 40,000. Or 33,000. Or 30,000. Or 22,000, and those are the figures often used by people wanting to make the point you also did.

And I would take that bet if you were to include all the cities, towns, villages, and hamlets throughout the world! I would probably be safe even giving you odds.

 

[Albion]

And I would take that bet if you were to include all the cities, towns, villages, and hamlets throughout the world! I would probably be safe even giving you odds.

We know why that survey is misleading. I explained a little of that in my earlier post, and it has come up before on these forums, so it's not a matter of anyone here making up his own objections.

 

[Fidelibus]

We know why that survey is misleading.

Really? I don't think "we" do! Let's see. Here is a list of Christian Churches in Boise, ID. (from Churchfinder,com) minus Catholic Churches

Baptist:

Broadway Ave Baptist Church
Calvary Baptist Church
Eastwind Community Church
First Baptist Church
Second Baptist Church
Ustick Baptist Church
Whitney Baptist Church


Baptist- Independent:

Broadway Avenue Baptist Church
Capital City Baptist Church
Family Baptist Church


Church of Christ:

Boise Church of Christ


Church of the Nazarene:

Cloverdale Church of God
First Church of the Nazarene
New Heights Christian Fellowship


Disciples of Christ:

Crossroads Christian Church
Foothills Christian Church
Red Rock Christian Church
Southwest Christian Church
University Christian Church


Episcopal:

All Saints Episcopal Church
St Michael's Episcopal Cthdrl
St Stephen's Episcopal Church


Lutheran:

Beautiful Savior Lutheran
Cross of Christ Evnglcl Lthrn
Good Shepherd Lutheran Church
Immanuel Lutheran Church
King of Glory Lutheran Church
Shepherd of the Valley Lthrn


Non-Denominational:

Boise Friends Church
Boise Valley Christian
Calvary Chapel
Church of the Harvest
Community Christian Ctr
Community Church of the Valley
Cornerstone Community Church
Grace Bible Church of Boise
River Valley Community Church
The Pursuit Church
Treasure Valley Bible Church


Pentecostal:

Calvary Chapel Treasure Valley
Central Assembly Christian Ctr
Grace Chapel Boise Church
Northview Family Worship Ctr
Vineyard Christian Fellowship


Presbyterian:

Cloverdale United Reformed
Covenant Presbyterian Church
First Congregational Chr-Ucoc
First Presbyterian Church
Southminster Presbyterian Chr
Trinity Presbyterian Church
Wright Congregational United


Seventh Day Adventist:

Seventh-Day Adventist Church


United Methodist:

First United Methodist Church
Hillview United Methodist Chr
Whitney United Methodist Chr

(source- Churcfinder.com)



[Some other churches in Boise, ID:]


Churches affirming the LGBTQI Community;

Liberating Spirit Metropolitan Community Church
St. Michaels Cathedral (Episcopal)
Cathedral of the Rockies (Methodist)
CrossPoint Church
Wright Congregational UCC


Evangelical Churches:

Tree City Church
Trinity Evangelical Church
Five Mile Church
New Creation Fellowship Church
Jacob's Well Church
Epworth Chapel


This list is from a city with a population of roughly, 250,000. One has to wonder what the list would look like from cities like New York, Paris, Berlin, Houston, Seoul, Sao Paulo, London, ect. that have popilations in the millions.

So no, I don't think it's misleading at all


Again, not to mention, this list does not include those non-listed churches that have their services held in school gyms, garages, rented halls, homes, ect.ect. started by people that got their pastorship certificates online.

I explained a little of that in my earlier post, and it has come up before on these forums, so it's not a matter of anyone here making up his own objections.

So.... are we to take your explanation as absoulte and with zero chance of error? I don't think so


So yes........ I'd still take that bet with confidence!




Have a Blessed Day!

 

[Albion]

Really? I don't think "we" do! Let's see. Here is a list of Christian Churches in Boise, ID. (from Churchfinder,com) minus Catholic Churches
.....................................

Episcopal:

All Saints Episcopal Church
St Michael's Episcopal Cthdrl
St Stephen's Episcopal Church


Lutheran:

Beautiful Savior Lutheran
Cross of Christ Evnglcl Lthrn
Good Shepherd Lutheran Church
Immanuel Lutheran Church
King of Glory Lutheran Church
Shepherd of the Valley Lthrn

...and you imagine that, for example, all those Lutheran churches are separate denominations and all the Episcopal parishes represent different dioceses of separate denominations? How interesting.

But I'm willing to guess that you don't think that the various Catholic parishes in town are part of separate and competing communions, right?

 

[Fidelibus]

...and you imagine that, for example, all those Lutheran churches are separate denominations and all the Episcopal parishes represent different dioceses of separate denominations? How interesting.

Ahhh.... not sure how you know what I am imagining or not imagining. That word "omniscient" comes to mind again

Anyhoo.....They may be of the same dioceses, but do they have a worldwide central authority where they can go, to resolve any disputes involving faith and morals, like we Catholics can do? I don't think so, but I may be wrong. If so, feel free to correct me.

But I'm willing to guess that you don't think that the various Catholic parishes in town are part of separate and competing communions, right?

