• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Sola Scriptura defined....

Meowzltov

Freylekher Yid
Aug 3, 2014
18,603
4,463
64
Southern California
✟66,774.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Others
So by your logic, you are believing that when Jesus said "you must eat my flesh and drink my blood", He was speaking literally, and He meant that LITERALLY we should do just that.
Now if we do that, what you are saying LITERALLY then is that that we should take a nibble on him like a vampire, or a cannibal.

Isn't it hilarious that YOU reject Sola Scriptura which is the Literal understanding of the Scriptures, but then you turn right around and accept the words Jesus said as LITERAL and you actually want to bake a bite out of Jesus.

Honestly, do you think about what you are believing before you put it to type?????

Please allow me to give you some basic 101 Christian teaching to help your understanding. Now, it goes without saying that I DO NOT WANT YOU TO ACCEPT WHAT I AM SAYING. YOU DO THE WORK ON THIS. YOU LOOK UP WHAT I AM SAYING. YOU CONFIRM ALL OF THIS WITH YOUR BIBLE.

John 1: The Word Became Flesh..........
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning."

Easy, right. I am sure you agree with that because you have your Bible open and you just read that for yourself. Now verse 14 says...............
"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us."

Now what do YOU see from the Word of God????? You Literally see ................

Jesus Flesh = The Word

Therefore by eating Jesus Flesh he meant consume scripture. It is that simple.

Now He also said you must drink living Water, a man cannot live on bread alone, this is Faith, but it is more than Faith because you do not have to have Faith to believe. Jesus wanted us to have proof that he came so he sent his spirit. Remember God is Spirit and he wants our spirits to be full, just like a well, flowing over in fact. So he sent his holy spirit to quench our thirst.

So if you do one thing today, eat some flesh by reading scriptures and drink some blood or drink some living water through faith, belief and through intentionally attempting to become aware of the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Peace, Joy, Truth and Love. Immerse yourselve in it, bathe in it, be baptised by it and overwhelmed by the peace that your Father wants you to have.

Feast on scripture, there are llots of information and Scriptures that we are now privvy to thanks to the internet. You are free to explore, grow and learn so that you do not let your upbrining tie you down, be free and explore with the mind that you are blessed with, be ravenous and fill your spirit with food and drink today.
There are portions of the Bible that are literal,such as "When they arrived, they went upstairs to the room where they were staying." Acts 1:13, and there are other portions of the Bible that are figurative such as "Let the rivers clap their hands" Psalms 98:8. You discern by context.

So how do we know the context of "My flesh is real food"? It says that many of Jesus' disciples left him at this time (we can assume because they were turned off by the gore of the literal interpretation of it). Now Jesus always explain Parables to his disciples. Did he stop those disciples from leaving, crying, "Wait, wait, it was figurative!" No, he let them leave. Why? Because they DID understand, and were leaving because they were in fact rejecting his teaching. This is how we know it was literal.

Now when we say his body and blood, it is not body and blood like ours, nor is it spirit. Christ has a glorified body. It was similar in that he ate fish. But it was different in that it teleported through the walls of the room to suddenly be with the disciples after the resurrection. So whatever it is, it is nothing like what we now know.
 
Upvote 0

Meowzltov

Freylekher Yid
Aug 3, 2014
18,603
4,463
64
Southern California
✟66,774.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Others
It has been stated over and over and over.
I had to edit out where you took the name of God in vain. Please remember that we are Christians and are sensitive to these sorts of things.

You don't have an authority that declares the books of canon, unless you accept the authority of the Church. God's booming voice did not come out of the heavens. There was no table of contents given to St John when he had his vision. You get the idea. For Protestants, without the authority of the Church, there is nothing to say that 1 Clement shouldn't be in the Bible, or that James should. Heck why not include the entire Book of Mormon. After all, nothing of authority (since there is no Church authority according to Protestants) says that canon is closed) says we can't keep adding to the Bible. (We do have a verse that says not to add to the Book of Revelation, and a verse saying not to add to Torah, but nothing saying not to add to canon.)
 
Upvote 0

Meowzltov

Freylekher Yid
Aug 3, 2014
18,603
4,463
64
Southern California
✟66,774.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Others
Good day, OpenHeart

Again it is not a question of authority. They are able and have developed their own "canon, just as the church of rome has... the question is by which standard do so and is that standard reasonable.

