Smacking Children

[miss_liz]

^But that isn't the attitude most parents take. My parents would have loved it if they could have used methods other than spanking. But most of the time, that didn't work. Spanking a child is not beating a child! Beating is done with malice; spanking is not.

 

[ebia]

But see, my parents tried that with me. It just does not work with every child. If my mom or dad did not respond to my sassing, I just sassed them more. They don't care...why should I? My parents did instill fear in me to a degree...instead of wanting to disappoint them, I was eager to please.

What evidence do you have that the reason it didn't work is something about your nature rather than a lack in their technique?

 

[miss_liz]

Because the non-spanking technique worked with my older sister and to a degree with my younger sister.
Also if it were due to my nature--that would only imply non-spanking doesn't work for everyone.

 

[ottaia]

What evidence do you have that the reason it didn't work is something about your nature rather than a lack in their technique?

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ebia again.
​

 

[policy4ev]

Anyways back to the real topic here. Punishment may not work in some areas, but obviously it works or else we would be frightened to leave our own house for fear someone might kill us.

 

[ottaia]

Anyways back to the real topic here. Punishment may not work in some areas, but obviously it works or else we would be frightened to leave our own house for fear someone might kill us.

But do you want your kid acting out of fear or acting out of a sense of personal integrity?

 

[policy4ev]

Integrity of course. But if we can't teach them right from wrong? How do they learn personal integrity?

 

[ebia]

Anyways back to the real topic here. Punishment may not work in some areas, but obviously it works or else we would be frightened to leave our own house for fear someone might kill us.

Most people don't kill people because they understand right from wrong. Punishment is a pretty poor way of dealing with the small number who don't. It's only partially effective at the best of times, and completely ineffective when the possibility of punishment is not present or appears to not be present.

Because the non-spanking technique worked with my older sister and to a degree with my younger sister.

Some children are more difficult to manage than others, that doesn't mean that any child cannot be managed without physical punishment. The fact that they "needed" to use it on two out of three children is a strong indicator that their other techniques were far from perfect.

I repeat again unless people have missed it - effective discipline does not come naturally - it's something that has to be studied, planned and supported at least as much as any other aspect of teaching (which is what effective discipline needs to be).

 

[ottaia]

Integrity of course. But if we can't teach them right from wrong? How do they learn personal integrity?

Sorry, I am not going to back down. I agree with ebia, raising kids is difficult and it is not intuitive. You will generally use the same techniques your parents used. If all you have is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail. Unfortunately, the whole world is not a nail. All kids are not the same, true. But as an adult, we should be able to model appropriate behavior for our kids. Modeling hitting only reinforces the idea that when we want something we can hit someone to make it happen.

I was spanked once, it did not change my behavior, all it did was make me hate my dad.

 

[miss_liz]

Some children are more difficult to manage than others, that doesn't mean that any child cannot be managed without physical punishment. The fact that they "needed" to use it on two out of three children is a strong indicator that their other techniques were far from perfect.

I repeat again unless people have missed it - effective discipline does not come naturally - it's something that has to be studied, planned and supported at least as much as any other aspect of teaching (which is what effective discipline needs to be).

I don't think you realize what you are saying. There is not only one way to discipline a child. Spanking is a disciplinary method. It is not abuse. I have never viewed it as abuse and I don't understand how people contend it is abuse, then go on to say the parents don't know how to effectively discipline their child because they spanked their child. I disagree. Sometimes a spanking is needed to get the point across to the child. I was a stubborn child...I needed spankings to get me to realize I was doing something wrong.

 

[ottaia]

I don't think you realize what you are saying. There is not only one way to discipline a child. Spanking is a disciplinary method. It is not abuse. I have never viewed it as abuse and I don't understand how people contend it is abuse, then go on to say the parents don't know how to effectively discipline their child because they spanked their child. I disagree. Sometimes a spanking is needed to get the point across to the child. I was a stubborn child...I needed spankings to get me to realize I was doing something wrong.

(this is purely a hypothetical comment)
So, I should come over there and slap you for not agreeing with me because I am right! (that was a purley hypothetical comment)

 

[ottaia]

Good night people. Love your kids, don't beat them. Hug them, not hit them.

 

[miss_liz]

(this is purely a hypothetical comment)
So, I should come over there and slap you for not agreeing with me because I am right! (that was a purly hypothetical comment)

No, not at all. You are not my parent. My parents are the ones who are supposed to discipline me. And we were talking about spanking not slapping. I don't like slapping.

 

[policy4ev]

I agree, it is the job of the parents to discipline their children, not a strange person. The parents teach their kids right from wrong. Then the kids pass it on to their kids.
Also, I don't like slapping either.

 

[ebia]

Integrity of course. But if we can't teach them right from wrong? How do they learn personal integrity?

Punishment doesn't teach someone right from wrong. At best it teaches them to avoid actions that they will be punished for.

I don't think you realize what you are saying. There is not only one way to discipline a child.

Never said otherwise.

Spanking is a disciplinary method.

As it stands, a very poor one in the long run.

It is not abuse.

That's a matter of opinion.

I have never viewed it as abuse and I don't understand how people contend it is abuse, then go on to say the parents don't know how to effectively discipline their child because they spanked their child. I disagree. Sometimes a spanking is needed to get the point across to the child. I was a stubborn child...I needed spankings to get me to realize I was doing something wrong.

My contention is that you didn't need spankings, and that other techniques would have been much more effective had your parents been sufficiently well informed and well planned in using them.

 

[policy4ev]

So, are we supposed to just let the kids get away with things? Are you implying that every parent should punish kids in the same fashion and we would have a one world parent punishment system. Or should parents be able to teach their kids right from wrong in their own way?

 

[]RiSeN[]

Proverbs 13:24 "He who spares his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him promptly." The words of the second wisest man to walk the earth. The wisest man, Jesus, never said anything contrary. Id rather smack my children on the hand then let them touch the hot stove top.

 

[miss_liz]

^I agree totally!
ebia--not all children are alike...not all children learn alike...why would we assume the same methods work on all children?

 

[policy4ev]

AMEN!
If we don't teach our children that a hot stove will burn them, they will get burned someday when we can not be their to help them.
Also, all children are not alike. Some kids have a harder time learning things then others. Should we just teach them one way and not care who falls behind?

 

[ebia]

So, are we supposed to just let the kids get away with things?

I haven't seen anyone here suggest anything remotely close to that.

Are you implying that every parent should punish kids in the same fashion and we would have a one world parent punishment system.

Again, I haven't seen anyone here suggest anything remotely close to that.

Or should parents be able to teach their kids right from wrong in their own way?

Only within limits. There always have been limits, and those limits have changed in the past, are changing now, and doubtless will change in the future.

Not so long ago it was inconcievable that you could run a school without corporal punishment, now it's taken for granted in most western countries.

Our standards of what is and is not acceptable of parents is changing (as it has changed in the past).

I'm not suggesting that strickly limited physical punishment should actually be banned (at least not yet), but it should be discouraged in favour of better, more effective & less abusive, forms of discipline - which parents will need to be trained in.

ebia--not all children are alike...not all children learn alike...why would we assume the same methods work on all children?

I don't. I do assume that physical punishment is not the best for anyone.

If it were true that the need physical punshment varies by child then we ought to see it mostly vary by child. What we actually see is that it mostly varies by parent.