Six Day Creation? No Way!

[Ronald]

Differs?

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

I did not see anywhere in the chapter before this was mentioned where some other firmament was created.

If the stars were in the firmament then there are waters above that.

The waters that were separated are the seas on earth and the clouds above, within this area we fly kites, jump out of planes and sky dive ... you know ... from which we get the air we breath and where the birds fly? Are you an old and stubborn fella? If you think verses 6-8 are describing the same expanse as outer space on vs. 14-18, I will make a special not to attempt any rational dialogue with you.

 

[dad]

The waters that were separated are the seas on earth and the clouds above, within this area we fly kites, jump out of planes and sky dive ... you know ... from which we get the air we breath and where the birds fly? Are you an old and stubborn fella? If you think verses 6-8 are describing the same expanse as outer space on vs. 14-18, I will make a special not to attempt any rational dialogue with you.

Water from below used to water the earth actually, not sure one could invoke clouds in creation week? Some people interpret that a simple reading of Scripture has the stars placed in the firmament. They think there was other water beyond the stars. Above the firmament. It is thought that windows of heaven opened, allowing waters from the far side of the stars to come down to earth. Unless you have something other than hubris for your position, I lean toward that opinion.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Yes and they shout for joy when someone hets saved now. So? You thought that meant that they lived at the Hyatt?
From the earth? Perhaps you think that a garden of God was the garden of Eden of earth? Look closer, that won't work at all.
No.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Their habitation is heaven. Not earth. That verse does not say they left earth in any way shape or form.

The fall of Eve in the garden was a reenactment of the original 'paradise lost'. God originally made the whole universe as well as the earth a 'pleasure garden' for the angels. He re-created a remnant of it in Genesis for the human fall to play out.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Water from below used to water the earth actually, not sure one could invoke clouds in creation week? Some people interpret that a simple reading of Scripture has the stars placed in the firmament. They think there was other water beyond the stars. Above the firmament. It is thought that windows of heaven opened, allowing waters from the far side of the stars to come down to earth. Unless you have something other than hubris for your position, I lean toward that opinion.

There was no water in outer space or a 'vapor canopy' surrounding the earth. "A mist went up" simply describes the water cycle of evaporation, cloud formation, and subsequent rainfall. The "windows of heaven" is just poetic language for rainfall.

 

[dad]

There was no water in outer space or a 'vapor canopy' surrounding the earth. "A mist went up" simply describes the water cycle of evaporation, cloud formation, and subsequent rainfall. The "windows of heaven" is just poetic language for rainfall.

The water would have been outside the known universe..beyond the stars. As for a mist that went up, that denotes something unusual, noteworthy. It describes how things worked at that time. We cannot take this t be some sort of crude description of rain.

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. 6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

 

[Ronald]

I still believe the earth had a different environment because it hadn't rained before the flood and so the mist rose and collected somewhere, if not where did it go?
Paradise was perfect and so the environment was perfect. It isn't now, sin distorted that. I doubt very much ice caps existed on the poles, I doubt there were deserts. Deserts have grown and spread since then - only takes a couple thousand years. I think they are evidence of a decaying planet that once was perfect. Didn't they find tropical plant fossils in Antartica? That is evidence as well of a once flourishing world, unless that asteroid caused a polar shift and knocked the earth a little further away from the sun. Just speculation mostly.

 

[dad]

I still believe the earth had a different environment because it hadn't rained before the flood and so the mist rose and collected somewhere, if not where did it go?

Who knows? Maybe the world of fast growing plants used a lot of it? Maybe rivers carried a lot of it also?

Paradise was perfect and so the environment was perfect. It isn't now, sin distorted that. I doubt very much ice caps existed on the poles, I doubt there were deserts. Deserts have grown and spread since then - only takes a couple thousand years. I think they are evidence of a decaying planet that once was perfect.

OK

Didn't they find tropical plant fossils in Antartica? That is evidence as well of a once flourishing world,

Yes. That was pre flood. Also pre continental separation.

unless that asteroid caused a polar shift and knocked the earth a little further away from the sun. Just speculation mostly.

Maybe. But a simple jolt would not change nature. Men would not start living centuries less because of a jolt, for example.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The water would have been outside the known universe..beyond the stars. As for a mist that went up, that denotes something unusual, noteworthy. It describes how things worked at that time. We cannot take this t be some sort of crude description of rain.

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. 6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

But (can also be translated and) resolves the problem. The mist formed clouds above or very moist air that probably condensed into heavy dew or rainfall in the cool of the night. Nothing mysterious here.

 

[dad]

But (can also be translated and) resolves the problem. The mist formed clouds above or very moist air that probably condensed into heavy dew or rainfall in the cool of the night. Nothing mysterious here.

So what were the fountains of the deep that brought up water, underground clouds? Also God pointed out it had NOT rained on earth, and explained how things got watered instead.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

So what were the fountains of the deep that brought up water, underground clouds? Also God pointed out it had NOT rained on earth, and explained how things got watered instead.

It hadn't rained before God created the plants. When he did he caused it to rain to water them.

The "fountains of the great deep" are the ocean basins. That's the only thing they could be; the deep being the seas. That's the only source of enough water to flood the whole earth.

