so, Jehovah's Witnesses came to my door....

ArmyMatt

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well, another one down where we discussed the soul after death and the Personhood of the Holy Spirit. if any of you that speak Greek out there can hook a brother up with some Greek context (for the HS Personhood and soul after death in Greek of course), I would be much obliged.
 
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buzuxi02

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Not sure if it would matter. I was speaking to a greek jehovahs witness once and told him why his religion believes Christ was crucified on a upright stake when the greek text clearly says stavro. He said the original koine greek never used the word stavro ( implying the scripture was tampered with). On the other hand non-greek JW's are told the greek word stavro means upright pillar but the roman changed the meaning of the word!.
So they use different lies for different nationalities.

Christ said he will send "another paraclete", (allon parakleton.
Allo-another; means an equal substitute of the same nature, in other words He will send another helper equal to Christ, another anointed one. Thus Christ saw himself as an advocate as well thats why the apostle John calls Christ a paraclete in (1 Jn 2:1).

As i said the word allo; unlike hetero(another of different quality) or homo(identical quality), denotes one who is numerically distinct but is an identical substitute and an equal stand in:

Mark 10:12 Adj-AMS
GRK: αὐτῆς γαμήσῃ λλον μοιχᾶται (another husband in this case)
KJV: be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Mark 12:4 Adj-AMS
GRK: πρὸς αὐτοὺς ἄλλον δοῦλον κἀκεῖνον
NAS: he sent them another slave,

GRK: τριῶν ἡμερῶν ἄλλον ἀχειροποίητον οἰκοδομήσω
NAS: I will build another made without hands

John 20:2 Adj-AMS
GRK: πρὸς τὸν ἄλλον μαθητὴν ὃν
NAS: Peter and to the other disciple

2 Corinthians 11:4 Adj-AMS
GRK: ὁ ἐρχόμενος ἄλλον Ἰησοῦν κηρύσσει
NAS: and preaches another Jesus
 
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buzuxi02

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I imagine the JW's have heard most of the arguments and have invented excuses to justify their heresy of declaring the Holy Spirit the "active force" of jehovah.

They like to claim the word trinity is not found in scripture but neither is the term 'active force'. Of course triados/trinitas is implied in verses like Genesis 18.1-3 and Revelation 22.1:

Rev 22.1- And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb.
John 7:38-3- He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive...
(So in Revelation 22.1 all three hypostasis are depicted upon the throne of God.)

Now what excuse they use to explain away the following verses i dont know,but are probably the same ones for the past 60 years, they are trained using the same outdated 'manual':

2 Corinthians 13:1- The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all. Amen. (Not sure how you can have fellowship with an active force or why it would be numbered among Jehovah and Jesus. As mentioned in my previous post not sure how an active force can be an advocate-paraclete, and 'another advocate' akin to Jesus at that.)


2Corinthians3.17- Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
(Why is an active force called Kyrios?)

Romans 8:26- Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. (How does an active force make intercessions?)

Acts 13.2- As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.. (Why would an active force speak for itself as 'I Am' and not on behalf of jehovah?)

Hebrews 3English Standard Version (ESV)

7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says,
“Today, if you hear his voice,
8 do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
on the day of testing in the wilderness,
9 where your fathers put me to the test
and saw my works for forty years.
10 Therefore I was provoked with that generation,
and said, ‘They always go astray in their heart;
they have not known my ways.’
11 As I swore in my wrath,
‘They shall not enter my rest.’”
(Sounds like the Holy Spirit is alot more than just an active force. And yes the koine greek does imply the Holy Spirit spoke the above words and that it was this same Holy Spirit that was put to the test and provoked. Not sure how you provoke unto wrath a non-person energy).

Sorry for the different font sizes.
 
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Soma Seer

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and we actually had a good discussion that lasted almost 3 hours. they will be coming back next Monday-ish for round two over some tea....

Honestly, that is not how I imagined things had gone, judging by this thread's title. True, the assumption is on me, but still... What a fun surprise the truth turned out to be. :D
 
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Orthodoxjay1

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Do the JW's actually believe Jesus Christ is the Archangel Michael? I had one of them say this before trying to convert me and when they departed in disappointment, I couldn't stop laughing like "where in the world did they get that from".
 
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Do the Jw's actually believe Jesus Christ is the Archangel Michael? I had one of them say this before trying to convert me and when they departed in disappointment I couldn't stop laughing like "where in the world did they get that from"
They get it from their reading of the Book of Revelation, If I'm not mistaken, because the apocalyptic imagery and wording can easily lead to some confusion about who exactly is who in the description of the battle.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Honestly, that is not how I imagined things had gone, judging by this thread's title. True, the assumption is on me, but still... What a fun surprise the truth turned out to be. :D

indeed!
 
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~Anastasia~

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They get it from their reading of the Book of Revelation, If I'm not mistaken, because the apocalyptic imagery and wording can easily lead to some confusion about who exactly is who in the description of the battle.
I think some texts from the OT as well. Referring to "the Angel of The Lord"? And some other bits in the OT, but I can't recall them right now.

I have had it all "explained" to me before, but have forgotten a very great deal. But it is because of a number of misinterpreted Scriptures; you're certainly right about that.
 
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ArmyMatt

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They get it from their reading of the Book of Revelation, If I'm not mistaken, because the apocalyptic imagery and wording can easily lead to some confusion about who exactly is who in the description of the battle.

and Michael is the only one identified as an archangel in Scripture
 
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Lord Kyrios

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and we actually had a good discussion that lasted almost 3 hours. they will be coming back next Monday-ish for round two over some tea, and I was wondering if any of you had any success in witnessing to them.

thanks! and may they come home to the true Church!
Jesus Is God In The Jehovah Witness Kingdom Interlinear Greek Scriptures
 
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Stabat Mater dolorosa

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Jesus Is God In The Jehovah Witness Kingdom Interlinear Greek Scriptures

No he`s not.
According to the JWs own theology Jesus only had a human nature and not a Divine.
In regards to Orthodox Christianity this is perhaps the greatest of all Christological heresies that is.
 
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