Sins of the prophet Muhammad

[S Walch]

"Allah" made it appear to Jews that Jesus was crucified, but yet, Jesus wasn't crucified.

Or so the quran says anyway.

 

[slamjam]

I don't have any respect for people who crucify others. God made it appear to them that they crucified Christ, but the true followers of Christ knew that he ascended into heaven.

 

[Bookofknowledge]

"Allah" made it appear to Jews that Jesus was crucified, but yet, Jesus wasn't crucified.

Or so the quran says anyway.

Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=12615&dgn=4

How did Christianity become mixed with polytheistic beliefs?
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=12634&dgn=4

Doubts about what the Qur’aan says about ‘Eesa (peace be upon him)
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=12637&dgn=4

The Gospels that are extant nowadays were written after the time of ‘Eesa (peace be upon him) and have been tampered with a great deal
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=47516

 

[NOTW]

Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=12615&dgn=4

How did Christianity become mixed with polytheistic beliefs?
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=12634&dgn=4

Doubts about what the Qur’aan says about ‘Eesa (peace be upon him)
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=12637&dgn=4

The Gospels that are extant nowadays were written after the time of ‘Eesa (peace be upon him) and have been tampered with a great deal
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=47516

Muslims deny Jesus' crucifixion and they depend on one verse mentioned in the Qur'an that says, "That they said (in boast), "We killed Al-Masih 'Isa the son of Maryam, the Messenger of Allah"; but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not." ~Surah 4:157.
So, we have to pose this question:

• Why would God wait for over 600 years, after the desciples have died preaching Jesus' death, after Christianity spreading across the Earth. And then the Qur'an comes after all these centuries claiming that Jesus did not die on the cross?
• Do you really think that God would wait all these centuries to say that Jesus' death was false?
• If, according to the Qur'an, Jesus was not crucified, then who was, and thousands witnessed him, and was recorded in the pagan's, greek's and roman's history?

All muslims emphasize on "but they killed him not, nor crucified him". And when you look at the Al-Tafseer (explanation) of the verse, all of them (Ibn-Katheer, Al-Galalein, Al-Qurtoby, Al-Tabary, Al-Razy) contradict each other on who was crucified instead of Jesus, but muslim response is that it is not important.

- Who took Jesus' place, according to the Qur'an?
Some say it was Judas, the one who betrayed Jesus. But how could it be Judas if he was the very one who was with the Romans when Jesus was caught?
The Al-Razy version of explanation poses TEN different possibilities on how it might have appeared to them that they have crucified Jesus.
So, I don't think that Christians are " those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge". But it is the muslims who are not certain whether it was Jesus or not who was crucified.

The Qur'an has failed to prove that Jesus was not crucified.

 

[peaceful soul]

this is not possible for people who were not born until centuries after the fact could know more about what happened than the people who were there but this very term is very common in the knowledge which was revealed to Prophets by Allah (ONE GOD without any partner)

68:7
Surely it is your Rabb Who knows those who have strayed from His Way, as He knows best those who are rightly guided.

Yusuf Ali - Note 5597 (Sura 68 Ayah 7)
Men set up false standards of judgment. The right standard is that of Allah. For His knowledge is complete and all-embracing; He reads hidden motives as well as things that appear before men's sight; and He knows the past history in which the roots of present actions are embedded, as well as the future consequences of present actions.

3:55
Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject Faith to the Day of Resurrection; then shall ye all return unto Me and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute

You are quoting the Qu'ran. Now give us some simple reason that we should not look at historical and Biblical writings, and use common sense? The questions that GreenMan posed are worthy of explanations and just can not be validated by using only Qu'ranic scripture just because you beleive them. A more complex question would be why did Allah deceive those witnesses then? The God that I know has integrity and would not fool even unbelievers into thinking that they witnesses something that they - in reality - did not witness.

