Smacking Children

[Leanna]

And in case you think I am kidding, Proverbs 31:6,7

6 Give beer to those who are perishing,
wine to those who are in anguish;
7 let them drink and forget their poverty
and remember their misery no more.

 

[SallyNow]

Yes, you are telling the child what not to do--but this also tells them what to do--the opposite of the wrong. Psychology course! Ha! I laugh! None of those ever worked within my family or within my friends' families (and I have quite a few friends)! Sorry--didn't mean to say it like that. I have nothing against psychology courses. Positive reinforcement techniques? Please elaborate and we'll discuss. I as a toddler had no difficulty making the connction. My parents made it clear what I had done wrong before and after the spanking. Spanking was very helpful! It reminds me even today of what I should do and what I should not do based on all those lectures and spankings (of which there where quite a few).

I find it very interesting that you promote spanking as being good for creating people who respect others, and then go and disrespect very well-done, well-documented, and thorough, proven research, and those who do the research...not to mention parents that have used no spanking at all and yet have raised, brilliant, respectable, kind, caring, creative people.

Spanking need not be part of a parent's tool box. Creativy, however, is a must. I know so many people who were raised with little or no spanking and yet are wonderful, discilined, creative, intelligent, kind, and caring human beings, and Christians.

 

[Becky153]

Ok, "little devil" are your words. What makes you judge yourself that way? What was it about you, that you consider devilish now?
And, more important: What do you think made you a "little devil"? Had you been born that way, with this severe disadvantage compared to other kids who are not "little devils"?
I have never seen a "little devil" in child´s disguise, and I do not believe there are such. There are children who are not as easy to handle as others.


Yes, I have been spanked a few times. It didn´t impress me much. I felt my parents were ridiculing themselves. I was sort of embarassed for them.
I was more impressed by psychical forms of pressure and conditioning, which btw. I think are as harmful and counterproductive as physical ones.

Ok...if you met me...whoooooo boy. I swore a lot (I don't even know where I learned these words!!!!), and I also was abusive. Not so anymore--after being tattled on and punished I quickly learned not to do it. Why did you feel they were ridiculing themselves?

 

[fillerbunny]

I wasn't talking about myself in the corner in that part; sorry that it wasn't clear.

Actually, that was kind of my point. Children are individuals. What you found to be an embittering experience, another child found rewarding. That's why it's so imperative that parents tailor both rewards and consequences to their individual children. What works best for one won't necessarily be successful with another.

 

[Leanna]

Ok...if you met me...whoooooo boy. I swore a lot (I don't even know where I learned these words!!!!), and I also was abusive. Not so anymore--after being tattled on and punished I quickly learned not to do it. Why did you feel they were ridiculing themselves?

Becky, did you read my whole post with the references? One of the results research has found is that children who were spanked had a higher incidence of bullying aggression and reactive aggression, which is exactly what you are describing here. Perhaps you should take a closer look.

 

[Becky153]

I find it very interesting that you promote spanking as being good for creating people who respect others, and then go and disrespect very well-done, well-documented, and thorough, proven research, and those who do the research...not to mention parents that have used no spanking at all and yet have raised, brilliant, respectable, kind, caring, creative people.

Spanking need not be part of a parent's tool box. Creativy, however, is a must. I know so many people who were raised with little or no spanking and yet are wonderful, discilined, creative, intelligent, kind, and caring human beings, and Christians.

Miss_liz respects you and she's for spanking. My parents used spanking, and I feel that they were right to do so. Nothing else worked. Grounding--I thought that was a time they set aside for me to play around in my room! The corner I hated. Only spanking seemed to work. Creativity--well--yes. I have a question--do you believe that I am not a Christian? I am, I know that I am. I've been a Christian for 10 years now. I am brilliant--at school (other things maybe not so much). I am kind and caring--why else does everyone who's met me likes me? Well--most everyone. I am creative. You can't really be in band if you're not creative--nor advanced language arts. Spanking is sort of a resort to use--it won't kill them and it disciplines them if nothing else will.