 

[dad]

It hadn't rained before God created the plants. When he did he caused it to rain to water them.

The "fountains of the great deep" are the ocean basins. That's the only thing they could be; the deep being the seas. That's the only source of enough water to flood the whole earth.

Ocean Basins? Mist cloud/rain system? Guess we will agree to disagree.

 

[Ronald]

Who knows? Maybe the world of fast growing plants used a lot of it? Maybe rivers carried a lot of it also?


OK
Yes. That was pre flood. Also pre continental separation.

Maybe. But a simple jolt would not change nature. Men would not start living centuries less because of a jolt, for example.

Well, God limited their age to 120 years, didn't need really an environmental change along with it, however, my pastor mentioned that an increase in UV rays may be a reason why cells die quicker, suggesting the water canopy possibility that blocked out harmful rays.
Another thought, in the Millennial Kingdom, lifetime will once again be quite longer ... "Behold , I make all things new".

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Ocean Basins? Mist cloud/rain system? Guess we will agree to disagree.

Agreed.

 

[dad]

Well, God limited their age to 120 years,

No. The one verse you get that need not be interpreted the way you think. Some people assume the 120 years is the time until some event, not average life spans. In fact the bible omits 120 average as any possibility. Do the math.

didn't need really an environmental change along with it, however, my pastor mentioned that an increase in UV rays may be a reason why cells die quicker, suggesting the water canopy possibility that blocked out harmful rays.

Tell your pastor to spend the rest of his life in a deep cave wih no rays. See if he lives 1000 years!

Another thought, in the Millennial Kingdom, lifetime will once again be quite longer ... "Behold , I make all things new".

You are correct. The nature changes again.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

No. The one verse you get that need not be interpreted the way you think. Some people assume the 120 years is the time until some event, not average life spans. In fact the bible omits 120 average as any possibility. Do the math.
Tell your pastor to spend the rest of his life in a deep cave wih no rays. See if he lives 1000 years!

You are correct. The nature changes again.

It looks like people will have longer lives in the millennium.

Isaiah 65:19-20

19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

 

[Ronald]

No. The one verse you get that need not be interpreted the way you think. Some people assume the 120 years is the time until some event, not average life spans. In fact the bible omits 120 average as any possibility. Do the math.
Tell your pastor to spend the rest of his life in a deep cave wih no rays. See if he lives 1000 years!

You are correct. The nature changes again.

Living on a cave for 1000 years just makes you a white caveman. UV rays are harmful, but only one of the many harmful results of sin that distorted the environment. Cells began to die, death was introduce in every way. Gen. 6:3 has a literal meaning, God assigned a mortality clock to man, ours days were numbered, to 120 years. Its amazing how people distort scripture and assign some symbolic meaning when God intended to be read literally.

 

[dad]

Living on a cave for 1000 years just makes you a white caveman. UV rays are harmful, but only one of the many harmful results of sin that distorted the environment.

OK, but you said this

" my pastor mentioned that an increase in UV rays may be a reason why cells die quicker, suggesting the water canopy possibility that blocked out harmful rays."

The water canopy thing is a long discarded idea that has no merit and doesn't work as far as physics goes. I think AIG even says not to use that one.
So you admit UV rays will not change lifespan to any significant degree.

Cells began to die, death was introduce in every way.

We do not know that a change in cells were the chief culprit either. Probably the issue is what changed how they work. That has to do with laws and forces of nature.

Gen. 6:3 has a literal meaning, God assigned a mortality clock to man, ours days were numbered, to 120 years.

No. Don't think so.

Looking at one random commentary for example I see this.

"
Verse 3
And Jehovah said, My spirit shall not strive with man for ever, for that he also is flesh: yet shall his days be a hundred and twenty years.

This signals the withdrawal of the Holy Spirit from those who already had hardened their hearts against God, and we find in this the first Scriptural instance of Judicial Hardening, a phenomenon witnessed again and again throughout the Bible. It is not so designated here, but that is undeniably what it is. This is equivalent in every way to Paul's statement regarding a later evil generation that, "God gave them up ..." (Romans 1:24,26,28). This is different from causing men to sin, but it always leads to the proliferation and intensity of sin. It means that God will, at last, allow men the right of choosing sin, if they must. We shall encounter this phenomenon again and again in our studies. The result in this instance of it was the complete corruption of humanity (Noah and his family excepted), after the manner described below in Gen. 6:6-8. Paul also described the same condition in Rom. 1. "God gave them up."

Genesis - Chapter 6 - Coffman's Commentary of the New Testament on StudyLight.org

 

[dad]

It looks like people will have longer lives in the millennium.

Isaiah 65:19-20

19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Right, plants will grow fast again. Lives will be long again for man on earth. Lions will eat grass. Angels will live with man, and God also when that ends. Nature will be different than now.

 

[Ronald]

Gen. 6:3
My Spirit will not be with man forever (aionious means ages).,This is a statement telling us something has changes in man. He has s I need and fallen from grace and death has entered into the picture. His flesh will live 120 years.
And isn't that true, isn't that about our limit or do you want to argue with reality?

 

[Alithis]

Sorry to drag the thread back to the original topic.
But thevtopuc is rooted soundly....
In Unbelief.