In Him,

Bill
The thing is, reasonable people can disagree. If disagreement produces different New Testaments, then we are in trouble. We cannot say that the NT is without error if we cannot agree on which books are without error.
 
Upvote 0

Meowzltov

Freylekher Yid
Aug 3, 2014
18,603
4,463
64
Southern California
✟66,774.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Others
Seeing that is the God breathed out word, it would be God who determines his canon, based on his authority alone.
Did God speak from heaven in a booming voice, telling us which books were canon? No. So God did not directly determine canon. Rather, God (as usual) chose to work THROUGH PEOPLE, in this case through His Church, to whom He had granted the authority to make these kinds of decisions (whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, etc.). The Bishops, meeting together in Ecumenical Council, weren't just some random men forming their own opinions. They represented the Church and were guided by the Holy Spirit to all truth.
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟211,285.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I had to edit out where you took the name of God in vain. Please remember that we are Christians and are sensitive to these sorts of things.

You don't have an authority that declares the books of canon, unless you accept the authority of the Church. God's booming voice did not come out of the heavens. There was no table of contents given to St John when he had his vision. You get the idea. For Protestants, without the authority of the Church, there is nothing to say that 1 Clement shouldn't be in the Bible, or that James should. Heck why not include the entire Book of Mormon. After all, nothing of authority (since there is no Church authority according to Protestants) says that canon is closed) says we can't keep adding to the Bible. (We do have a verse that says not to add to the Book of Revelation, and a verse saying not to add to Torah, but nothing saying not to add to canon.)

NO! That is not true in any way whatsoever.

You asked...............
"The real question is, what is the authority that determines the canon?"

I said..............
"It has been stated over and over and over. GOD!"

That is an answer to your question my dear and is NOT in vain in any way at all.
GOD determined what Scriptures would be!!!!

You understanding can not be accepted as it is so flawed I would not know where to begin.

The Bible does not give us a list of the books that belong in the Bible. Determining the canon was a process conducted first by Jewish rabbis and scholars and later by early Christians. Ultimately, it was God who decided what books belonged in the biblical canon. A book of Scripture belonged in the canon from the moment God inspired its writing. It was simply a matter of God’s convincing His human followers which books should be included in the Bible.

Again, it is crucial to remember that the church did not determine the canon. No early church council decided on the canon. It was God, and God alone, who determined which books belonged in the Bible. It was simply a matter of God’s imparting to His followers what He had already decided. The human process of collecting the books of the Bible was flawed, but God, in His sovereignty, and despite our ignorance and stubbornness, brought the early church to the recognition of the books He had inspired.
 
Upvote 0

Meowzltov

Freylekher Yid
Aug 3, 2014
18,603
4,463
64
Southern California
✟66,774.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Others
You asked...............
"The real question is, what is the authority that determines the canon?"

I said..............
"It has been stated over and over and over. GOD!"
OOOHHHHHHHH. I get it. Sorry for the misundertanding.
 
Upvote 0

Meowzltov

Freylekher Yid
Aug 3, 2014
18,603
4,463
64
Southern California
✟66,774.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Others
It was God, and God alone, who determined which books belonged in the Bible. It was simply a matter of God’s imparting to His followers what He had already decided.
And when/where did God infallibly impart the canon to his followers?
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟211,285.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
There are portions of the Bible that are literal,such as "When they arrived, they went upstairs to the room where they were staying." Acts 1:13, and there are other portions of the Bible that are figurative such as "Let the rivers clap their hands" Psalms 98:8. You discern by context.

So how do we know the context of "My flesh is real food"? It says that many of Jesus' disciples left him at this time (we can assume because they were turned off by the gore of the literal interpretation of it). Now Jesus always explain Parables to his disciples. Did he stop those disciples from leaving, crying, "Wait, wait, it was figurative!" No, he let them leave. Why? Because they DID understand, and were leaving because they were in fact rejecting his teaching. This is how we know it was literal.

Now when we say his body and blood, it is not body and blood like ours, nor is it spirit. Christ has a glorified body. It was similar in that he ate fish. But it was different in that it teleported through the walls of the room to suddenly be with the disciples after the resurrection. So whatever it is, it is nothing like what we now know.

