so, Jehovah's Witnesses came to my door....

[Catherineanne]

you would not have to deny that at all. I also am grateful for my Anglican grandparents and parents who made sure I went to church and paid attention while there, got me active as a kid, etc. I am where I am because of them and the priests who first taught me. where I was raised pointed me to where I am now. ain't no denying that

Well, that is good to know. (Some) Catholics are very quick to tell me that Anglican sacraments are invalid, and that to be a Catholic I would have to believe the same. That is not going to happen, primarily because of my Godfather, but when I said so I was accused of pride.

It is one thing deciding according to my own conscience, but quite another to deny part of my family in that way.

 

[Catherineanne]

I am extremely grateful for my Anglican upbringing because it is where I was grounded in the faith. There is much that is right and good within the Anglican communion, and I will always honor that aspect of the Church where my parents and brothers still go, but having found the Orthodox faith, I can never return to the Anglican Church myself.

No; none of us can ever go back; that much is clear.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Well, that is good to know. (Some) Catholics are very quick to tell me that Anglican sacraments are invalid, and that to be a Catholic I would have to believe the same. That is not going to happen, primarily because of my Godfather, but when I said so I was accused of pride.

that's not our call to make. only God knows what goes on outside of the Orthodox Church. we do know where they are valid though. if that makes sense.

 

[Catherineanne]

that's not our call to make. only God knows what goes on outside of the Orthodox Church. we do know where they are valid though. if that makes sense.

Perfect sense. We can only speak for certain of what we know for certain. : )

 

[ArmyMatt]

Perfect sense. We can only speak for certain of what we know for certain. : )

haha indeed. there is a quote by St Theophan the recluse when someone asked if those outside of Orthodoxy will be saved. he told him not to worry, that God knows what He is doing with them.

 

[Catherineanne]

haha indeed. there is a quote by St Theophan the recluse when someone asked if those outside of Orthodoxy will be saved. he told him not to worry, that God knows what He is doing with them.

I am glad someone does. : )

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

When the JWs come to my door, I always say, "Jesus is God," and slam the door in their face. I have no patience for them.

Not a very Christian thing to do. IMHO

Hebrews 13
1 Let love of the brethren continue.
2 Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it.

 

[elbato]

The thing that concerns me about JW's and Mormons is that they put more weight on their own publications (Watchtower, book of Mormon) than they do on the Bible.
The first thing you need to do is question their version of the Bible. NWT translation was translated by a committee of people with little to no experience in Greek linguistics.
Dr.Franz was the lead translator and only had one semester of Greek education. Under oath in trial he couldn't even read a scripture in Greek when asked.
Debating a JW with scriptures will never work with them, you need to show them that their NWT of the Bible is a gross misinterpretation of Greek scriptures in an attempt to verify their doctrine.
To accommodate their doctrine view on the Trinity, they added words to the Greek scriptures in many places that any first year student of Greek linguistics would see aren't there. All of this was done in efforts to verify their belief system

 

[elbato]

I have a question for y'all. can any of you give me some quotes from the Fathers that clearly affirm Christ's Divinity? especially from the extremely early centuries. I gave the JW a homework assignment and I wanna be ready for next week. and yes, I will do my own homework on this as well, hahaha.

and anything concerning the state of the soul after death as well.

thanks guys and gals!

Concerning the state of the soul after death: 2 Corinthians 5:8 says "to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord"

 

[All4Christ]

I have a question for y'all. can any of you give me some quotes from the Fathers that clearly affirm Christ's Divinity? especially from the extremely early centuries. I gave the JW a homework assignment and I wanna be ready for next week. and yes, I will do my own homework on this as well, hahaha.

and anything concerning the state of the soul after death as well.

thanks guys and gals!

There are many - and the ones the others sent are great, but here are a few from Ignatius.

From Ignatius - in the epistle to the Ephesians, 18:2:


For our God, Jesus the Christ, was conceived by Mary according to God’s plan . . .

In 19:3 he states:

Consequently all magic and every kind of spell were dissolved, the ignorance so characteristic of wickedness vanished, and the ancient kingdom was abolished, when God appeared in human form to bring the newness of eternal life . . .

