Smacking Children

[quatona]

Just a point: I've done martial arts for almost all my life, and it's 100% true that just because you're hit doesn't mean you're harmed, and just because you feel pain doesn't mean you're damaged

This is certainly true. Just think of the heavy pats that sportsmen give their buddies when they are successful. The same done in the bus from an unknown person would be perceived as offence.
Now, how does that help with the topic at hand? Are we talking about parents patting their kids on the tush as a sign of encouragement or approval, out of a sudden?
Are we talking about a game situation everybody involved in has agreed with the conditions and rules of (as it is the fact in martial arts)?
If you do what you do to your martial arts buddies to someone else in public (or if someone did it to you), this will be seen entirely differently.
What are we talking about? If I haven´t missed anything important, we are talking about means to make another, physically weaker and dependent person submit to your rules by using your physical advantages.
I may indeed have missed something - that´s why I keep asking for the desired effects that make people consider spanking a means "that works". Unfortunately, people seem to be very hesitant to answer this question.

 

[quatona]

I understand your reasoning here. I too would prefer that a child of mine understood the reasons why certain behaviours are not acceptable and did not simply avoid them because he/she was afraid of the consequences. In some cases the end result of fear tactics might be that a child reballed against the whole regime in later years when they were able to become independent. However, I do think that a certain amount of what you describe as 'conditioning' is inevitable when you are raising a child.

Yes, it is. We adults are the stronger persons, and we can´t discuss it away, and we can´t pretend it is not so.
Even our advanced skills in reasoning (which I am not always sure is an accurate assumption in view of the way many adults reason, btw.) can make us use reasoning as a weapon against the child.
What I am, however, trying to achieve is reducing this conditioning to the absolute "inevitable". Physical force is completely evitable, in my opinion and in my experience. Lots of other conditioning means we "naturally" use when communicating with kids, are evitable as well. A lot of things can be learned (or un-learned, in this case).
Phyisical punishment is "conditioning" in its purest form, as far as I can see.
If the kid understands my reasoning, physical punishment is redundant. If it does not understand it, physical punishment works exactly against my intention to make the kid understand.

For example, if you use 'time-out' as a consequence for a particular infraction, then what eventually compels the child not to repeat the 'offence' is the fact that he or she does not want to be put in 'time-out'. Better than out and out fear, I know, but still a form of conditioning instilled by parental control tactics.

Yes. I am not sure I find that strategy significantly better.
Where I come from, we are trying to improve ourselves rather than telling children to do what we are not able to do ourselves. Not always successfully - granted, conceded and admitted. But I don´t see any point in blaming a child for reflecting my shortcomings, or punishing him/her for it.
Frequently parents of my little students complain about their children "I have no idea why he/she is that way.", and it takes me a lot of self-control not to tell them straight in the face that to me it´s as obvious as can be.

 

[TexasSky]

I am old enough to know the difference between right and wrong and to take responsibilty for my own actions and their consequences therefore it is not for my husband or anyone else to teach me these things through spanking or anything else. In the case of my young child, it is for me to teach him/her these things, and it is for me to take responsibilty for them until such time as my child can do this for his/herself. As to getting him to 'do it my way' that isn't what it's about in any case. It's about instilling and maintaining a sense of right and wrong and of the acceptable and unacceptable.

If you freely admit that your child is too young to know right from wrong, how is spanking or hitting going to change what reasoning, time-out, or other boundaries could not? Too young is too young.

 

[TexasSky]

I wonder whether anyone can give me their opinion about smacking children. I never slap my children and until recently I had a no-slapping rule in my household.

However, my wife does slap the children occasionally and was very upset recently when a social worker saw her slapping one of our children. The social worker made a huge issue out of it and tried to prosecute.

Luckily my wife foresaw the furore which would ensue and took our child to the doctor immediately. The doctor examined our child and could find no mark on him. The social worker was therefore unable to take the matter further.

This incident has had a very stressful effect on us, as a family. Does anyone else have any similar experiences?

Blackbird,

One thing that we have not addressed yet is the fact that biblically speaking, you are the head of your household. It would seem that if you disapprove of slapping your children - your wife should honor you, and look for a method of discipline that you do support.

 

[suzybeezy]

closing for staff review