 

[quatona]

... what do you do with children?

I think it´s fairly simple: You respect them and they experience the advantages of being respected and respectful to one´s fellow beings.
The finger that points to the moon...
Granted, it takes some patience at times.

 

[Becky153]

Becky, did you read my whole post with the references? One of the results research has found is that children who were spanked had a higher incidence of bullying aggression and reactive aggression, which is exactly what you are describing here. Perhaps you should take a closer look.

Yes, I did read your post. My ex. was before I was spanked and disciplined--when my parents decided to use grounding and the corner (which obviously did not work).

 

[Becky153]

I think it´s fairly simple: You respect them and they experience the advantages of being respected and respectful to one´s fellow beings.

Okay, I'm saying that this is my experience, not anyone else's. They respected me, I felt I had control. I had the power. I could do anything; they'd let me do it. Personally, I think that if they had respected me more I would've rampaged and taken control of the household.

 

[Leanna]

I think it´s fairly simple: You respect them and they experience the advantages of being respected and respectful to one´s fellow beings.
The finger that points to the moon...
Granted, it takes some patience at times.

I meant what do you do for a job with children? Or with 25 years do you mean your own children? I thought you meant you were a child social worker or something....

 

[Leanna]

Yes, I did read your post. My ex. was before I was spanked and disciplined--when my parents decided to use grounding and the corner (which obviously did not work).

Okay, okay, NOW I understand. Even most spanking parents will agree that by the age that you have boyfriends you are way too old to spank. I think spanking parents would be shocked also by this statement. Anyway, moving on, I see it like this: an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Oh dear.... shall I get into it? Why not. Some things are exceedingly more complex than "to spank or not to spank" You see, I believe that Maria Montessori was correct in her observation of the importance of the toddler years. However, I do not have 15 years experience to back that up on but I'll get there.

I believe that if you had been taught to LISTEN and OBEY when you were small (especially the toddler years) then it would not have gotten out of control into your older child and teenage years. Thus the observation that spanking is not necessary is also part of my belief that if you teach them early, you won't have to spank a teenager or anything else shocking.

 

[Leanna]

Okay, I'm saying that this is my experience, not anyone else's. They respected me, I felt I had control. I had the power. I could do anything; they'd let me do it. Personally, I think that if they had respected me more I would've rampaged and taken control of the household.

I believe the word you are looking for is permissive. Your parents were permissive, and so you had the control and the power. Permissive means tolerant, lenient and optional. Respect is an entirely different issue.

 

[quatona]

Ok...if you met me...whoooooo boy. I swore a lot (I don't even know where I learned these words!!!!),

Every young person does that for a certain period. I don´t see a major problem with that.
Do you remember or do you have any idea what your purpose was in swearing?

and I also was abusive.

What did you hope or expect to gain by that? Do you remember?

Why did you feel they were ridiculing themselves?

I don´t know, it was just this feeling. They lost their authority, in my eyes. I have always felt that using physical strength against others is a sign of weakness, it is the last resort of those who are dominated by fear. I have always felt that it is a sign of failure.
That´s probably what my parents always told me, when it came to conflicts between me and other kids (and between adults): There are better means of solving them than violence.
I guess that doing it themselves made them lose quite some of their credibility and integrity, in my eyes.

 

[TexasSky]

I have a question: do any of you know someone who was spanked? If you do, are they more or less disciplined than those just left alone to deal with it themselves in 'better' ways?

I know many who were.
The ones who were spanked all went through a stage where, when they were physically large enough to rebel and not fear spanking simply because they were bigger, DID rebel - and in very self-damaging ways. They were the ones who drank to prove they could, who had sex to prove they could, etc.

The ones who were disciplined with methods that leaned more toward "reasoning," "logic," "consequences that matched the action," did not go through the major rebellions. They tended more to look at "why" their parents had said no, rather than "they can't hit me anymore."

