"Sodom and Gomorah" Tories /Lib Dems

[Dave Ellis]

Because each of the sins that the law is now affirming carry curses which drag every body else down also whether or not they believe in it. If you want to understand the causes of Britains current malaise then here is the root.

Also Britains Judaeo Christian heritage remains the strongest influence on its laws and the most widely accepted by the general population.

Despite this our current ammoral nihilistic relativistic elites are promoting a religion of secular equality that is eroding religious freedoms, undermining respect for the rule of law, directky promoting evil acts, sowing the seeds of social division and instability and preparing the way for an extreme backlash against decadent governance in the future.

Camerons socalled Big Society vision is a joke. He has achieved the opposite of what he set out to do cause he never understood the life and soul of a workable culture lies in the freedom to worship and to live a moral life.

Prove your claims.

Furthermore, your laws are not based on Judeo-Christian heritage, your laws are rooted in Roman Law.

 

[Aijalon]

We should care what anyone with a moral backbone has to say, just sayin'

 

[Dave Ellis]

We should care what anyone with a moral backbone has to say, just sayin'

Sure.... So why should we care what the Catholic, Anglican or Southern Baptist churches have to say?

 

[Aijalon]

Sure.... So why should we care what the Catholic, Anglican or Southern Baptist churches have to say?

Yet another toungue in cheek response, nothing substantial from you, yet again.

It's pretty clear that you only care about your own personal morality. Not that it makes you really special, don't get me wrong, a lot of people are doing that these days. No one wants to be morally accountable. At least the Catholics understand there is judgement for their wrongdoings.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

There are 1.2 billion catholics and more than 420000 priests. It would be very surprising if there were not incidents of this sort however regrettable they are. Also the church has done a lot in recent years to put its house in order and many of the accusations date from decades ago.

But the people who criticise this most strongly are often those who feel most critiqued by a church that cannot support the genocide of the unborn, gay sex , adultery, fornication, divorce, a contempt for the poor, a life without God etc.

People look for excuses to deny Gods authority in their lives accusing Christians of being hypocrits as a way of soothing their own guilty consciences. The result is the ammoral nihilistic relativistic culture which spawned this current political elite.

Guilty consciences? You seem to be suggesting that people who do not believe as you do somehow feel "guilty" for not believing as you do.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Yet another toungue in cheek response, nothing substantial from you, yet again.

It's pretty clear that you only care about your own personal morality. Not that it makes you really special, don't get me wrong, a lot of people are doing that these days. No one wants to be morally accountable. At least the Catholics understand there is judgement for their wrongdoings.

Who shall we hold morally accountable for spreading prejudice against gay people and their families?

 

[Dave Ellis]

Yet another toungue in cheek response, nothing substantial from you, yet again.

It's pretty clear that you only care about your own personal morality. Not that it makes you really special, don't get me wrong, a lot of people are doing that these days. No one wants to be morally accountable. At least the Catholics understand there is judgement for their wrongdoings.

Well, if you had any idea what you were talking about, you would have written a different response.

I care about more than my own personal take on morality, it's arguments and debates on moral views that differ from my own, that might help enlighten me to better ideas on morality. And indeed, my moral views on certain issues have shifted with time, as is true for most people.

As for not wanting to be morally accountable, I reject that accusation out of hand and resent your condescending insult. I strictly hold myself accountable for my own actions, and I expect society as a whole to hold not only myself, but anyone else who may commit an immoral act accountable if one occurs.

The very thought that you need a god to hold you accountable cheapens and makes a mockery of morality and ethics. There is a judgment for wrongdoing without God, and that's imposed by ourselves, and the world in which we live. Saying all that is non-existent, and instead appealing to a cosmic sky daddy instead is simply absurd and counterproductive.

In fact, your religion is one where morality is irrelevant. You can be the most immoral heinous and nasty person to walk the earth, and all that doesn't matter, for as long as you believe Jesus saved you and consider yourself a sinner, it doesn't matter how bad of a person you are, you are saved. That is not a moral teaching, and that is not holding anyone accountable for their actions. That is blanket forgiveness, and that is not justice.

