Sins of the prophet Muhammad

[Iron Lion]

Its interesting you say that. Christians dont seem to realize they put their trust in a falliable man who claims he is a "god" also

thats no different to someone saying you base your beliefs on a falliable man who claimed to speak to God (Moses)

 

[Shy21]

thats no different to someone saying you base your beliefs on a falliable man who claimed to speak to God (Moses)

OK. I have no problem with anyone thinking this. You made that comment about the "falliable man" and I was just letting you know it can be turned around on you and I also know it can be turned around on me.

 

[Bookofknowledge]

-Muhammad practised terrorism (excessive violence towards the defeated enemies):

Qur’an 8:12 “I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”

Can you clarify who is refered to as "I" in the sentance "I shall terrorize the infidels"?

-Muhammad practised terrorism (excessive violence towards the defeated enemies):

Qur’an 8:57 “If you gain mastery over them in battle, inflict such a defeat as would terrorize them, so that they would learn a lesson and be warned.”

What is the reason behind asking muslims to teach a lesson and be warned?

 

[rahma]

[/i]

Can you clarify who is refered to as "I" in the sentance "I shall terrorize the infidels"?

Oo, oo, I know! This verse is God speaking to Angels, which is quite clear when we look at the entire verse, and even more clear when we look at the tafsir, commentary on the verse.

 

[morningstar2651]

Well, this is a Christian forum.

And, naturally, that means that the majority of posters are Christian.

But does that mean the minority can have no voice of their own?

 

[Iron Lion]

OK. I have no problem with anyone thinking this. You made that comment about the "falliable man" and I was just letting you know it can be turned around on you and I also know it can be turned around on me.

fair call

 

[Bookofknowledge]

Oo, oo, I know! This verse is God speaking to Angels, which is quite clear when we look at the entire verse, and even more clear when we look at the tafsir, commentary on the verse.

Indeed The verse refer to GOD address about battle of badr, at that time muslims were 300 men, many were without shield and proper weapon as compare to other side which had 1000 men with complete armor, even their animals were wearing shields.

Allah's help during the Battle of Badr and Allah's decision between Muslims and kafirs



8:11
Remember (before the battle of Badr) when He caused drowsiness to overcome you as an assurance from Himself, and sent down water from the sky to cleanse you and to remove from you the uncleanliness caused by Shaitan, to strengthen your hearts and to steady your feet therewith.

8:12
Then your Rabb revealed His will to the angels: "I am with you, give courage to the believers. I will cast panic into the hearts of the unbelievers, therefore, smite their necks and beat every joint of their bodies."

8:13
This is because they defied Allah and His Rasool. Whoever defies Allah and His Rasool should know that Allah is strict in retribution,

8:14
that it is the reality, so taste it, and there will also be the torture of hellfire for the unbelievers.

8:15
O believers! When you encounter the unbelievers in a battle, never turn your backs to them,

8:16
and whoever turns his back to them on such an occasion - unless it be a strategy of war, or to join towards a detachment - shall incur the wrath of Allah and his abode shall be hell, and how awful shall be that dwelling!

8:17
In fact, it was not you who killed them, but it was Allah Who killed them; it was not you who threw the handful of sand, but it was Allah Who threw it so that He might pass the believers successfully through this excellent trial; surely Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.

8:18
This is His dealing with you: as for the unbelievers, Allah will surely frustrate their evil plots.

8:19
O unbelievers! You wanted a decision; lo! The decision, in shape of the believers' victory, has come to you. Now if you desist, it will be better for you, and if you repeat your act of war against the believers, so shall We repeat the act of providing them assistance, and your forces, however large in number they may be, shall avail you nothing, for verily Allah is with the believers.

 

[slamjam]

Thank you vedickings! Don't worry, no hard feelings.



All these verses from the Qur'an were anseredd in the article I linked for everyone.

Here's an excerpt:

Another verse that Islam-haters use to support terrorism is:

8:12-13... I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips off them. This because they contend against God and his apostle. ...

This is another verse that is commonly quoted out of context, both historical context and the context of the verse itself in the Qur'an. Let us first examine the full verse:

8:12-13 Recall that your Lord inspired the angels: "I am with you; so support those who believed. I will throw terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved. You may strike them above the necks, and you may strike even every finger." This is what they have justly incurred by FIGHTING God and His messenger. For those who fight against God and His messenger, God's retribution is severe.

That is the context of the verse in the Qur'an. The historical context is that this verse was revealed at the Battle of Badr, a battle in which the pagans of Makkah traveled over 200 miles to destroy the muslims of Madinah. The Pagans of Makkah had an army of about 1000 while the muslims were only 300 followers. The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and his followers had suffered severe persecutions and torture for 13 years in the city of Makkah. And now that they had fled Makkah and found a sanctuary in the city of Madinah, they were once again threatened. The enemy came to them with the intent to kill Muslims. It was a war to defend themselves and their Faith. It was a war imposed upon Muslims.