Let's look and see what the Second Vatican Council, specifically in Orientalium Ecclesiarum, promulgated by Pope St. Paul VI in 1964 have to say:

“The Holy Catholic Church, which is the Mystical Body of Christ, is made up of the faithful who are organically united in the Holy Spirit by the same faith, the same sacraments and the same government and who, combining together into various groups which are held together by a hierarchy, form separate Churches or Rites. Between these there exists an admirable bond of union, such that the variety within the Church in no way harms its unity; rather it manifests it, for it is the mind of the Catholic Church that each individual Church or Rite should retain its traditions whole and entire and likewise that it should adapt its way of life to the different needs of time and place.

“These individual Churches, whether of the East or the West, although they differ somewhat among themselves in… liturgy, ecclesiastical discipline, and spiritual heritage, are, nevertheless, each as much as the others, entrusted to the pastoral government of the Roman Pontiff, the divinely appointed successor of St. Peter in primacy over the universal Church.”----(OE 1-3)"

Here is something else you always fail to mention about those "various Catholic parishes" you spoke of. As a Catholic, I can attend Mass, go to Confession, receive the Blessed Sacrament at any one of these "various Catholic parishes" or churches, be it in Boise, Idaho; Paris, France; Tokyo, Japan; London, England or any other Catholic Church that is in full communion with the Holy See throughout the globe. And in doing so, on any given day, I am going to hear the very same reading of Scripture, receive the very same Holy Eucharist or receive the very same absolution after confession my sins at any one of these "various Catholic parishes".

I recall you saying to rturner76 in this thread..."Honestly, I have not taken more than a quick glance at the RC Catechism in years, and that was to reference a particular issue." My suggestion to you would be, before giving any futher comments or commentaries regarding the Catholic Church or it's beliefs, and teachings, dust off that Catechism of the Catholic Church you mentioned to have, and actually read it to get the truth, instead of "guessing" what you think the Catholic Church teaches and believes


Have a Blessed Day!

 

[Albion]

Ahhh.... not sure how you know what I am imagining or not imagining.

As we read that post, there would seem to be no other way to understand what was done.

The discussion concerned the presumed number of denominations in the world...but in your attempt to prove that the inflated number which had been reported is correct, you didn't even address the issue.

Instead, the reader was referred to to one city only and then that was made worse by you listing different PARISHES or congregations as though that shows us anything about numbers of DENOMINATIONS. It quite obviously does not.

 

[AmigodeJesus]

Luther, Zwingli and the rest would scarcely recognize most modern Protestant doctrines.

You are correct, as they would recognize them as Catholic doctrines being held by Protestants.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You are correct, as they would recognize them as Catholic doctrines being held by Protestants.

This is true AmigodeJesus. I believe God's people are in every church but there are indeed false doctrines handed down to protestants that are not biblical. I believe God is calling his people out wherever they may be to worship him in Spirit and in truth, back to the pure Word of God. It is time for all of us to leave BABYLON.

God bless

 

[AmigodeJesus]

As a Catholic, I can attend Mass, go to Confession, receive the Blessed Sacrament at any one of these "various Catholic parishes" or churches, be it in Boise, Idaho; Paris, France; Tokyo, Japan; London, England or any other Catholic Church that is in full communion with the Holy See throughout the globe. And in doing so, on any given day, I am going to hear the very same reading of Scripture

Curious, in several ways. One of which is the following question:

Are there any places in the Catholic Canon of scripture that are never read at Mass, at all, in all those given days in all those given years it has been following that pattern you mentioned, and if so, could you please specifically list those books, chapters, and verses in order from Genesis to Revelation, please (including the Catholic deutero-canon).

 

[AmigodeJesus]

The application of SS is an utter failure

No, the mis-application of Sola Scriptura is the utter failure. Do not therefore confuse the real and genuine with the counterfeit and spurious, though having an appearance of Godliness.

It would be like blaming Jesus for Judas' actions.

 

[concretecamper]

No, the mis-application of Sola Scriptura is the utter failure.

Ok, show me ONE protestant denomination that had not mis-applied SS.

 

[Jipsah]

SOLA SCRIPTURA THE FINAL AUTHORITY AND SOLE RULE OF FAITH

Biggest problem with that is that the canon of scripture itself is a matter of holy tradition. There's no Scripture that defines what's Scripture.

 

[Jipsah]

Just wondering if anyone that is of the Catholic belief can provide a single example of a doctrine that originates from an oral Apostolic Tradition that the Bible is silent about .

The Canon of Scripture.

 

[Albion]

Biggest problem with that is that the canon of scripture itself is a matter of holy tradition. There's no Scripture that defines what's Scripture.

This is one of the weaker arguments, IMO, although it apparently is taught to members of certain churches in anticipation of them getting involved in debates on this subject.

The claim is defective because Sola Scriptura does not refer to HOW God's truth is found by us (although the Old Testament explained it in no uncertain terms). It refers to WHAT it is (regardless of how we came to have it). Catholics, no less than Protestants, admit that they, too, consider it to be divine revelation.

If a person comes upon a gemstone in a pile of gravel, is that item NOT actually a gem unless the person was led to it in some certain way? No, that would be a ridiculous argument.

 

[concretecamper]

This is one of the weaker arguments, IMO, although it apparently is taught to members of certain churches in anticipation of them getting involved in debates on this subject.

did everyone notice there is no attempt to prove the so called weaker argument an error?

 

[Albion]

did everyone notice there is no attempt to prove the so called weaker argument an error?

"prove?" I did explain why it is a weak argument.