 

[quatona]

I meant what do you do for a job with children? Or with 25 years do you mean your own children? I thought you meant you were a child social worker or something....

I am a private guitar teacher, and for me that´s not about telling them where to put their fingers on the fretboard. It´s social work, it´s psychological work.
You mentioned Montessori. I am very interested in alternative school forms, have been to quite some congresses concerning this topic, and am in persistent exchange with teachers of several alternative schools.
Scandinavia is far ahead in that department; I hope we will catch up sooner or later (but I´m afraid that won´t happen in my lifetime).

 

[quatona]

Okay, I'm saying that this is my experience, not anyone else's. They respected me, I felt I had control. I had the power. I could do anything; they'd let me do it. Personally, I think that if they had respected me more I would've rampaged and taken control of the household.

It seems like we have a very different ideas as to what "respect" means.

 

[TexasSky]

Even Dobson calls spanking "a last restort" and recommends it only up to the age of 8.

 

[Leanna]

Is it possible that most of the people who are strongly anti-slapping do not have children of their own?

No. I mentioned in an earlier post, I post at a board only for non spanking Christian parents. None of us spank or slap and many have a larger number of children and more years experience than I.

 

[Mrs.Sidhe]

I have a question: do any of you know someone who was spanked? If you do, are they more or less disciplined than those just left alone to deal with it themselves in 'better' ways?

Actually most of the people I know have been spanked as children..(as we live in the bible belt of the south).

Most of them (including myself--except my "spankings" where more like beating the ever living crap out of you type things), where no more well behaved than the people who wheren't spanked...in some cases they where worse, and due to their treatment, thought the proper way of dealing with anger and problems was to pretty much hit someone...What a great example.

I'm not glad my father hit me. In fact, it made me experience serious anger which lead to him and I permanently parting ways around my 16th birthday. This was unfortunate, because we could never mend fences...even for my son's funeral. Its even doubly sad, because he died exactly 2 months after this.

I wasn't disciplined...I only did things the way my father wanted them done out of fear. Not out of love and respect or because I was "well behaved". After my father left my life, I followed my mom's rules perfectly fine..without being beaten.

My husband who was never spanked turned out perfectly fine and never had a problem following his mom's rules growing up.

In any case you are 15 years old, and are hardly a judge of proper parenting techniques. Just because one this is good for the goose DOES NOT make it good for the gander.

I have a proposition...how about you acutally prove those children who are spanked/hit/slapped whatever, are well behaved and disciplined, (and not just doing things the "right way" because they are scared someone is going to knock them for a loop)

Good luck......

 

[SallyNow]

Miss_liz respects you and she's for spanking. My parents used spanking, and I feel that they were right to do so. Nothing else worked. Grounding--I thought that was a time they set aside for me to play around in my room! The corner I hated. Only spanking seemed to work. Creativity--well--yes. I have a question--do you believe that I am not a Christian? I am, I know that I am. I've been a Christian for 10 years now. I am brilliant--at school (other things maybe not so much). I am kind and caring--why else does everyone who's met me likes me? Well--most everyone. I am creative. You can't really be in band if you're not creative--nor advanced language arts. Spanking is sort of a resort to use--it won't kill them and it disciplines them if nothing else will.

I was in no way trying to say that you were anything. Sorry that it came off that way!

I was simply stating that in my experience, spanking is unnecessary. There are much better ways to raise children, and I have seen them work over and over.

Positive reinforcement, channelling excessive energy into positive activities, natural reprocustions, and of course, making sure children are given time to be kids are all very good methods of raising kids without spanking.

Again, I am not going to chastise a parent who once in blue moon resorts to smacking their child's hand because the child threw a plate at the wall. But making them clean up that plate-and patch and paint the wall-will actually teach them something, too. And more, if that kid is then put in some sort of sports activity where they are allowed to throw things, they will be channelling that energy into something positive. All of this will do much more to prevent a child from doing bad things than simply spanking them.

Excessive spanking can kill. Excessive time-outs will simply improve a child's imagination.