Skulls, Halloween, dark stuff...

[faroukfarouk]

Tins: Hope you don't mind the tattoo if it's slightly off topic but this is a combination of the skull and cross motifs which might be of interest: it could easily be turned into wallpaper or something instead:

tattoonow dot com

 

[faroukfarouk]

Of course, we are coming into pumpkin carving season!

(My wife loves pumpkin flavored muffins...)

 

[ViaCrucis]

This has been a great discussion...I am loving it...love learning stuff!

So what do you think about witches and decorating the house/car/whatever with witches?

Pointy-hat wart-nosed lades with cauldrons are mythical things like faeries and elves. That is, they just are what they are.

Real world witches, those who follow some form of Neo-Pagan belief system like Wicca, probably would make weird decoration. I've had several friends over the years who practice Wicca or some form of Neo-Pagan belief system, it would just be plain awkward to hang pictures of them on my house for any occasion.

But as far as the whole mythical/cartoony witch thing goes, they are make believe things so I would hardly see any problem. It would be no different than decorating using unicorns or goblins. Harmless fluff.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[nigheandonn]

This has been a great discussion...I am loving it...love learning stuff!

So what do you think about witches and decorating the house/car/whatever with witches?

Mind if I jump in here? I personally am totally against that sort of thing. Witchcraft is very real and very serious, and the Bible warns against it. I don't think it should be taken lately for the sake if a holiday. Do most real witches walk around in pointy hats? No, probably not, but some do, and I don't think you can adequately separate the cartoonish idea of a witch from the real thing. They're representations of the same thing.

I also don't think it's wise to normalize the idea of witchcraft for children or make it seem fake or like harmless fun.

 

[PaladinValer]

I'm not sure where else to put this thread so I thought this would be a good place to start.

In my walk, I have encountered many Christians who like things like skulls and dark clothing and weapons and things that I would consider to be more of the "dark side" kind of stuff. Usually when I question them about it, their response is that the devil wants us to think of it negatively, but that skulls are a good reminder of our mortality and so to live for Christ each day...and the dark clothing and weapons and stuff like that, most of them say it just looked cool to them, and they have no real moral conviction on either side of things.

Personally, I'm not into that kind of stuff at all. But I know many dear Christians who like that kind of stuff, some of whom show more real love of Christ than Christians who are "clean cut".

I probably won't participate much in this thread but I want to see what you all think. References to Scripture are much appreciated, and I also am interested in learning about that side of things, where it came from and stuff like that so I will check into any article posted to see what I can learn. Just curious!

I believe that if they don't have any moral conviction over it, then either God has not spoken to them yet about it, or maybe there is nothing wrong with it. I don't judge based on appearances, although I do believe in presenting ourselves in a way that people know we're different. But I also believe that presenting ourselves as such can be something as simple as just not swearing, or not complaining, or being kind...all things that seem to be missing in a lot of work places and community places. So I don't know if the presentation should be more focused on the inward or the outward. I know God looks at the heart, so you'd think He'd want us to look there too. I know people who will write off people who look "rough" without even talking to them to find out who they are. I could never do that. Some of the roughest looking people in my experience have some of the softest, most genuine of hearts.

Thoughts?

ETA: I don't like Halloween at all...the spider webs, skulls, stuff about ghosts...I'm also leery about the ghost/supernatural stuff. That would go right up there with the "dark stuff" in my book and I try to stay away from it.

This doesn't compute with practicing Christianity. Christianity is founded on the brutal, bloody execution of an innocent, who was resurrected three days later. One cannot have the resurrection without the brutality, blood, and gore before it.

 

[Wandering Cat Lady]

Mind if I jump in here? I personally am totally against that sort of thing. Witchcraft is very real and very serious, and the Bible warns against it. I don't think it should be taken lately for the sake if a holiday. Do most real witches walk around in pointy hats? No, probably not, but some do, and I don't think you can adequately separate the cartoonish idea of a witch from the real thing. They're representations of the same thing.

I also don't think it's wise to normalize the idea of witchcraft for children or make it seem fake or like harmless fun.

Don't mind a bit.

See that's where I'm coming from. I don't think it's a good idea to normalize something like that...but others that I know are totally fine with it because it's just play or whatever.

I told someone recently that I draw the line at witches. I can get over the skull thing, I can get over the tattoo thing, but witches and anything to do with that, nope. I draw the line.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Mind if I jump in here? I personally am totally against that sort of thing. Witchcraft is very real and very serious, and the Bible warns against it. I don't think it should be taken lately for the sake if a holiday. Do most real witches walk around in pointy hats? No, probably not, but some do, and I don't think you can adequately separate the cartoonish idea of a witch from the real thing. They're representations of the same thing.

I also don't think it's wise to normalize the idea of witchcraft for children or make it seem fake or like harmless fun.

What real-world witches go around wearing pointy hats?

I know I don't get out as much as I should, but has Hazel been spotted at the local shopping mall and I didn't know it?

Real world "witchcraft" isn't the stuff of cartoons, video games, fantasy novels, and movies. People aren't flying around on broomsticks and waving wands around using fake Latin. There is no Hogwarts, and there is no One Ring to rule them all.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Wandering Cat Lady]

This doesn't compute with practicing Christianity. Christianity is founded on the brutal, bloody execution of an innocent, who was resurrected three days later. One cannot have the resurrection without the brutality, blood, and gore before it.

Sure, and you have a good point there.

