Skulls, Halloween, dark stuff...

[Wandering Cat Lady]

Yes, that is the general expected "dress code"...you know, dress in your Sunday best..."for God".

I don't see anywhere in the Bible that GOD tells us to dress our best for Him

We are casual when it comes to what people are wearing. We are more interested in souls than we are in the clothes...and that is what I love about my church. We have people of all races, all walks of life, who come in and feel at home and don't feel left out. Some people do dress up. Most of the time, I go in jeans and a tshirt. The pastor will often wear nice jeans and a jacket with an untucked button down shirt...he's pretty casual too.

 

[Wandering Cat Lady]

Can one follow the Lord and avoid death at the same time?

Well I think by following the Lord you avoid eternal death...since you are granted eternal life...

I suppose, though, fleshly death, as in death of our mortal bodies, is nothing that we can avoid, though it seems we are called to rejoice when one of God's children is taken home...even in the sorrow of it all. You can't avoid death of your mortal body...that is for sure.

 

[rick357]

There are lots of pagan practices that are used in and within Christianity. That doesn't make them bad. In fact, baptism was a pagan practice which St. John the Baptist took, and used, and which Christ Himself sanctified. So Christians can (and do) take pagan practices, and reform them to something holy.
Regarding clothing styles, and such, I don't really mind. I've seen Middle Eastern women, almost totally covered from head to toe, except for face, who were beautiful. Mary dressed this way, at least in the art. My wife wears a head-covering to go to Mass. She's the only one in the parish that does so. I believe it's a person's right to dress how they feel comfortable, so it's not for me to demand that she dress in any particular way. She feels called to wear a mantilla to worship God. Because worshipping God is not about how we dress, it's about how we place our minds in His presence.

If you truly believe your first paragraph then what can I say...Moses said your wrong...Jesus said your wrong...Paul said your wrong...Peter said your wrong...if you dont believe them you wont hear me

 

[rick357]

Well I think by following the Lord you avoid eternal death...since you are granted eternal life...

I suppose, though, fleshly death, as in death of our mortal bodies, is nothing that we can avoid, though it seems we are called to rejoice when one of God's children is taken home...even in the sorrow of it all. You can't avoid death of your mortal body...that is for sure.

You are crucified with Christ and the life you now live is by the spirit of God...you must lose your life to find his

 

[seeingeyes]

Well I think by following the Lord you avoid eternal death...since you are granted eternal life...

I suppose, though, fleshly death, as in death of our mortal bodies, is nothing that we can avoid, though it seems we are called to rejoice when one of God's children is taken home...even in the sorrow of it all. You can't avoid death of your mortal body...that is for sure.

Yet Jesus walked straight into the maw of death. The only one who could have avoided it did not, but gave up his life for others.

Eternal life means more than just living an infinite number of years, some future reward to hope for; it means walking straight into the jaws of death fearlessly for the sake of others.

This is relevant to your question because, though no one could expect you to change your mind about "dark stuff" just because someone else thinks skulls are "cool" (such shallow reasons are not enough to unseat deeply held beliefs), you should recognize that the beliefs that you hold on this are entirely motivated by fear.

Fear of death or satan, fear of defilement, fear of ostracization. And there is no Christ in any of that.

 

[Root of Jesse]

If you truly believe your first paragraph then what can I say...Moses said your wrong...Jesus said your wrong...Paul said your wrong...Peter said your wrong...if you dont believe them you wont hear me

No, I'm not wrong. There were lots of forms of baptism among pagans. Baptism by sprinkling of animal blood, dirt, and so on.

Baptism is simply washing. Hebrews did water baptism, but what did it mean? It wasn't for the forgiveness of sins, but a sign of faith. Jesus was baptized, as I said, and sanctified the ritual. And Peter and Paul came after him.

But you missed the point. Lighting candles is also a pagan practice, but Christians have taken the same practice and used it in their own purer way. Same with incense. The point is that the practice isn't pagan unless it has pagan intent. If it has Christian intent, such as baptism for the forgiveness of sins, or martyr's baptism by blood, or even the baptism of intent, it's the intention that matters.

 

[Wandering Cat Lady]

That is a good point seeingeyes.