I asked you a simple question, why should we care what the views of the various churches are. I asked that in all seriousness, it was not tongue in cheek. The various churches you listed have a long history of some pretty immoral behaviour. On those grounds, I don't consider them to be great examples of morality.

However, if you think they deserve to be respected as moral leaders, I have asked you to demonstrate why that is, given their history. If you can provide a compelling reason, I would by necessity have to accept it. Are you able to do so?

 

[super animator]

Who cares if it's morality wrong or not? At the end of the day, there is no good secular reason to outlaw same-sex marriage.

 

[Cjwinnit]

Who cares if it's morality wrong or not?

Most of this forum, for a start

At the end of the day, there is no good secular reason to outlaw same-sex marriage.

At the end of the day the cows go to sleep.

You should extend the breadth of your reading material - some very detailed scholarly work has been undertaken on the precise question you raise and has come to varying conclusions. You aren't correct in saying there is none - if there was, marriage would have been made gender-neutral during the Communist era and the Enlightenment.

If there really was "no good secular reason", why do places like Japan, which has next-to-no Christian social presence, have normal marriage?

 

[super animator]

if there was, marriage would have been made gender-neutral during the Communist era and the Enlightenment.

If there really was "no good secular reason", why do places like Japan, which has next-to-no Christian social presence, have normal marriage?

You might as well say the same things such as slavery and racism.

"Normal" marriage? I have encounter a marriage that is not normal on the internet before that came from japan.

 

[Cjwinnit]

You might as well say the same things such as slavery and racism.

Rubbish. St Anselm spoke against slavery and persuaded the Council of Westminster to say: ‘Let no one hereafter presume to engage in that nefarious trade in which hitherto in England men were usually sold like brute animals.’

When, you ask? 1102.

 

[mindlight]

Guilty consciences? You seem to be suggesting that people who do not believe as you do somehow feel "guilty" for not believing as you do.

Not every body is honest with themselves in what they say. Some feel the deepest guilt and yet affirm the positions and actions from which this guilt derives. Others allow false and fabricated guilts to obscure the work of God to win them.

But only those who are saved or who are being saved feel most truly guilty for the affirmation of sin.

When he(The Spirit) comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment

the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

To the one we are an aroma that brings death; to the other, an aroma that brings life.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Not every body is honest with themselves in what they say. Some feel the deepest guilt and yet affirm the positions and actions from which this guilt derives. Others allow false and fabricated guilts to obscure the work of God to win them.

But only those who are saved or who are being saved feel most truly guilty for the affirmation of sin.

Now you are casting aspersions on people's honesty in stating their beliefs? I would suggest that you reconsider. People who do not believe as you do are not likely to feel guilty for not believing as you do. Do you feel guilt for not believing as they do? Of course not.

 

[Cjwinnit]

Now you are casting aspersions on people's honesty in stating their beliefs?

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’"

 

[Dave Ellis]

Not every body is honest with themselves in what they say. Some feel the deepest guilt and yet affirm the positions and actions from which this guilt derives. Others allow false and fabricated guilts to obscure the work of God to win them.

But only those who are saved or who are being saved feel most truly guilty for the affirmation of sin.

And not everyone is intellectually honest with the arguments they propose, an example of this is claims related to God.

It would make sense that those who believe that sin exists, and believe they are sinners feel the most guilt. Those that don't believe sin is real has no reason to feel guilt for things they did not do.

Guilt is only justified in situations where you actually wronged someone, not because of some mystical all-encompassing guilt imposed by some cosmic sky daddy for something you had no part in.

As far as honesty goes, I stand by my beliefs regarding theology quite strongly, however I am open to being proven wrong if someone presents a compelling case. That is open mindedness, and that is an honest position.

 

[Dave Ellis]

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’"

That's what she said.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

This thread is closed. It has gone way off topic from International Politics and turned into a general apologetics type thread.