Your comment in the 1st paragraph is correct. The Bible itself tells you what is literal and what is not.

Now, do you really believe that as Christians we are to EAT the flesh of Jesus and drink His literal blood? Is that what YOU really think He had in mind?????

Maybe should you refresh your understanding.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines this doctrine in section 1376:

"The Council of Trent summarizes the Catholic faith by declaring: ‘Because Christ our Redeemer said that it was truly his body that he was offering under the species of bread, it has always been the conviction of the Church of God, and this holy Council now declares again, that by the consecration of the bread and wine there takes place a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation.’"

In other words, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that once an ordained priest blesses the bread of the Lord's Supper, it is transformed into the actual flesh of Christ and when he blesses the wine, it is transformed into the actual blood of Christ. I

Is such a concept biblical? NO it is not!

Jesus made it exceedingly obvious what He meant. John 6:63 declares........
“The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.”

Jesus specifically stated that His words are “spirit.” Jesus was using physical concepts, eating and drinking, to teach spiritual truth. Just as consuming physical food and drink sustains our physical bodies, so are our spiritual lives saved and built up by spiritually receiving Him, by grace through faith. Eating Jesus’ flesh and drinking His blood are symbols of fully and completely receiving Him in our lives.

The Scriptures declare that the Lord's Supper is a memorial to the body and blood of Christ (Luke 22:19; 1 Corinthians 11:24-25), not the actual consumption of His physical body and blood. When Jesus was speaking in John chapter 6, Jesus had not yet had the Last Supper with His disciples, in which He instituted the Lord’s Supper. To read the Lord’s Supper / Christian Communion back into John chapter 6 is unwarranted.
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟211,285.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
OOOHHHHHHHH. I get it. Sorry for the misundertanding.

No problem! I am relieved that we fixed that as it was a concern that I had typed something that was not what I wanted to.
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟211,285.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
And when/where did God infallibly impart the canon to his followers?

Good question. The canon of the Old Testament in the form we now have it, was the work of Ezra and the Great Synagogue. This fact is borne witness to in the most ancient Jewish writings. The Great Synagogue was composed of Ezra, Nehemiah, Haggai, Zechariah, and Malachi. There is no doubt but that such a collection of books existed in the time of our Lord and the apostles (Luke 24:27,44).

The persecution of Diocletian (302 A.D.) brought to the front the question of the sacred literature of the church. The persecutors demanded that the Scriptures should be given up. This the Christians refused to do. Hence the question became urgent--What books are apostolic? The answer lies in our New Testament.

There were at that time many false and spurious gospels and epistles. Careful, prayerful, and deliberate examination, however, proved which were genuine and which were false. The genuine were received by the church as the inspired writings of the apostles and others whose names the books bear. Thus arose the New Testament canon.
This divinely guided consciousness of godly people in Bible times enabled them to judge what was spiritually true and what was false in the books that circulated among them and to detect the evidences of inspiration. There were, to be sure, certain specific standards set up as time went on, such as authorship, time of writing, language used, and the like. But the main fact to bear in mind is that as a result of the operation of the spiritual judgments of godly people there emerged out of the mass of writings certain books which by common agreement were regarded as divinely inspired. These books we call the Canon or the Canonical Books. "Canon" is a Greek word which means a rule or measuring line. A Canonical book, therefore, is one that conforms to the "Canon," that is, passes the test.

Historical evidence points to the selection of the books as early as about the year 100 A.D.
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟211,285.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
The thing is, reasonable people can disagree. If disagreement produces different New Testaments, then we are in trouble. We cannot say that the NT is without error if we cannot agree on which books are without error.

You do realize that that is circular reasoning......don't you?

Do you completly reject 2 Tim. 3:16..........
"ALL Scripture is inspired by God......".

Did God say it?
Can God lie?

If God wrote the Bible THROUGH the work of men, and YOU say that the Bible has errors in it.......
Do you realize what YOU are saying??????
 
Upvote 0

Meowzltov

Freylekher Yid
Aug 3, 2014
18,603
4,463
64
Southern California
✟66,774.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Others
You do realize that that is circular reasoning......don't you?

Do you completly reject 2 Tim. 3:16..........
"ALL Scripture is inspired by God......".