I'm not really afraid of it. I am afraid of doing the wrong thing. I don't want to fall prey to one of the devil's deceitful loopholes. I know that sounds kind of legalistic and conservative. I just want to make sure that if I accept something into my belief system, that it doesn't go against God. I do happen to think that some things with skulls are cool...for instance, a friend of mine got a stunning tattoo a couple of weeks ago and it has a skull in it...and I thought the tattoo was beautiful, even with the skull. Now, she is not a Christian so I wouldn't expect her to have any convictions about skulls, that's for sure. But I'm not opposed to them, I am just wanting to make sure that I don't go against what God wants.

Since the devil is the master deceiver, he could make something look tempting...and has before. The fruit in the garden, classic example I realize...but it looked like the nicest fruit, looked harmless...but look where it got them? And in many things, I think the devil can work it so that it looks cool, so that it's tempting, and if we're not paying attention, we may be tripping ourselves up and putting stuff into our heads that we never intended to be there in the first place. The devil does like to play mind games....that I know.

I suppose maybe you could say I am afraid of the devil when I have no reason to be. That would probably be a very valid argument. But I also do want to make sure that what I wear and what I believe is ok glorifies God. Do skulls glorify God? I don't know...but do crosses either? I mean...does rock music or funky hairstyles or anything else like that glorify God? Maybe not...but then we could keep going on down the line and find so many things that don't appear to glorify God...if we weeded it all out, there'd be so little left that we would hate our lives and live in bondage...the wrong kind of bondage. So I don't know...it's kind of divided for me.

 

[Root of Jesse]

That is a good point seeingeyes.

I'm not really afraid of it. I am afraid of doing the wrong thing. I don't want to fall prey to one of the devil's deceitful loopholes. I know that sounds kind of legalistic and conservative. I just want to make sure that if I accept something into my belief system, that it doesn't go against God. I do happen to think that some things with skulls are cool...for instance, a friend of mine got a stunning tattoo a couple of weeks ago and it has a skull in it...and I thought the tattoo was beautiful, even with the skull. Now, she is not a Christian so I wouldn't expect her to have any convictions about skulls, that's for sure. But I'm not opposed to them, I am just wanting to make sure that I don't go against what God wants.

Since the devil is the master deceiver, he could make something look tempting...and has before. The fruit in the garden, classic example I realize...but it looked like the nicest fruit, looked harmless...but look where it got them? And in many things, I think the devil can work it so that it looks cool, so that it's tempting, and if we're not paying attention, we may be tripping ourselves up and putting stuff into our heads that we never intended to be there in the first place. The devil does like to play mind games....that I know.

I suppose maybe you could say I am afraid of the devil when I have no reason to be. That would probably be a very valid argument. But I also do want to make sure that what I wear and what I believe is ok glorifies God. Do skulls glorify God? I don't know...but do crosses either? I mean...does rock music or funky hairstyles or anything else like that glorify God? Maybe not...but then we could keep going on down the line and find so many things that don't appear to glorify God...if we weeded it all out, there'd be so little left that we would hate our lives and live in bondage...the wrong kind of bondage. So I don't know...it's kind of divided for me.

I don't think you're foolhardy to be wary of the devil. He does disguise things to look so good, yet be so bad. Sex, for example, looks and feels great, but outside of marriage, it's a sin. Some sex, even inside the marital embrace, can be a sin. So you really have to be careful. Lust in any form, whether food, or drink, or sex, or anything else, is wrong.

 

[seeingeyes]

I am afraid of doing the wrong thing.

A bit of homework: Name one man or woman of God in the scriptures who was "afraid of doing the wrong thing".

Since the devil is the master deceiver, he could make something look tempting...and has before. The fruit in the garden, classic example I realize...but it looked like the nicest fruit, looked harmless...but look where it got them? And in many things, I think the devil can work it so that it looks cool, so that it's tempting, and if we're not paying attention, we may be tripping ourselves up and putting stuff into our heads that we never intended to be there in the first place. The devil does like to play mind games....that I know.

Notice that the first thing that Adam and Eve did after eating the fruit was hide from God. They were afraid of doing something wrong.

I suppose maybe you could say I am afraid of the devil when I have no reason to be. That would probably be a very valid argument. But I also do want to make sure that what I wear and what I believe is ok glorifies God. Do skulls glorify God? I don't know...but do crosses either? I mean...does rock music or funky hairstyles or anything else like that glorify God? Maybe not...but then we could keep going on down the line and find so many things that don't appear to glorify God...if we weeded it all out, there'd be so little left that we would hate our lives and live in bondage...the wrong kind of bondage. So I don't know...it's kind of divided for me.

What glorifies God has vanishingly little to do with what you hang on your body. What is it that He wants?