 

[NOTW]

You are quoting the Qu'ran. Now give us some simple reason that we should not look at historical and Biblical writings, and use common sense? The questions that GreenMan posed are worthy of explanations and just can not be validated by using only Qu'ranic scripture just because you beleive them. A more complex question would be why did Allah deceive those witnesses then? The God that I know has integrity and would not fool even unbelievers into thinking that they witnesses something that they - in reality - did not witness.

Don't worry. Because even the Qur'an can't prove that Jesus was not crucified.

 

[Green Man]

Look you want answers you have to show some patience and ask in a nice manners, you can not boss around and expect people to answer your questions as if they are your slaves by saying "forget the feeble attempt at a sermon"...

Before I answer you, why don't you tell me... what is it that Allah said to jews?

Surah4:157 says it all.I got this from post 47.

 

[Green Man]

I don't have any respect for people who crucify others. God made it appear to them that they crucified Christ, but the true followers of Christ knew that he ascended into heaven.

So,you admit Allah lied to the people.

 

[peaceful soul]

I don't have any respect for people who crucify others. God made it appear to them that they crucified Christ, but the true followers of Christ knew that he ascended into heaven.

Is this opinion, fact, or just speculation? What you believe should have no bearing upon what really happened. I think part of your problem is that you rest in your beliefs and not accept that you may not be factual in what you believe. Beliefs and opinions are a dime a dozen and required no formal proof. Specualtions are similar and give a false sense of knowledge.

Would you mind providing something other than an Islamic perspective of Christ to help you case? Do not you think that the stories of the people who were witnesses to this would be more credible? Were there any Muslims there to witness? I think not unless you redefine the term Muslim.

 

[peaceful soul]

Another question: Was the person that took Jesus' place a sacrifice too? What rewards did Allah give him for his part in that conspiracy?

 

[Muslim]

Another question: Was the person that took Jesus' place a sacrifice too? What rewards did Allah give him for his part in that conspiracy?

Muslims scholars have two viewpoints about who was sacrificed instead of Jesus. One is that it was one of his enemies who was trying to kill him, in that case then he got just what he deserved. The second is that Jesus went to one of his companions and asked them who would be willing to sacrificed and take his place. One of his companions volunteered and was sacrificed. If that is true then he was a matyr and went straight to heaven. Secondly, Allah was not the one who made the coalition of Romans and Jews want to sacrifice Jesus. Jesus was sent as a final warning to the Jews to stop their bad behaviour and come back to obeying God. But since the Jews failed once again and tried to kill Jesus, God took him back up to heaven and from that point on the Israelites were no longer the chosen people. And God did not tell the Israelites that they had not sacrificed Jesus, because it did not matter. These people would not have believed, and they were going to hell anyways for having tried to kill him. The intention is as bad as the action. Anyways, they had broken their covenant so God was no longer obligated to help them anymore. They had been given the Bible, which had clear instructions and a strong message of monotheism. Anyone who would adopt false beliefs after that, such as the concept of Jesus being the son of God, was disobeying God.

Then the final prophet was sent to Medina. He is a descendent of Ishmael, son of Abraham. God sent the prophet Muhammad to confirm the message in the original Bible and Tanakh. He was sent to all of mankind, so it's obvious that the Quran would contain information about what really happened to Jesus. God perfected his religion through Islam.

 

[Bookofknowledge]

The Qur'an does NOT deny the crucifixion.

Why aren't you using common sense here? It is stated in qur'aan that "They killed him not, nor crucified him"

Thus Qur'aan deny the crucifixion of Jesus (AS), when debating who was crucified in place of Jesus and how the matter was made dubious for those people? well tell me If Qur'aan or Prophet Muhammad spoke about this matter or left it for people to show some faith and believe in what was revealed to them - This is what Islam ask followers to hear and obey instead of chasing varity of historians claims.

Why would God wait for over 600 years, after the desciples have died preaching Jesus' death, after Christianity spreading across the Earth. And then the Qur'an comes after all these centuries claiming that Jesus did not die on the cross?