But why focus on (or even like) something that represents the nasty side of it, the dark side of it? I guess there is nothing wrong with remembering that side of it too...but with that said, I feel "Christ is risen", He's alive, He's victorious...so focusing on or actively engaging in things that represent death, doesn't make sense to me. Why not celebrate his life?

 

[James Is Back]

Wait a minute you telling me elves aren't real? What's next the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny aren't real either

 

[nigheandonn]

This doesn't compute with practicing Christianity. Christianity is founded on the brutal, bloody execution of an innocent, who was resurrected three days later. One cannot have the resurrection without the brutality, blood, and gore before it.

Do we want to celebrate that? The fact that Jesus was willing to go through it, absolutely, but brutality itself? Brutality, not love, is the image that's projected in a lot of people's minds when they see certain types of clothing or certain symbols.

Don't mind a bit. See that's where I'm coming from. I don't think it's a good idea to normalize something like that...but others that I know are totally fine with it because it's just play or whatever. I told someone recently that I draw the line at witches. I can get over the skull thing, I can get over the tattoo thing, but witches and anything to do with that, nope. I draw the line.

Witchcraft is very, very serious. I didn't know how serious it was as a child and nearly got sucked into it, and the only reason I didn't was that I did understand how serious it was when I got a bit older because I some people who had had very scary experiences. I don't celebrate Halloween anymore because in my opinion it's just impossible to separate it from the associations with paganism, witchcraft, and the occult. There are representations of those things everywhere on Halloween. You can't escape it.

 

[nigheandonn]

What real-world witches go around wearing pointy hats? I know I don't get out as much as I should, but has Hazel been spotted at the local shopping mall and I didn't know it? Real world "witchcraft" isn't the stuff of cartoons, video games, fantasy novels, and movies. People aren't flying around on broomsticks and waving wands around using fake Latin. There is no Hogwarts, and there is no One Ring to rule them all. -CryptoLutheran

I'm all too aware of that, trust me. There actually are some witches out there who wear the hats, although they're in the minority.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Don't mind a bit.

See that's where I'm coming from. I don't think it's a good idea to normalize something like that...but others that I know are totally fine with it because it's just play or whatever.

I told someone recently that I draw the line at witches. I can get over the skull thing, I can get over the tattoo thing, but witches and anything to do with that, nope. I draw the line.

Okay, so what do you think of pumpkin skull carving competitions for the fall?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtkvDJFSzig

 

[PaladinValer]

Sure, and you have a good point there.

But why focus on (or even like) something that represents the nasty side of it, the dark side of it? I guess there is nothing wrong with remembering that side of it too...but with that said, I feel "Christ is risen", He's alive, He's victorious...so focusing on or actively engaging in things that represent death, doesn't make sense to me. Why not celebrate his life?

Death, at least in the biological sense, is not evil; that's part of the problem in your theology.

The other problem is the entire dualism: death has a valued place in Christianity along with life. In death, we find life and gain it.

 

[Wandering Cat Lady]

Wait a minute you telling me elves aren't real? What's next the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny aren't real either

Yes, I'm sorry........I have to burst your bubble...umm also, Santa isn't real.

Witchcraft is very, very serious. I didn't know how serious it was as a child and nearly got sucked into it, and the only reason I didn't was that I did understand how serious it was when I got a bit older because I some people who had had very scary experiences. I don't celebrate Halloween anymore because in my opinion it's just impossible to separate it from the associations with paganism, witchcraft, and the occult. There are representations of those things everywhere on Halloween. You can't escape it.

Yes, it IS very serious. Thank you for finally putting some words to what my thoughts were.

 

[Wandering Cat Lady]

Death, at least in the biological sense, is not evil; that's part of the problem in your theology.

The other problem is the entire dualism: death has a valued place in Christianity along with life. In death, we find life and gain it.

That's true, I hadn't thought about it that way...hmm...food for thought, for sure.

Why would I associate death as a bad thing? I don't know...lol...now, I am a pretty simple person on a theological level and I know that. A LOT goes over my head. I do question from time to time, as I am doing now. So don't mind me if sometimes the stuff just goes right over me. But this seems like something maybe I could correct in my theology...death = dark and I don't know why, because I'm going to Heaven, therefore, as a believer, death = life lol

 

[nigheandonn]

That's true, I hadn't thought about it that way...hmm...food for thought, for sure. Why would I associate death as a bad thing? I don't know...lol...now, I am a pretty simple person on a theological level and I know that. A LOT goes over my head. I do question from time to time, as I am doing now. So don't mind me if sometimes the stuff just goes right over me. But this seems like something maybe I could correct in my theology...death = dark and I don't know why, because I'm going to Heaven, therefore, as a believer, death = life lol

The Bible talks about Christ defeating death. That could be where that association comes from. Personally I don't feel the biological perspective alone is enough to throw out any concerns.

 

[James Is Back]

Yes, I'm sorry........I have to burst your bubble...umm also, Santa isn't real.

 

[Wandering Cat Lady]

That's true. The Bible does sort of see death as a bad thing, well, maybe not bad, but like you said, death is defeated. So why would we want to celebrate, lift up, or make light of something so heavy? For many, death is the end, a horrible, terrible, dark end.

 

[Wandering Cat Lady]

*pats you on the back* It'll alllll be ok...take a deep breath, and let it go.

 

[seeingeyes]

What could possibly more compelling than a God who throws Himself into the volcano for the sake of the natives?

Without the death of Jesus Christ, our God is really no different than any other god...or any other very powerful man, for that matter. "Suck up to me and live, fail to do it right and die."