I would not say to you, "oh you need to be more open minded - go buy a skull t-shirt!" You would be trespassing against your own conscience if you did such a thing. But I do think that it is good that you are examining this part of your beliefs. The question of what God wants from us is very closely related to the question of who He is. And clearly you want to know Him better.

May the Lord give you all the wisdom you seek.

 

[faroukfarouk]

That is a good point seeingeyes.

I'm not really afraid of it. I am afraid of doing the wrong thing. I don't want to fall prey to one of the devil's deceitful loopholes. I know that sounds kind of legalistic and conservative. I just want to make sure that if I accept something into my belief system, that it doesn't go against God. I do happen to think that some things with skulls are cool...for instance, a friend of mine got a stunning tattoo a couple of weeks ago and it has a skull in it...and I thought the tattoo was beautiful, even with the skull. Now, she is not a Christian so I wouldn't expect her to have any convictions about skulls, that's for sure. But I'm not opposed to them, I am just wanting to make sure that I don't go against what God wants.

Since the devil is the master deceiver, he could make something look tempting...and has before. The fruit in the garden, classic example I realize...but it looked like the nicest fruit, looked harmless...but look where it got them? And in many things, I think the devil can work it so that it looks cool, so that it's tempting, and if we're not paying attention, we may be tripping ourselves up and putting stuff into our heads that we never intended to be there in the first place. The devil does like to play mind games....that I know.

I suppose maybe you could say I am afraid of the devil when I have no reason to be. That would probably be a very valid argument. But I also do want to make sure that what I wear and what I believe is ok glorifies God. Do skulls glorify God? I don't know...but do crosses either? I mean...does rock music or funky hairstyles or anything else like that glorify God? Maybe not...but then we could keep going on down the line and find so many things that don't appear to glorify God...if we weeded it all out, there'd be so little left that we would hate our lives and live in bondage...the wrong kind of bondage. So I don't know...it's kind of divided for me.

Romans 14 is a relevant chapter to read, about the conscience and related matters.

Although as you said this thread is not primarily about tattoos, you are right, above, when you say that there are some very beautiful skull tattoos. Sometimes the skull motif in a tattoo is combined with a Christian motif also.

(I wish more Christians worked in tattoo parlors, actually.)

There are some very effective tracks of Christian hard rock, with powerful Biblical messages. Disciple's Battle Lines, is one I like very much; it communicates very strongly.

Blessings.

 

[topcare]

I love Halloween, most likely because I was forbidden it after my mom got saved. I really look forward to the ghost, goblins, vampires, etc. Though I don't go for the real dark stuff I mainly decorate with Disney, peanuts, and Garfield Halloween stuff on my desktop.

I like the classical stuff like for universal in the 30's and 40's. So I guess I can't really identify with the kids who go really dark though I do like zombies and the walking dead

 

[ViaCrucis]

What I'd be more worried is pentagrams and upside down crosses which represent Satan so I'd avoid those than skulls and such.

The fascinating thing about pentagrams and upside-down crosses is that, actually these were Christian symbols before they were used for not-so-Christian purposes.

The five pointed star--the pentagram--was a symbol used in the middle ages to represent the five wounds of Christ.

An upside-down cross is actually known as the cross of St. Peter, who according to tradition was crucified upside-down. In the same way that the X-shaped cross is known as the cross of St. Andrew because of the tradition that the Apostle Andrew was crucified on an X-shaped cross.

So, for example, the upside-down cross is often associated with the See of St. Peter,

Moderns may find the sight of an upside-down cross startling because we have been inundated with Hollywood Satanists in various film and media. But this isn't a satanic symbol as such, it's just another Christian symbol.

An upside-down crucifix, on the other hand, is used to show disrespect.

Symbols are always contextual. Think the swastika and how it was used throughout the world by many cultures for various purposes before being co-opted by the Nazis. Obviously if we find swastikas used by Jains and Hindus in India we aren't going to assume they're Nazis--because context matters.