How long was the time God waited before HE (The Most Forebearing) sent Jesus (AS)?

Do you really think that God would wait all these centuries to say that Jesus' death was false?

Your Lord has written (prescribed) Mercy for Himself, so that if any of you does evil in ignorance, and thereafter repents and does righteous good deeds (by obeying Allah), then surely, He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

If, according to the Qur'an, Jesus was not crucified, then who was, and thousands witnessed him, and was recorded in the pagan's, greek's and roman's history?

You are following what the pagn's, greek's and roman's history speaks about who was crucified where as my Lord (Allah) said "they killed him not, nor crucified him"

I have faith in my Allah, so enough is for me to believe what he has revealed to Prophet Muhammad (SAW).

All muslims emphasize on "but they killed him not, nor crucified him". And when you look at the Al-Tafseer (explanation) of the verse, all of them (Ibn-Katheer, Al-Galalein, Al-Qurtoby, Al-Tabary, Al-Razy) contradict each other on who was crucified instead of Jesus, but muslim response is that it is not important.

- Who took Jesus' place, according to the Qur'an?
Some say it was Judas, the one who betrayed Jesus. But how could it be Judas if he was the very one who was with the Romans when Jesus was caught?
The Al-Razy version of explanation poses TEN different possibilities on how it might have appeared to them that they have crucified Jesus.
So, I don't think that Christians are " those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge". But it is the muslims who are not certain whether it was Jesus or not who was crucified.

The Qur'an has failed to prove that Jesus was not crucified.

Qur'aan stated the fact that the matter was made dubious for them, now you can utilize your intellegnce and ask your self is it possible for GOD to make the matter dubious for all those people - I believe "YES" - now If the matter was dubious for them, how can one believe in what historians wrote which is not the word of GOD?

At this moment I do not know if this was explained by Prophet Muhammad or Qur'aan. explanations by scholars an historians posessing TEN different possibilities on how it might have appeared to them that who was crucified in place of Jesus is still theory. Islam ask people to believe in ONE Allah without any patners, those who believe understand very well that this life is a test now if every thing was made clear this life wouldn't be a test would it?

 

[Bookofknowledge]

You are quoting the Qu'ran. Now give us some simple reason that we should not look at historical and Biblical writings, and use common sense? The questions that GreenMan posed are worthy of explanations and just can not be validated by using only Qu'ranic scripture just because you beleive them. A more complex question would be why did Allah deceive those witnesses then? The God that I know has integrity and would not fool even unbelievers into thinking that they witnesses something that they - in reality - did not witness.

How many warning would you give to a child before taking action?

If GOD can rescure the people of Israel by parting the red sea then surely He can punish the ignorant and trangressors by making the matter dubious for them and setting an example for the entire world to show how foolish and helpless these people are infront of GOD (The One GOD, The Only GOD without any partners)

 

[NOTW]

Why aren't you using common sense here? It is stated in qur'aan that "They killed him not, nor crucified him"

So what the Qur'an stated that "They killed him not, nor crucified him".
Technically, the Qur'an did not deny it.

Thus Qur'aan deny the crucifixion of Jesus (AS), when debating who was crucified in place of Jesus and how the matter was made dubious for those people? well tell me If Qur'aan or Prophet Muhammad spoke about this matter or left it for people to show some faith and believe in what was revealed to them - This is what Islam ask followers to hear and obey instead of chasing varity of historians claims.

Or you could also say, blindly walking without understanding. It could go either way.

How long was the time God waited before HE (The Most Forebearing) sent Jesus (AS)?

Your Lord has written (prescribed) Mercy for Himself, so that if any of you does evil in ignorance, and thereafter repents and does righteous good deeds (by obeying Allah), then surely, He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

But notice that the people believe, at least thought, it was true. How can they realize that it was a scam?

You are following what the pagn's, greek's and roman's history speaks about who was crucified where as my Lord (Allah) said "they killed him not, nor crucified him"

No, I am not following what the pagan's, greek's and roman's history, but I'm using them as even more evidence of Christ's crucifixion and not some book that came 600 years after Jesus' crucifixion claiming that it was a scam.