Did God say it?
Can God lie?
Please illustrate the circle of my so called circular reasoning.

I completely accept 2 Tim 3:16. I'm simply saying that it the verse doesn't specify which books are God breathed. We know from other verses in the New Testament that at the time Paul wrote, that the Torah and the Prophets were the books considered Scripture.

You HAVE to have an authority that God speaks through declare the canon of scripture, in order to apply 2 Tim 3:16.
 
Upvote 0

PeaceB

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2017
1,592
662
Arlington
✟52,717.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Engaged
YOU have things inside out. It is hard to imagine a serious Christian who has a basic education, let alone anyone with an advanced degree, who cannot see and understand that prima facie the Word of God is different from any other literature in the world.

The Bible is, to paraphrase L.S. Chafer.....
"not a book that men could write if they would, or would write if they could".

This is an elegant way of saying that the power of scripture is easily seen with the naked eye – at least for any and all who have the Spirit of God and have a desire to know.

If it looks, walks, and quacks like a duck, then surely it is one. Then again, if it doesn't, it isn't. One can argue that the style of Hebrews is somewhat different from that of Paul's other writings, but can one really claim that Hebrews does not empower, inspire, humble the ego, and elevate the spirit in the same way that all other scripture does?

We can tell when a cut of meat looks well marbled, and, on the other hand, when a particular steak has gone bad – with a single sniff. Any amateur geologists can easily tell the difference between gold and pyrite. Any apprentice diamond merchant can easily discern whether the stone is real or merely paste. Why do we assume that in the case of the most important tangible thing in this world, the holy scriptures, that this will not also be the case?

There is nothing adduced in the “information” given that should cause any Christian who has read Hebrews and felt its power through the Holy Spirit to now think that it is not legitimately part of the canon.
Here is what Martin Luther said about the epistle to the Hebrews:

Hitherto we have had the right certain chief books of the New Testament. The four following had, in ancient times, a different reputation. In the first place, that this Epistle is not St. Paul’s, nor any other apostle’s is proved by the fact that it says, in Hebrews 2:3, that this doctrine has come to us and remains among us through those who themselves heard it from the Lord. Thus it is clear that he speaks of the apostles as a disciple to whom this doctrine has come from the apostles, perhaps long after them. For St. Paul, in Galatians 1:1, testifies mightily that he has his Gospel from no man, neither through men, but from God Himself.

Again, there is a hard knot in the fact that in chapters 6 and 10 it flatly denies and forbids to sinners repentance after baptism, and in Hebrews 12:17, it says that Esau sought repentance and did not find it. This seems, as it stands, to be against all the Gospels and St. Paul’s epistles; and although one might make a gloss on it, the words are so clear that I do not know whether that would be sufficient. My opinion is that it is an epistle of many pieces put together, and it does not deal with any one subject in an orderly way.

However that may be, it is a marvelously fine epistle. It discusses Christ’s priesthood masterfully and thoroughly, out of the Scriptures, and interprets the Old Testament finely and richly. Thus it is plain that it is the work of an able and learned man, who was a disciple of the apostles, learned much from them, and was greatly experienced in faith and practiced in the Scriptures. And although, as he himself testifies in Hebrews 6:1, he does not lay the foundation of faith, which is the work of an apostle, nevertheless he does build finely thereon gold, silver, precious stones, as St. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 3:12. Therefore we should not be hindered, even though wood, straw or hay be mixed in with them, but accept this fine teaching with all honor; though to be sure, we cannot put it on the same level with the apostolic epistles.

Who wrote it is not known, and will not be known for a while; it makes no difference. We should be satisfied with the doctrine that he bases so constantly on the Scriptures, showing a right fine grasp upon the reading of the Scriptures and the proper way to deal with them. (Luther's Works, Volume 35, pp. 394-395)

As you can see, Martin Luther rejected Hebrews as the inspired word of God (as well as Jude, Revelation, and James, which he called an "epistle of straw".)

So why don't you tell me. Did Martin Luther, who invented Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, and many of the other Protestant doctrines that you hold, not have the Spirit of God, or did he not have a desire to know? Why is it that the father of the Protestant Reformation got wrong something that is "so simple" to understand?

And why do you not recognize 7 books of Scripture that the vast majority of Christians throughout history have recognized? Is it because you do not have the Spirit of God, or is it because you do not have a desire to know?