In 7:2 he states:

There is only one physician, who is both flesh and spirit, born and unborn, God in man, true life in death, both from Mary and from God, first subject to suffering and then beyond it, Jesus Christ our Lord.

And in 1:1

Being as you are imitators of God, once you took on new life through the blood of God you completed perfectly the task so natural to you.

In his letter to the Smyrnaeans 1:1 over whom Polycarp was Bishop he states:

I glorify Jesus Christ, the God who made you so wise . . .

 

[ArmyMatt]

thanks everyone! round 9 today, please keep me in your prayers!

 

[~Anastasia~]

thanks everyone! round 9 today, please keep me in your prayers!

Prayers!

 

[ArmyMatt]

so I just had round 10 the other day, and I think Orthodoxy is finally getting under his skin. he kept saying that all the dead are unconscious until Christ's resurrection, when He fills in whatever they missed then. so I asked how Moses would have known about Christ's passion at the Transfiguration.

so anymore prayers or advice would be most welcome!

 

[RobNJ]

so I just had round 10 the other day, and I think Orthodoxy is finally getting under his skin. he kept saying that all the dead are unconscious until Christ's resurrection, when He fills in whatever they missed then. so I asked how Moses would have known about Christ's passion at the Transfiguration.

so anymore prayers or advice would be most welcome!

I take it, you've already mentioned the parable of the rich man & Lazarus?

 

[truefiction1]

I take it, you've already mentioned the parable of the rich man & Lazarus?

They try to pass this test by making an argument that the story is purely a parable and does not prove a literal existence of consciousness after death. Then they point to other biblical verses that they believe show otherwise and, on the basis of these state that "the story of the rich man and lazarus must not be taken literally on account of what the Bible clearly teaches about death".

 

[truefiction1]

so I just had round 10 the other day, and I think Orthodoxy is finally getting under his skin. he kept saying that all the dead are unconscious until Christ's resurrection, when He fills in whatever they missed then. so I asked how Moses would have known about Christ's passion at the Transfiguration.

so anymore prayers or advice would be most welcome!

Lord have mercy.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I take it, you've already mentioned the parable of the rich man & Lazarus?

yup

They try to pass this test by making an argument that the story is purely a parable and does not prove a literal existence of consciousness after death. Then they point to other biblical verses that they believe show otherwise and, on the basis of these state that "the story of the rich man and lazarus must not be taken literally on account of what the Bible clearly teaches about death".

and yup. I got around this by asking why Christ, Who called Himself the Truth, would use false theology in a parable (they claim something similar for the Transfiguration, so I asked a similar question).

Lord have mercy.

thanks! and on a sidebar, I know a week or two ago you said you would be around St Tikhon's, and I wonder if I saw you there on a Saturday (I think) right before closing. there was someone new that I did not recognize and it was the same weekend you said you would be around.

 

[truefiction1]

yup



and yup. I got around this by asking why Christ, Who called Himself the Truth, would use false theology in a parable (they claim something similar for the Transfiguration, so I asked a similar question).



thanks! and on a sidebar, I know a week or two ago you said you would be around St Tikhon's, and I wonder if I saw you there on a Saturday (I think) right before closing. there was someone new that I did not recognize and it was the same weekend you said you would be around.

I never made it out of Scranton til it was time to return home, so no... I never made it up that mountain. We had two young boys with us so it was hard to get around.

I love visiting there. I came with my wife and a son a couple years ago and recalled so many things from my time there, back when Metropolitan Herman was still a bishop under Theodosius and he was teaching us a class on reading Slavonic. Those were the days.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Good to hear an update. I was wondering the other day how things were going and if they were still visiting. Interesting that they keep coming back and talking to you ...

You have my prayers!!!

 

[ArmyMatt]

I never made it out of Scranton til it was time to return home, so no... I never made it up that mountain. We had two young boys with us so it was hard to get around.

I love visiting there. I came with my wife and a son a couple years ago and recalled so many things from my time there, back when Metropolitan Herman was still a bishop under Theodosius and he was teaching us a class on reading Slavonic. Those were the days.

ah bummer, glad I didn't open my mouth then. hope you do swing around!