I have faith in my Allah, so enough is for me to believe what he has revealed to Prophet Muhammad (SAW).

And so do I.

Qur'aan stated the fact that the matter was made dubious for them, now you can utilize your intellegnce and ask your self is it possible for GOD to make the matter dubious for all those people - I believe "YES" - now If the matter was dubious for them, how can one believe in what historians wrote which is not the word of GOD?

What about when the Qur'an says that the Bible is from God and that it was not corrupted, and I believe it is the word of God?
According to you, that makes the crucifixion true.

At this moment I do not know if this was explained by Prophet Muhammad or Qur'aan. explanations by scholars an historians posessing TEN different possibilities on how it might have appeared to them that who was crucified in place of Jesus is still theory. Islam ask people to believe in ONE Allah without any patners, those who believe understand very well that this life is a test now if every thing was made clear this life wouldn't be a test would it?

You surely misunderstand what kind of test this life is.
It is certainly not a test of knowledge, is it?
It is rather a test of faith, by temptations, you either pass or fail.

 

[NOTW]

How many warning would you give to a child before taking action?

If GOD can rescure the people of Israel by parting the red sea then surely He can punish the ignorant and trangressors by making the matter dubious for them and setting an example for the entire world to show how foolish and helpless these people are infront of GOD (The One GOD, The Only GOD without any partners)

Wait, something doesn't sound right.
So, in Islam theology, Allah is merciful until the judgement day comes and then, Allah will judge all the people by their faith & work.
But, why did Allah punish those who still could've had a chance to repent?

 

[Muslim]

Wait, something doesn't sound right.
So, in Islam theology, Allah is merciful until the judgement day comes and then, Allah will judge all the people by their faith & work.
But, why did Allah punish those who still could've had a chance to repent?

You mean those people who tried to kill Jesus? Anyone who would have killed a prophet of God most likely would not repent. It would take an extreme amount of hatred and ignorance to do something like that. Secondly, it is not Allah's duty to give everyone second chances. They chose their fate, and if they repent then that is better for them but if not then they will be punished. Allah is the creator. He does not serve us we serve him. If Allah wanted to he could make everyone pious servants. But the purpose of our existance is a test to see if we will obey him of our own freewill.

 

[Bookofknowledge]

So what the Qur'an stated that "They killed him not, nor crucified him".
Technically, the Qur'an did not deny it.

Hear and Obey, this is what a muslim stand for when it comes to religion and faith. If you continue to seek techincal terms then wait for the coming of Jesus to testify or wait for the Day of Judgement and I too shall wait while you are waiting for that Day which is bound to come.

Or you could also say, blindly walking without understanding. It could go either way.

Some thing are made clear for mankind to understand and some thing are not yet fully explained... this world was made out of nothingness and big bang theory proves it after 1400 years, Muslims read qur'aan and believed. Millions of muslims died while believing what was revealed in Qur'aan. those who died before the big bang theory, well surely those muslims blindly believed in Qur'aan which is proved after their death, The strong faith of people.

But notice that the people believe, at least thought, it was true. How can they realize that it was a scam?

well If the matter was made dubious for them then whatever they thought of realizing or seeing has no valid weight to prove. everyone is running in a different direction like you have said earlier there are TEN different senarios of what might have happened.

No, I am not following what the pagan's, greek's and roman's history, but I'm using them as even more evidence of Christ's crucifixion

Is your faith so weak that you are using the history written by those very people who attempted to crucify Jesus? If the people of Jesus time were ownest people then they would have not attempted to crucify Jesus...

and not some book that came 600 years after Jesus' crucifixion claiming that it was a scam.

So, since you don't believe what Qur'aan revealed let me ask you this question...Have you forgiven those who crucified/killed Jesus? If YES WHY? And what is your problem with Muslims?