So while pentagrams and upside-down crosses aren't of themselves bad--as noted they have been used in Christian art for centuries with very specifically Christian meanings--context does play a key role.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Rebecca Sue]

The fascinating thing about pentagrams and upside-down crosses is that, actually these were Christian symbols before they were used for not-so-Christian purposes. The five pointed star--the pentagram--was a symbol used in the middle ages to represent the five wounds of Christ. An upside-down cross is actually known as the cross of St. Peter, who according to tradition was crucified upside-down. In the same way that the X-shaped cross is known as the cross of St. Andrew because of the tradition that the Apostle Andrew was crucified on an X-shaped cross. So, for example, the upside-down cross is often associated with the See of St. Peter, Moderns may find the sight of an upside-down cross startling because we have been inundated with Hollywood Satanists in various film and media. But this isn't a satanic symbol as such, it's just another Christian symbol. An upside-down crucifix, on the other hand, is used to show disrespect. Symbols are always contextual. Think the swastika and how it was used throughout the world by many cultures for various purposes before being co-opted by the Nazis. Obviously if we find swastikas used by Jains and Hindus in India we aren't going to assume they're Nazis--because context matters. So while pentagrams and upside-down crosses aren't of themselves bad--as noted they have been used in Christian art for centuries with very specifically Christian meanings--context does play a key role. -CryptoLutheran

Very interesting and true as I used to be an Anthropology student. Hollywood certainly does shape our perceptions.

 

[Gnarwhal]

I was raised that Halloween was satan's holiday...that lots of satanic rituals are performed on that day and by doing halloween, we would be associating ourselves with something that is evil and of the devil...so we don't want to give the devil a foothold.

I was raised in a conservative evangelical home, but Halloween was never branded in such a way. Granted, my church/school usually replaced "Halloween" events with "Fall festival" and other types of things, but it was all more or less the same. As I've gotten older, I've yet to see an inherent evil with the holiday and today I actually think it's quite interesting and even cool. Since November 1 is All Saints Day, a day to commemorate all of the saints whom have come before us, Halloween is the precursor to that day just like Christmas Eve precedes Christmas.

People merely observe it by letting their kids run around in silly costumes and beg their neighbors for candy but it's all in good fun.

Sure, it gets perverted here and there by people who aren't in tune with the true meaning of it all, but really what hasn't?

Also I think Crypto brings up one of the best points in this thread: the symbol that has represented our faith since it's infancy was the single most terrible icon in antiquity: a Roman execution stake. Yet something as dreadful, terrifying and utterly evil as the cross has been co-opted by Christianity, and now we can't look at it as anything but a symbol of hope, love and triumph. If any of us expressed what we saw the cross as 2,000 years ago we would've been labeled the village loony.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I find the whole churches replacing Hallowe'en with a Fall or Harvest festival as an alternative to be very amusing. Because Hallowe'en isn't pagan, it's Christian. Harvest festivals are pagan. Obviously I'm not saying churches which do this are doing anything "pagan", just the irony of replacing a Christian thing with an historically actually pagan thing in order to get away with a falsely perceived "pagan" element.

It's like throwing away the cross and calling it "pagan" and then adorning your church with a sun wheel.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[faroukfarouk]

Ripped jeans? What's the matter with those?

Well, I have people in my church, they have tattoos, piercings, wear "darker" stuff...even have a couple of goth teens there...no one kicks them out...I've actually seen some of them start dressing a little nicer lately...you just never know...

Ripping jeans in the right place and in the right way can be quite an art. The demands of style kind of make it necessary to do it right, I guess.

Distressed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ruLJ9i5nBA

and ripped:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEluXYUtyGo

 

[seeingeyes]

I find the whole churches replacing Hallowe'en with a Fall or Harvest festival as an alternative to be very amusing. Because Hallowe'en isn't pagan, it's Christian. Harvest festivals are pagan. Obviously I'm not saying churches which do this are doing anything "pagan", just the irony of replacing a Christian thing with an historically actually pagan thing in order to get away with a falsely perceived "pagan" element.

It's like throwing away the cross and calling it "pagan" and then adorning your church with a sun wheel.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Gnarwhal]

I find the whole churches replacing Hallowe'en with a Fall or Harvest festival as an alternative to be very amusing. Because Hallowe'en isn't pagan, it's Christian. Harvest festivals are pagan. Obviously I'm not saying churches which do this are doing anything "pagan", just the irony of replacing a Christian thing with an historically actually pagan thing in order to get away with a falsely perceived "pagan" element.

It's like throwing away the cross and calling it "pagan" and then adorning your church with a sun wheel.

-CryptoLutheran

Oh I agree. If anything it's completely superfluous.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Combines cross with tribal skull:

 

[Wandering Cat Lady]

This has been a great discussion...I am loving it...love learning stuff!

So what do you think about witches and decorating the house/car/whatever with witches?