Where in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John do we find verses that they claim that they are part of the New Test. canon????
From what I remember, none of these books makes an explicit claim to be part of the NT canon, but please correct me if I am wrong. I would be interested in seeing the chapters and the verses if I have missed them.

The Sacred Tradition of the Catholic Church also holds Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John to be the inspired word of God, of course.

That does not answer the question does it? Again......"what is an example of a doctrine from an oral Apostolic Tradition that the Bible is silent about?"
I already answered this question, but I will answer it again in a way that should be more clear to you.

Doctrine: The books known as Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon, Hebrews, James, 1 & 2 Peter, 1 -3 John, Jude, and Revelation, and only these books, comprise the inspired word of God known as the New Testament.

That is "doctrine from an oral Apostolic Tradition that the Bible is silent about". The text of the Bible itself does not contain any such doctrinal statement, yet all Christians are required to believe this doctrine.
 
Upvote 0

PeaceB

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2017
1,592
662
Arlington
✟52,717.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Engaged
Jesus made it exceedingly obvious what He meant. John 6:63 declares........
“The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.”

Jesus specifically stated that His words are “spirit.” Jesus was using physical concepts, eating and drinking, to teach spiritual truth. Just as consuming physical food and drink sustains our physical bodies, so are our spiritual lives saved and built up by spiritually receiving Him, by grace through faith. Eating Jesus’ flesh and drinking His blood are symbols of fully and completely receiving Him in our lives.
No, John 6 does not state "our spiritual lives saved and built up by spiritually receiving Him, by grace through faith" (although this is true).

This is what our Lord said:

“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him."​

And this what our Lord said:

“This is my body, which is given for you."
Jesus did not state "whoever spiritually eats the flesh". Nor did Jesus state "this is a symbol of my body."

If you had more faith, you would take our Lord at what he said as true, instead of engaging in all types of eisegesis to get around the plain and obvious truth of what he said.

Look at it this way. If Jesus pointed to his chest and said "This is my body" you would not be like "No. No. When Jesus pointed to his chest he did not mean to indicate that he was referring to his body. He must have meant something else." You would simply take Jesus at his word because it "makes sense" to you when a person points to his chest and refers to it as his body. When Jesus points to bread and then states "This is my body" you cannot accept what Jesus said on faith, because such a thing does not "make sense" to you logically.

I will tell you this as a friend. If you apply less human logic, and have more faith in our Lord, you will be able to take him at his Word.

You can start by approaching our Lord in honest prayer tonight, and asking him with an open heart to teach you whether he truly meant what he said.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Fidelibus

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2017
1,191
303
68
U.S.A.
✟74,063.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
This is another example of why conversation with you is so tedious.

Boring????? Moi?? That's a first! :)

YOU actually KNOW the answer of the questions you are poseing but your agenda is to try and use deception to twist the comments and use straw man positions.

What part of your position do you beleive I am misrepresenting?

It was you that said:

"ALL" means "ALL".

You even went on to give the definition:

Dictionary defines "ALL" as.....
"Being or representing the entire or total number, amount, or quantity: All the windows are open. Deal all the cards."

Then you went on to say:

Now what part of the word "ALL" are you having trouble understanding????

That's why I asked if your understanding/belief of "ALL" included the passages I provided. (Which I might add, you failed to address.)

The verses use posted are known by everyone, except it appears you, are hyperbole in which there is an intentional exaggeration for the sake of emphasis.

So you mean that the verses I posted are not to be taken literally, but the the verses you posted are? By who's or what authority do you make this distinction?

There are many figures of speech in the Holy Scriptures, and a proper understanding of them is necessary to a true understanding of God's word.

Again, by who's "proper understanding" do we find them "necessary to be true?" Yours? your Pastor's? A T.V Evangelists?

That would be my encouragement to you my friend. The reading and study of God's Word instead of using Catholic blogs to find exceptions instead of the truth.

You mean the truth as YOU see it? So all/any Catholic bloggers are in error? If memory serves me correctly, I recall you saying over on my "sign of the cross" thread. Let me see if I can find it.........

Oh yeah, here it is, post # 162:

My "opinions" are just like yours and everyone else's. They are always open to error and who among us would ever say that his/her comments are absolutely without error.