So God supported the Muslims and informed them that God would allow justice to prevail over oppression. He informed them that they should not fear fighting in God's path, but it is the enemies who should fear God's retribution for their oppression and injustice. Also, the previously mentioned laws of Jihaad all applied here and the muslims were commanded:

8:61 But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards
peace, and trust in God: for He is One that hears and knows (all things).

 

[Kris_J]

YES

A Christians duty is to point out the truth to everyone. Jesus is the only way to the father, when you put your trust in him and not in fallible man you will see

Point taken. Thanks.

 

[Bookofknowledge]

Punishment to the people of Hijr for their disbelief

15:80
The people of Hijr also denied their Rasool.
15:81
We gave them Our signs, but they ignored them.

15:82
They hewed their homes in the mountains for safety.

15:83
But the mighty blast seized them one morning, and all their labor of building their homes through carving the rocks did not avail them.

15:84
We have not created the Heavens and the Earth, and all that lies between them but to manifest the Truth.

15:85
The Hour of Doom is sure to come, so overlook their misbehavior in a gracious manner.

15:86
Surely your Rabb is the All-Knowing Creator.

 

[Bookofknowledge]

-Muhammad practised terrorism (excessive violence towards the defeated enemies):

Qur’an 8:57 “If you gain mastery over them in battle, inflict such a defeat as would terrorize them, so that they would learn a lesson and be warned.”

Treaties must be honored unless broken with proper notification


8:55
The worst of animals in the sight of Allah are those who reject the truth and do not become believers.

8:56
Those who make treaties with you and time after time violate their treaties, and have no fear of Allah.

8:57
If you encounter them in combat, make them a fearsome example for others who would follow them so that they all may learn a lesson.

8:58
If you fear treachery from any of your allies, you may fairly retaliate by breaking off the treaty with them (through properly notifying them to that effect), for Allah does not love the treacherous.

 

[Bookofknowledge]

-Muhammad encouraged warfare (even for no other reason than the difference in religion):

Qu'ran 2:216: 'Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that you hate a thing which is good for you and it may happen that you love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, you knew not.'

Charity and Fighting (for just cause) is made obligatory

2:215
They ask you what they should spend in charity. Say: "Whatever you spend with a good heart, give it to parents, relatives, orphans, the helpless, and travellers in need. Whatever good you do, Allah is aware of it.

2:216
Fighting has been made obligatory for you, much to your dislike. It is quite possible that something which you don't like is good for you and that something which you love is bad for you. Allah knows, and you do not.

-Muhammad encouraged warfare (even for no other reason than the difference in religion):

Qu'ran 2:217: 'They question you (O Mohammed) with regard to warfare in the sacred month. Say: Warfare therein is a great transgression but to turn men from the way of Allah and to disbelieve in Him and the inviolable place of worship and to expel its people thence is a greater transgression, for persecution is worse than killing'

Fighting in the Sacred Month and Punishment for "murtad"- who turn back from Islam

2:217
They ask you about war in the Sacred Month. Tell them: "fighting in this month is a heinous offence; but to prevent from the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access and expel His worshippers from the Sacred Mosque is a more severe crime, since mischief is worse than killing in His sight. As for unbelievers: they will not cease fighting until they succeed in turning you back from your religion if they can; and if any of you turns back from his religion and dies as an unbeliever, his deeds will become void in this life and in the hereafter. He will be the inmate of hellfire, to live in there forever.

2:218
Surely those who are believers, and migrated and struggled in the path of Allah, they can hope for the mercy of Allah; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

 

[Bookofknowledge]

-Muhammad encouraged warfare (even for no other reason than the difference in religion):

Qu'ran 8:65: 'O Prophet exhort the believers to fight. If there be of you 20 steadfast, they will overcome 200 and if there be of you a 100, they shall overcome a 1000, because the disbelievers are a folk without intelligence'.

Qu'ran 8:67-68: 'It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. You desire the lure of this world and Allah desires for you the hereafter and Allah is Mighty, Wise.. Now enjoy what you have won as lawful and good and keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is forgiving, merciful.'

One should also research the oppression Muslims suffered before they migrated to other lands and until the verses to fight back was revealed.

Allah's promise to make the believers victorious over armies TWO to TEN times larger in quantity than believers

8:65
O Prophet! Rouse the believers to prepare for combat. If there are twenty steadfast among you, they shall vanquish two hundred: if there are one hundred they shall overcome one thousand of the unbelievers, for they are a people who lack understanding.

8:66
For now Allah is lightening your burden, because He knows that there are still some weak individuals among you, so if there are one hundred steadfast among you, they shall vanquish two hundred and if there be one thousand, they will overcome two thousand with the leave of Allah, for Allah is with those who are steadfast.