What about when the Qur'an says that the Bible is from God and that it was not corrupted, and I believe it is the word of God? According to you, that makes the crucifixion true.

We believe in what was revealed to Jesus (AS). We are not denying the fact that Jesus (AS) was blessed by the book name Injeel. We believe that Jesus (AS) was blessed with ONE book only hence I can not used the word 'Bible' because on this forum I have come to know that Bible is a collection of 66 books written by 44 writers over 1500 years.

If you have what was revealed to Jesus (AS) in one book lets debate and if you don't then leave it because it's a shame for me to assume the work of 44 writters as word of GOD.

You surely misunderstand what kind of test this life is.
It is certainly not a test of knowledge, is it?
It is rather a test of faith, by temptations, you either pass or fail.

It is not you or me who is selecting the Test on our own choice. Allah has not made known to mankind or mentioned what test HE will be giving on earth to each one...

He may test the wealthy with wealth, He may test those who claim they have knowledge with knowledge, It is HIS will that HE may choose whatever way pleases to him for testing mankind.

"And We have sent down to you the Book (the Qur'aan) as an exposition of everything, a guidance, a mercy, and glad tidings for those who have submitted themselves (to Allah as Muslims)." (16:89)

 

[Bookofknowledge]

Wait, something doesn't sound right.
So, in Islam theology, Allah is merciful until the judgement day comes and then, Allah will judge all the people by their faith & work.
But, why did Allah punish those who still could've had a chance to repent?

"Say (O Muhammad (SAW)): 'If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.' Say: 'Obey Allah and the Messenger.' But if they turn away, then Allah does not like the disbelievers." (3:31,32)

"And of mankind, there are some who say: 'We believe in Allah and the Last Day,' while in fact they believe not." (2:8)

Iman requires strong and firm faith that bears the fruits of truthful statements, righteous actions, love in the Cause of Allah, sincerity in performing Tauhid and obedience to His Messenger (SAW). Iman requires strong resolve, liveliness, vigor, endurance and dedicating the heart to what it find hard: the obedience of Allah and restraining the inner self from what it coverts and is a disobedience of Allah.

There are several signs of Iman that Allah has mentioned in His Book and His Messenger (SAW) detailed in his Sunnah, as follows. Allah said:

"The believers are only those who, when Allah is mentioned, feel a fear in their hearts and when His verses (this Qur'aan) are recited unto them, they (i.e., the Verses) increase their Faith; and they put their trust in their Lord (Alone); who perform As-Salat and spend out of that We have provided them. It is they who are the believers in truth. For them are grades of dignity with their Lord, and forgiveness and a generous provision (Paradise)." (8:2-4)

Allah has written mercy for himself but this doesn't mean the punishment will not come until the Day of Judgment. One can repent until they see the angel of death, Allah will forgive those who sincerly seek forgiveness and repent.

 

[Green Man]

You mean those people who tried to kill Jesus? Anyone who would have killed a prophet of God most likely would not repent. It would take an extreme amount of hatred and ignorance to do something like that. Secondly, it is not Allah's duty to give everyone second chances. They chose their fate, and if they repent then that is better for them but if not then they will be punished. Allah is the creator. He does not serve us we serve him. If Allah wanted to he could make everyone pious servants. But the purpose of our existance is a test to see if we will obey him of our own freewill.

It really is laughable how muslims are so expert about the Qur'an but when it comes to understanding the basic tenets of christianity,you don't seem to have the slightest clue.What qualifies you to say what chance anyone has of repenting?This whole business of Jesus never beingcrucified really is a joke.

 

[Green Man]

How many warning would you give to a child before taking action?

If GOD can rescure the people of Israel by parting the red sea then surely He can punish the ignorant and trangressors by making the matter dubious for them and setting an example for the entire world to show how foolish and helpless these people are infront of GOD (The One GOD, The Only GOD without any partners)

I love the way you conveniently ignore me when it suits you.Allah lied.Post 47 says it all.