Well, you seem to suggest Maj1 that your opinion takes precedence over PeaceB' when you say to her in post #114 reguarding John 6:

You are in error. Your misunderstand is flawed. You just do not understand it as it is from the Bible.

By what authority can you even suggest such a thing? And then, back on the 'sign of the cross' thread, posts 146 and 170 you say:

I certainly hope that you or no one else takes my word for anything.

I have NEVER ever said that anyone should listen to me or believe me in anything.

And you have the gall to tell PeaceB, (or anyone else for that matter) her understandings and beliefs are flawed and in error?? I hate to say it Major1, but you seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth, eventually folks will start to take notice, if they haven't already.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PeaceB
Upvote 0

Fidelibus

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2017
1,191
303
68
U.S.A.
✟74,063.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Do you completly reject 2 Tim. 3:16..........
"ALL Scripture is inspired by God......".

If these verses really mean that Paul was teaching sola Scriptura to the early Church, then why in 1 Thess. 2:13 does Paul teach that he is giving Revelation from God orally? Either Paul is contradicting his own teaching on sola Scriptura, or Paul was not teaching sola Scriptura in 2 Tim. 3:16-17. Which one is it?
 
Upvote 0

BBAS 64

Contributor
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
10,048
1,799
60
New England
✟613,678.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Did God speak from heaven in a booming voice, telling us which books were canon? No. So God did not directly determine canon. Rather, God (as usual) chose to work THROUGH PEOPLE, in this case through His Church, to whom He had granted the authority to make these kinds of decisions (whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, etc.). The Bishops, meeting together in Ecumenical Council, weren't just some random men forming their own opinions. They represented the Church and were guided by the Holy Spirit to all truth.

Good Day, Open

Just to may baseless assertions here to cover.... Gods Canon is his he revealed it to men and he did so infallibly. No other attribution of authority needed, I do how ever find you interpretation and application of scripture quite amusing.

In Him,

Bill
 
Upvote 0

BBAS 64

Contributor
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
10,048
1,799
60
New England
✟613,678.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If these verses really mean that Paul was teaching sola Scriptura to the early Church, then why in 1 Thess. 2:13 does Paul teach that he is giving Revelation from God orally? Either Paul is contradicting his own teaching on sola Scriptura, or Paul was not teaching sola Scriptura in 2 Tim. 3:16-17. Which one is it?

Good Day, Fidelibus


That verse has to do with the very intrinsic nature of Scripture.... which is a foundation basis of the historical doctrine of Sola Scriptura. You should go an dread the OP. As to 1 Thess 2:13 in order to engage this verse as you have chosen to do so and be relevant to the topic there are a few things that I hope you can do.

1 Thess 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.


Please provide some objective evidence that what Paul delivered and they received "the word of God" is not contained with in what is normally considered Scripture by the historical proponents of Sola Scriptura.

Please provide exactly what is was that Paul told them and they heard, so it can be validated objectively against the clear teaching of said Scripture as being outside of.

In Him,

Bill
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Major1
Upvote 0

War_Eagle

Active Member
Nov 11, 2017
204
91
56
Lake Worth
✟24,980.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Interesting. I've discovered yet another definition of sola scriptura. Most curious.

Some people who believe in sola scriptura define it such that any religious practice/belief is permitted so long as it isn't forbidden by scripture. Are they wrong?

Other people who believe in sola scriptura define it such that only religious practices/beliefs affirmed by scripture are permissible. Are they wrong?

Those things aren't sola scriptura. Those would actually be what we call the "normative principle" and "regulative principle", respectively.

The Biblical doctrine of sola scriptura refers to the authority of scripture, while those things refer to orthopraxy.
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟211,285.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
If these verses really mean that Paul was teaching sola Scriptura to the early Church, then why in 1 Thess. 2:13 does Paul teach that he is giving Revelation from God orally? Either Paul is contradicting his own teaching on sola Scriptura, or Paul was not teaching sola Scriptura in 2 Tim. 3:16-17. Which one is it?

Why would you need to copy and paste questions from a 2007 forum site, Word for word.

IF you had the time to do that, why not spend the time in actual Bible study????

Please read comment #138 as it explains the answer to the question you used from others to ask.
 
Upvote 0