8:67
It is not fit for a Prophet that he should take prisoners of war until he has thoroughly subdued the land. Do you, O followers of Muhammad, desire the temporal goods of this world? While Allah desires for you the hereafter? Allah is Mighty, Wise.

8:68
Had there not been a previous sanction from Allah to take ransom, you should have been sternly punished for what you have taken.

8:69
Very well, enjoy the booty which you have taken, for it is lawful and pure, but in the future fear Allah. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

 

[Bookofknowledge]

-Muhammad encouraged torture:

Qur’an 9:5 “When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Proclamation to dissolve the "Treaty of Hudeybiyah"

9:1
A declaration of immunity from Allah and His Rasool is hereby made to those of the mushrikin with whom you have made a treaty:

9:2
"You have four months to go around in the land unmolested; but you should know that you cannot frustrate the will of Allah, and that Allah will humiliate the unbelievers."

9:3
This is a public proclamation from Allah and His Rasool to the people on the day of the Great Hajj (Pilgrimage) that Allah and His Rasool do hereby dissolve treaty obligations with the mushrikin. Therefore, if you repent, it will be better for you but if you turn away, then you should know that you cannot frustrate the Will of Allah. O Prophet, proclaim a painful punishment to those who are unbelievers.

9:4
Except (this proclamation does not apply to) those mushrikin who honored their treaties with you in every detail and aided none against you. So fulfill your treaties with them to the end of their term; for Allah loves the righteous.

9:5
When the forbidden months (10,11,12 &

9:6
If anyone from the mushrikin ask you for asylum, grant it to him so that he may hear the Word of Allah, and then escort him to his place of safety: this should be done because these people do not know the truth.

-Muhammad encouraged torture:

Qur’an 5:33 “The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Prophet and make mischief in the land, is to murder them, crucify them, or cut off a hand and foot on opposite sides...their doom is dreadful. They will not escape the fire, suffering constantly.”

Punishment of waging war against Allah and His Rasool

5:33
The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Rasool and strive to create mischief in the land is death or crucifixion or the cutting off their hands and feet from opposite sides or exile from the land based on the gravity of their offense. This will be their humiliation in this world and in the Hereafter they will have grievous punishment,

5:34
except those who repent before you apprehend them, in such a case, you should know that Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

 

[Bookofknowledge]

+Muhammad commanded the killing of Jews: these verses from Sunan of Abu Dawud are considered fabricated by Muslim scholars.

+Muhammad reviled the gods of the pagan Arabs, but approved the killing of people who criticized him: Muslim scholars consider this also forged.

give citation or reference

 

[corvus_corax]

YES

A Christians duty is to point out the truth to everyone. Jesus is the only way to the father, when you put your trust in him and not in fallible man you will see

Huh.
That's odd.
I thought it was your duty to spread the Good News. At least according to what Jesus said.
I see you tearing Islam apart, but no mention of the Good News

Odd that.

Perhaps you are confusing the duty that Jesus charged his followers with?

 

[Bookofknowledge]

+Moreover, by the Shari'a law, the modern Muslims are commanded to do the same: Islam approves the freedom of speech according to understanding of some Muslims (although I must say I don't see if this freedom is much practiced in Muslim countries).

Whatever is practiced by a person or a state who claim to be a muslim but doesn't abide by the law of Qur'aan and Teachings of Prophet has no right to point finger at Islam.

Its understandable and barable if A ruler adapts some restrictions based on the security reasons to secure and regulate the law of land but this does not mean one can regulate laws on muslims to indirectly restrict them from following their religion, such rulers fall under the category of oppressor.

4:1
O mankind! Have fear of your Rabb, the One who created you from a single soul, from that soul He created its mate, and through them He spread countless men and women. Fear Allah, the One in whose name you demand your rights from one another and the ties of relationship; surely Allah is watching you very closely.

 

[Bookofknowledge]

-Muhammad was a kidnapper:

Ishaq:313 “The Muslims told Abu Sufyan to pay them a ransom to free his son, Amr. He replied, ‘Am I to suffer the double loss of my blood and my money? After you have killed my son Hanzala, you want me to pay you a ransom to save Amr?’”

Ishaq? is this a hadith book?

 

[CZzyzx41]

"If one did what was good he will repent of not having done more, and if one did evil he will repent of not having restrained himself."

While this appears to be a law of everlasting guilt, I believe great happiness can be obtained therein. It explains clearly in one sentence my belief that I need to live in a constant state of repentance. Always asking forgiveness for doing evil and always striving to do more good. I would put this right next to the "golden rule".

 

[rasul]

Bookofknowledge, if you prefer, I will delete the allegations that I consider were successfully answered by you or others. vbmenu_register("postmenu_13988224", true);